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Posted: 6/19/2010 7:15:34 PM EDT
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I have a large stash of these 30-cal AP bullets that I've had for a while (sorry, not for sale). I was wondering if anyone here could help ID exactly what they are, how accurate I can expect them to be and if they're safe to shoot through my AR10 (chrome lined) without damaging it.
The bullets are 1.28in long and 150-151gr. The jacket attracts a magnet. The penetrator weighs 61gr, 1.122" long and .226" dia Here's a pic of the bullets and the steel penetrator (removed by cutting a slot down the side and melted out the lead) 
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They measure .308 diameter. Anyhow, I thought M955 was 5.56 ammo?
I found some pics online and the bullets seem to resemble FN AP rounds in shape, where the crimps are, and weights. However the penetrator in mine is very different from what's supposed to be in an FN AP around. Maybe they're a different year of FN?? |
What you have here are 7.62x51 NATO (.308 Winchester) M61 style AP bullets. Mostly loaded in FN and Israeli headstamped ammo, you will have no problem loading them into a a .308 Winchester case. Use caution though, unless you have access to the military TM showing this load, I'd consult a current reloading manual for a bullet of similiar weight. Muzzle velocity should be somewhere around 2700 fps. If I was home I could quote you the type power and weight charge, and muzzle velocity as well. Maybe tonight when I get home I will remember to look this up, or somebody else will chime in. Good bullets, I'd load some and shoot to check on accuracy and other factors, then either load em up for the rainy day or sit on them. Used to have a ton of these myself, but I've gotten out of reloading 7.62 NATO since I don't own the rifle anymore. Hope this helps! 
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Since your bullets lack the black tip that signifies M61 AP, perhaps they may be M59 Ball?
According to TM43-0001-27, both types are 1.28" long and weigh 150.5 grains. Powder charge / Velocity M59 Ball: 46gr WC 846 / 2750 fps @ 78 ft M61 AP: 41gr IMR 4475 / 2750 fps @ 78 ft |
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What T18B40 said. These are pulled AP from either FN or Israeli 7.62x51mm cartridges. My bet is Israel. The quality of the cannelures is typical of the Israeli AP I have seen. The lack of tip color indicates that these have been cleaned... I would not expect stellar accuracy from these, especially if they are surplus pulls which can be from many different lots all mixed together. If I were to load these, I would weigh each one and group them into lots by weight. I might also measure OAL and Diameter to further ensure consistency. The only thing you can not be sure of is how concentric the core is to the jacket. This will also have an effect on accuracy... Good luck.
1DD |
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I've shot a bunch of them from 308Win and 300WinMag.
Less than impressed with them because I was hoping that because they are newer they could match or surpass the performance of the M2 163grn AP bullet. It should be noted that I primarily played with them in the 300WinMag. Against mild steel plate I found that the cores of the M63 were failing to penetrate as well as the M2 163grn AP bullet. By failing to penetrate I mean failing to even bump the back side of the 1 1/4 inch steel plate much less get a sharp pointy tip to stick through. Something the M2 AP managed to do from the get go with my beginning load(eventually on the 3rd loading over starting I got a complete pass through at 100 yards). I was simply spanking the M63 bullet too hard for it to hold up, I suspect the core is not hardened to the same point as the M2 cores. The M2 AP is the higher quality core, if you can get them. I figure I was roughly 3200fps with the 163grn M2 and 3400fps with the 150grn M63. For 7.62Nato the M63 bullet isn't bad but the only reason I really would use it is because the M2 163 eats up case capacity quickly in the 7.62/308(very long bullet closer to that of a 190grn SMK). There's some speculation out there that the M2 bullet is likely to be the more accurate bullet as well. There's an interesting difference in construction. M2AP(both 50BMG and 30cal.) have lead sandwiched at the front of the core between the nose of the jacket and the nose of the steel core. The M63 round has the nose of the steel core butted up right under the nose of the jacket then there is lead sandwiched into the rear of the bullet between jacket/core. For those wondering about M995, from the FAS.org website it appears that the cores are truncated cone and I'm not sure there is any lead used inside the jacket ahead/behind the cores. |
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Quoted:
What T18B40 said. These are pulled AP from either FN or Israeli 7.62x51mm cartridges. My bet is Israel. Concur. After further checking I found a sectioned Israeli AP round. It's construction is different from M59 Ball and M61 AP. Photo at: http://iaaforum.org/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8796 |
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For those wondering about M995, from the FAS.org website it appears that the cores are truncated cone and I'm not sure there is any lead used inside the jacket ahead/behind the cores. There isn't. See photo of sectioned M993 at: http://iaaforum.org/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8718 |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
For those wondering about M995, from the FAS.org website it appears that the cores are truncated cone and I'm not sure there is any lead used inside the jacket ahead/behind the cores. There isn't. See photo of sectioned M993 at: http://iaaforum.org/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8718 Interesting little back alley of the internet there. Never heard of them, bookmarked for sure. |
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Quoted:
I have a large stash of these 30-cal AP bullets that I've had for a while (sorry, not for sale). I was wondering if anyone here could help ID exactly what they are, how accurate I can expect them to be and if they're safe to shoot through my AR10 (chrome lined) without damaging it. The bullets are 1.28in long and 150-151gr. The jacket attracts a magnet. The penetrator weighs 61gr, 1.122" long and .226" dia Here's a pic of the bullets and the steel penetrator (removed by cutting a slot down the side and melted out the lead) http://tom.pebkac.us/30cal_ap.jpg Your bullets appear to be Israeli 7.62x51mm AP bullets as shown below. They usually average approximately 151.5gr. and are of the same design as the FN 7.62x51mm AP bullet. Israeli 7.62x51mm AP (Top-Bottom): pulled bullet, hardened steel penetrator in jacket section, and NOS factory Israeli 7.62x51mm AP cartridge with TZ headstamp in Hebrew. The penetrator shown has had the normally very pointed tip ground off. 
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