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Posted: 4/6/2006 7:33:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/6/2006 7:35:39 AM EDT by brillo]
There's a thread in the Equipment Exchange in the Feedback forum regarding a gun deal gone bad between an AR15.com member and Ammoman. The thread began on March 11th and includes 554 posts on 12 pages as of this post. War and Peace, except for the Peace.

Briefly, the member purchased an SKS advertised by Ammoman as a Vietnam bringback, the member received the SKS, it was marked "Imported", member requested a return and refund, Ammoman offered a credit of $100, lengthy pissing match ensued, site staff got involved, Ammoman has been removed from AR15.com.

I received a bunch of emails and IMs suggesting/requesting/insisting Ammoman be removed from the Ammo Price List.

The active readers and participants in the Ammunition forum have a long history of working with a variety of dealers and your knowledge could help provide additional perspective and insight - if you feel like getting into it:

Screwed by Ammoman.com AKA Discount Distributors - pfinac

Ammoman in Ammo Price List? - brillo


Link Posted: 4/7/2006 3:08:45 PM EDT
There has been several piss poor situations due to ammoman here recently. Its like he sudenly didn't care anymore
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 3:44:50 PM EDT
1 bad deal and everyone jumps his ass? PLZ


Ive order from him back in 2001 and still do to this very day!


A bunch of New Guys who never even bought from Eric!
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 3:52:14 PM EDT
That's one bad deal that happens to be extremely blatant and unfair, with numerous chances to make right that haven't been taken advantage of..
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 3:56:54 PM EDT
I don't think it was the deal itself, but the dissatisfactory response when Site Staff inquired.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 4:28:51 PM EDT
read through the thread, he is not the only one to have a problem with ammoman.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 7:37:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/8/2006 2:29:52 PM EDT by bigkracka]
Yep, ammoman only has himself to blame and I'm glad he's gone from here. Don't let the door hit ya in the ass on the way out!
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 8:10:30 PM EDT
never ordered from him. stopped following the thread after 12...replies. if he did not come clean with a decent explanation, then he does not deserve the benefit of this site promoting him.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 8:27:38 PM EDT
Hey Brillo,

As I have said before, thank you for running your "Ammo Price List". I know that you have saved/help a lot of people spend their money buying ammo.

I know that "The Ammo Man" never did have the cheapest price - but to me did offor service and quality that as (to me) worth a prieum.

That being said - your price list is just that YOURS - you decide what that you want to do with it. You have my respect either way.

Thanks again,

Badredfish
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 8:48:43 PM EDT
Lets see, aparantly he knowingly and willingly screwed over members here on more than one occasion. I would say this forum owes its loyalties to the members, not a vendor who should be going WAY out of his way to keep a good name on THIS board considering the amount of eyes on it.
I see it as a no brainer. You ban members for a hell of a lot less but its your board/business.
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 12:11:17 AM EDT
The ammo price list is a wonderful resource and I think I can speak for us all when I say THANK YOU for keeping it up and so well.

I'd like to see his name removed, only because I think we should want to be patronizing ethical business, for the good of everyone.
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 7:58:39 AM EDT
Ammoman bad or good sells a lot of ammo. That said his pricing belongs in the ammo forum for comparison purposes. I have bought thousands of dollars of ammo & have nothing but good service from him.
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 8:27:51 AM EDT
Brillo, it's your call. It depends if you consider the price list a recommendation or a comparison tool. Just a thought, maybe you leave the prices for Ammoman in there but "unhot" his link. Thanks for the work you put into it.
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 9:12:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By brillo:
There's a thread in the Equipment Exchange in the Feedback forum regarding a gun deal gone bad between an AR15.com member and Ammoman. The thread began on March 11th and includes 554 posts on 12 pages as of this post. War and Peace, except for the Peace.

Briefly, the member purchased an SKS advertised by Ammoman as a Vietnam bringback, the member received the SKS, it was marked "Imported", member requested a return and refund, Ammoman offered a credit of $100, lengthy pissing match ensued, site staff got involved, Ammoman has been removed from AR15.com.

I received a bunch of emails and IMs suggesting/requesting/insisting Ammoman be removed from the Ammo Price List.

The active readers and participants in the Ammunition forum have a long history of working with a variety of dealers and your knowledge could help provide additional perspective and insight - if you feel like getting into it:

Screwed by Ammoman.com AKA Discount Distributors - pfinac

Ammoman in Ammo Price List? - brillo



BRILLO, absolutley the righgt course of action. Ammoman is NOT the only one on the ammunition price list that has had numerous complaints. Actually there are others that have had many more complaints. I remember a huge thread a few weeks ago about another vendor on the Ammo Price List. BUT THERE WAS NO DISCUSSION IIRC ABOUT THAT VENDOR BEING REMOVED.

I dont know if that particular vendor was a sponsor here, I dont think so. I do agree with booting Ammoman as a sponsor, but not from the ammo list. If you do boot him from the list, then you got a few more to boot too.

Booting him as a sponsor sets a good precedent. Booting from the ammo price list, NOT A GOOD PRECEDENT.
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 9:31:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ColSanders:
The ammo price list is a wonderful resource and I think I can speak for us all when I say THANK YOU for keeping it up and so well.

I'd like to see his name removed, only because I think we should want to be patronizing ethical business, for the good of everyone.




+1....Thanks Brillo for the work you put into the price list!
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 10:31:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/8/2006 11:21:41 AM EDT by jaymeister99]

Originally Posted By ColSanders:
The ammo price list is a wonderful resource and I think I can speak for us all when I say THANK YOU for keeping it up and so well.

I'd like to see his name removed, only because I think we should want to be patronizing ethical business, for the good of everyone.



Should all the vendors who have questionable ethics be removed from there? Are we only going to single out this one "unethical" vendor from the list? Who will decide what is unethical and what should constitute removal from the list? If everybody was polled here I would bet at least half of the vendors on that list have done something to piss off somebody here. And I know for a FACT that Ammoman is not the only vendor here to screw somebody.

The ammo list isnt only used as a resource to get the cheapest ammo. Its also used to see the supply, price changes, price comparison, and probably a few other different reasons for different people. I say leave Ammoman on there, and add the disclosure/link that Brillo is doing.
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 1:34:07 PM EDT
I guess some poeple on this site would look the other way no matter what the offense was for some cheap ammo. Those are the same ones who would smile to your face and stab you in the back as you turned to walk away.
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 2:12:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jaymeister99:

Originally Posted By ColSanders:
The ammo price list is a wonderful resource and I think I can speak for us all when I say THANK YOU for keeping it up and so well.

I'd like to see his name removed, only because I think we should want to be patronizing ethical business, for the good of everyone.



Should all the vendors who have questionable ethics be removed from there? Are we only going to single out this one "unethical" vendor from the list? Who will decide what is unethical and what should constitute removal from the list? If everybody was polled here I would bet at least half of the vendors on that list have done something to piss off somebody here. And I know for a FACT that Ammoman is not the only vendor here to screw somebody.

The ammo list isnt only used as a resource to get the cheapest ammo. Its also used to see the supply, price changes, price comparison, and probably a few other different reasons for different people. I say leave Ammoman on there, and add the disclosure/link that Brillo is doing.



One or two bad transactions isn't enough to kick someone I would guess. In the case with ammoman, he has screwed people time and time again. He's proven he doesn't want our business. He is not apologetic, he won't even speak for himself.

Notice how after the latest incident with the SKS, people were coming out of the woodwork like crazy saying, "Yeah I got screwed by ammoman too but when I complained everyone told me to STFU".
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 2:40:31 PM EDT
My prediction............


This too will pass.
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 4:13:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/8/2006 5:24:34 PM EDT by mjm1]
Suggest you keep Ammoman in the price list, with the disclaimer. Monitor the feed back section re ammo sales for 6 months or a year, and see if AMMO sales are becoming more or less problematic for members. Then decide. Kind of like probation. JMO.

ETA: Brillo, your price list is a great resource. Thanks for that. I have ordered a lot from Ammoman, and there was only one screw up. Although he was rude about it, he did offer a discount on my next order, which I took advantage of.
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 4:50:24 PM EDT
I've ordered ammo from Ammoman before and never had issues, but Eric can be a jerk. I asked him some pretty simple questions on a thread here a few months ago about one of his products, and you'd have thought I called his sister an ugly whore by the way he reacted.

No loss as far as I'm concerned. Might as well leave him on the price list, though, as a comparison.
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 4:58:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FMJ:
1 bad deal and everyone jumps his ass? PLZ


Ive order from him back in 2001 and still do to this very day!


A bunch of New Guys who never even bought from Eric!



Integrity is everything.
On this board, in a community, in life.

If you don't have it, then you should be banned from associating with those of us that do.

Goodbye Ammoman
.
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 5:03:56 PM EDT
Prices are prices. Why not just give him an asterisk (*) ?

Link Posted: 4/8/2006 5:19:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/8/2006 5:20:44 PM EDT by jaymeister99]
Heres something I learned about every story regarding a "disagreement"...

Theres always three sides to a story. One persons, the others, and somewhere inbetween is the truth.

I cant count how many posts I heard about people praising Ammoman. Until this week I had NEVER seen a bad post about him, I CANNOT say that about most of the others on that list.

Why arent we talking about booting a few others from the list? Amazing how so many people can jump on the bandwagon here without knowing jack.

There are only two people here who know exactly what happened, the rest of us are all on the sidelines.
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 5:35:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 5:51:27 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 8:41:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By skytrooper78:
Ammoman bad or good sells a lot of ammo. That said his pricing belongs in the ammo forum for comparison purposes. I have bought thousands of dollars of ammo & have nothing but good service from him.


+1

It sucks what happened, but I've never had a problem and his ammo prices are great if you're on the west coast.

I would like to see the situation resolved, but I will continue to buy from him as long as he beats other prices.
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 8:01:53 AM EDT
I think he should be left on the price list, but it should also be noted he was banned from the EE.
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 8:09:43 AM EDT
The man works hard but his customer service SUCKS. Check the Alaska page and you will see that he has ruffled a few fethers. I had a bad dealing with him regarding m14 magazines and his reply E-mail more that pissed me off and caused a lot more people to be pissed off.

Ammoman has changed and is on the decline as far as customer service is. I would realy question if I would want someone back that has and is pissing so many people off.

Plus if he is selling something he should back it 100%

Link Posted: 4/9/2006 8:33:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jaymeister99:
Heres something I learned about every story regarding a "disagreement"...

Theres always three sides to a story. One persons, the others, and somewhere inbetween is the truth.

I cant count how many posts I heard about people praising Ammoman. Until this week I had NEVER seen a bad post about him, I CANNOT say that about most of the others on that list.

Why arent we talking about booting a few others from the list? Amazing how so many people can jump on the bandwagon here without knowing jack.

There are only two people here who know exactly what happened, the rest of us are all on the sidelines.



I believe the reason why you dont hear people coming out and posting their horror stories is because of how the board works. If you left a bad remark about ammoman.com you would get flamed here.. that was then and this is now. Since more and more people have been coming out telling their stories, it is obvious his customer service has gone down to the shitters. I guess some people just dont care as long as they get their ammo.
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 8:38:28 AM EDT
I think he should be removed from the price list, and if I was new to the forum and saw him listed
I would perceive this to be an endorsement by the websight. It's easy to say I never had any problems before with a merchant and continue to support them until you get hosed. if it were me I would choose to support the members, but that's my 2 cents.


Link Posted: 4/9/2006 1:56:32 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 2:40:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/9/2006 2:43:10 PM EDT by brillo]
From the last comment in the Feedback Forum thread:

Thanks to all for adding your comments and suggestions.

I've added the following to the price list, based on a post by Nivuahc [Feedback Forum reply], above:


NOTE:
Inclusion on this price list is not an endorsement
of a particular dealer by AR15.com.
As with any transaction, it is in the buyers best interest
to search the Feedback Forum for information
about any dealer prior to initiating a transaction.




Within the next week I'll add an additional link for each individual dealer to their respective post in the feedback forum if one is available.

Based on the relevant publicly-available facts on the "Screwed by Ammoman" thread I can't justify removing Ammoman from the Ammo Price List.

pfinac has declined to elaborate on the Site Staff/Ammoman discussions, AR15.com Site Staff is maintaining the confidentiality of their conversations, and Site Staff has noted that Ammoman has retained a lawyer to handle the matter.
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 2:47:34 PM EDT
Thanks brillo, I think you did the right thing.
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 2:48:31 PM EDT
Once again, nobody is held responsible for their actions. A true liberal response.
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 3:52:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By VanekSF1:
Once again, nobody is held responsible for their actions. A true liberal response.



Run your own pricelist.
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 4:29:39 PM EDT
Chokkio
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 4:48:06 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 7:25:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By VanekSF1:
Once again, nobody is held responsible for their actions. A true liberal response.



That's a bit of a reach. He got hammered here, and the feedback and exposure will cost him business.
I'd rather have his prices stay for camparison.
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 11:12:05 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 12:57:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By VanekSF1:
Chokkio



Sorry. I don't speak arabic.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 4:28:07 AM EDT
Nothing more for me to add. Since this is a technical forum, please lock.

Discussion continues in the Feedback Forum at Screwed by Ammoman.com
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 4:30:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/10/2006 5:05:07 AM EDT by Hokie]
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 5:00:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By brillo:

NOTE:
Inclusion on this price list is not an endorsement
of a particular dealer by AR15.com.
As with any transaction, it is in the buyers best interest
to search the Feedback Forum for information
about any dealer prior to initiating a transaction.




I think it should also have a Warning... Buyer beware or the like. Just my .02

In before the lock

David
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 5:14:44 AM EDT
give him the boot--
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