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Posted: 3/15/2006 2:54:18 PM EDT
This might be a silly idea but I got to thinking, if Wolf ammo is so substandard and underpowered and prone to this or that problem and not practical for SHTF dependability, why do so many armies around the world depend on it for fighting wars? Unless I am mistaken, I would assume that any army fielding a 7.62 or 5.45 standard issue rifle would be using Wolf ammo among other brands. Of course, I've never seen an AK choke on any ammo of any kind.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 3:01:07 PM EDT
All wolf is bad dont use it
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 3:03:19 PM EDT
go back to the GD

(not you shadow, I'm talking to FMJ)
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 3:09:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FMJ:
All wolf is bad dont use it

Link Posted: 3/15/2006 3:14:07 PM EDT
Sorry- to give a bit of info- wolf is just an importer, one of the places that manufactures wolf is in russia (can't recall the plant name now...starts with a L I think) so yeah, a lot of eastern Euro places probably do use ammo that is made in the same factory as wolf...
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 3:29:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/15/2006 3:35:37 PM EDT by FMJ]


Im not a wolf basher just kidding

my bushy hasnt choke yet? close to 2000rds! it acts like a AK
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 3:33:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ShadowCompany:
This might be a silly idea but I got to thinking, if Wolf ammo is so substandard and underpowered and prone to this or that problem and not practical for SHTF dependability, why do so many armies around the world depend on it for fighting wars? Unless I am mistaken, I would assume that any army fielding a 7.62 or 5.45 standard issue rifle would be using Wolf ammo among other brands. Of course, I've never seen an AK choke on any ammo of any kind.



Wolf is the importer. The ammo is manufactured at the Tula Arsenal in Russia. Tula is generally accepted along with the Izsevh (not sure about the spelling) as the better arms and cartridge manufacturing in the former Eastern Block. But keep in mind that Wolf is NOT mil spec ammo, and the ammo that Tula is so famous for was made for 7.62X39, 5.45x39, and 7.62x54 and not for 5.56 NATO.

This ammo was also made for a completely different rifle than the AR/M16. Try shooting their 7.62 ammo through an AK, you can shoot just about anything through that gun without worrying about a jam up. The AR/M16 isnt designed to accept loads of different crap ammo.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 4:43:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ShadowCompany:
This might be a silly idea but I got to thinking, if Wolf ammo is so substandard and underpowered and prone to this or that problem and not practical for SHTF dependability, why do so many armies around the world depend on it for fighting wars? Unless I am mistaken, I would assume that any army fielding a 7.62 or 5.45 standard issue rifle would be using Wolf ammo among other brands. Of course, I've never seen an AK choke on any ammo of any kind.



Please show me where anyone said Wolf in 7.62x39 or 5.45x39 is underpowered? Those comments are typically referring to the .223 product, and very factual.

Also - you understand the exact same ammo made for commercial export/import may not be the same spec as what is made under a military contract? Federal makes all kinda of ammo - only some are destined for the battlefield.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 4:54:28 PM EDT
I've put 500 rounds of it through my SKS, no problems. I prefer Silver Bear, though the new polymer coating on Wolf is a lot better than the old lacquer. Both are dirty, but the SKS doesn't care.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 5:56:52 PM EDT
Maybe, but my AR likes it just fine.


Originally Posted By jaymeister99:

Originally Posted By ShadowCompany:
This might be a silly idea but I got to thinking, if Wolf ammo is so substandard and underpowered and prone to this or that problem and not practical for SHTF dependability, why do so many armies around the world depend on it for fighting wars? Unless I am mistaken, I would assume that any army fielding a 7.62 or 5.45 standard issue rifle would be using Wolf ammo among other brands. Of course, I've never seen an AK choke on any ammo of any kind.



Wolf is the importer. The ammo is manufactured at the Tula Arsenal in Russia. Tula is generally accepted along with the Izsevh (not sure about the spelling) as the better arms and cartridge manufacturing in the former Eastern Block. But keep in mind that Wolf is NOT mil spec ammo, and the ammo that Tula is so famous for was made for 7.62X39, 5.45x39, and 7.62x54 and not for 5.56 NATO.

This ammo was also made for a completely different rifle than the AR/M16. Try shooting their 7.62 ammo through an AK, you can shoot just about anything through that gun without worrying about a jam up. The AR/M16 isnt designed to accept loads of different crap ammo.

Link Posted: 3/15/2006 6:03:12 PM EDT
damn- Tula thats right. I guess I just made up that whole 'L' thing....
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 7:57:40 PM EDT
I don't know about wolf, but the French legionaire's that we shot with used steel cased ammo in their FAMAS's...
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 8:11:08 PM EDT
If it comes down to it, Wolf is better than nothing.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 8:19:25 PM EDT
Enough said, now lets move on.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 4:18:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ShadowCompany:
How many armies rely on Wolf ammo?



The ARFCOM Army ?

I can't believe no one has said "87 armies" yet

Another question for you;

Q.) Where does the new Russian Federation keep it's armies ?



A.) Up it's sleevies
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 6:44:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/16/2006 6:51:32 AM EDT by ShadowCompany]
Originally Posted By FALARAK:


Please show me where anyone said Wolf in 7.62x39 or 5.45x39 is underpowered?

By underpowered I mean chrono reports of .223. For some reason no one seems to care what 7.62 or 5.45 chronos from one batch or brand to another as long as it goes bang.

Also - you understand the exact same ammo made for commercial export/import may not be the same spec as what is made under a military contract? Federal makes all kinda of ammo - only some are destined for the battlefield.

Exactly. What are the differences, if any, between the imported Wolf ammo and Russian milspec?

Link Posted: 3/16/2006 6:55:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/16/2006 6:57:40 AM EDT by FALARAK]

Originally Posted By ShadowCompany:

Originally Posted By FALARAK:


Please show me where anyone said Wolf in 7.62x39 or 5.45x39 is underpowered?



By underpowered I mean chrono reports of .223. For some reason no one seems to care what 7.62 or 5.45 chronos from one batch to another as long as it goes bang.



Well, you didnt state that, and then mentioned the other two calibers.

The reason people dont care as much about velocities of 7.62x39 and 5.45x39, is they do not depend on fragmentation as part of their terminal ballistics, which is totally dependent on velocity. So if those other two calibers are off by a couple hundred FPS, it doesnt make a huge difference.



Also - you understand the exact same ammo made for commercial export/import may not be the same spec as what is made under a military contract? Federal makes all kinda of ammo - only some are destined for the battlefield.


Exactly. What are the differences, if any, between the imported Wolf ammo and Russian milspec?



I couldn't tell ya, since all we get is commercial imports for the most part. When we do see milsurp 7.62x39 come in, we never really hear any chrono differences.... probably because most people dont care. Especially since those rounds are not as velocity dependent.... and because of their tapered casing, and action design, HIGHLY reliable.

5.56 is a completely different cartridge, which gets maximum efficiency from having a correctly designed fragmenting projectile, and enough velocity to cause said fragmentation. Without both of those equations.... it becomes a susbstandard round. This is the complaint of Wolf steel cased ammo - neither the projectile nor the velocity are up to the task. Still, fantastic training ammo if your gun will run on it.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 7:16:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/16/2006 7:17:35 AM EDT by ShadowCompany]

Originally Posted By FALARAK:


The reason people dont care as much about velocities of 7.62x39 and 5.45x39, is they do not depend on fragmentation as part of their terminal ballistics, which is totally dependent on velocity. So if those other two calibers are off by a couple hundred FPS, it doesnt make a huge difference.





Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't 5.45X39 depend heavily on fragmentation? But because it's a hollow point round it fragments better than .223? I know it has more yaw than .223 so it seems to me this would be a superior round if terminal ballistics were all you cared about.

Link Posted: 3/16/2006 7:22:41 AM EDT
Nevermind
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 7:24:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/16/2006 9:52:48 AM EDT by FALARAK]

Originally Posted By ShadowCompany:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't 5.45X39 depend heavily on fragmentation?



Not according to the testing I have read. In tissue and gel, the common 5.45x39 projectiles did not fragment.


But because it's a hollow point round it fragments better than .223?


No - hollow points *may* assist in expansion of a given round, but you cannot assume they will assist in fragmentation. Not all hollow poing projectiles are actually designed to expand. Some are a side effect of the bullet manufacturing process, and some are just for looks.


I know it has more yaw than .223 so it seems to me this would be a superior round if terminal ballistics were all you cared about.


Gotta do the research. There is a lot more to terminal ballistics than yaw. Here is some good reading on the 5.45x39

www.btammolabs.com/fackler/ak74_wounding_potential.pdf

www.btammolabs.com/fackler/wounding_patterns_military_rifles.pdf

www.btammolabs.com/fackler/wounding_mechanism_projectile_shape.pdf

Link Posted: 3/16/2006 7:46:01 AM EDT
Wolf 7.62x39 is fairly underpowered compared to "mil-spec" 7.62x39
I think they were chronographing 2100-2200 fps with Wolf, while 2400+ w/ Barnaul.
Barnual 7.62x39, is loaded "hot" and much much more accurate than Wolf 7.62x39 at least with my Vepr.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 9:45:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By metroplex:
Wolf 7.62x39 is fairly underpowered compared to "mil-spec" 7.62x39
I think they were chronographing 2100-2200 fps with Wolf, while 2400+ w/ Barnaul.
Barnual 7.62x39, is loaded "hot" and much much more accurate than Wolf 7.62x39 at least with my Vepr.



Barnaul is better stuff than Wolf.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 9:51:23 AM EDT
I bought only a small stash of Barnaul back when they were more available than Wolf and Winchester put together, and at 7-8 cents a round I shoulda/coulda/woulda bought several thousand had I known it would be so long before we saw anymore.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 1:31:20 PM EDT
Being that Wolf is a distributor not a manufacture, there isn't a country that uses Wolf manufactured ammo for thier military. Russia has the capacity to make .223/5.56 rounds because of the Cold War. Russian manufactured millions of rounds of 5.56 55grn FMJ's which were laqured coated and stored for use in NATO weapons. What became of these rounds is unknown, though people have said they have been subsequently repackaged and sold to civilians. The manufactures whose products Wolf distributes make ammo for militaries, though usually not 5.56 more commonly 5.45 or 7.62 M43. I imagine some Eastern European nations which use 5.56


AK's or other weapons in any capacity most likely use ammo manufactured by some of Wolf's partners. Since the "underpowered" allegation is only really viable against .223 rounds, it has no bearing on 7.62x39 or 5.45x39, both of which aren't as velocity dependant as .223. Wolf ammo also has an unusually thick jacket which precludes fragmentation, in addition to lower velcoity which makes for a poor defensive bullet. In 7.62x39/5.45x39, Wolf is some of the best "milspec" type ammo availible. Eastern European nations certainly use ammunition in this caliber manufactured by Wolf's associates. While stockpiling Wolf .223 isn't a great idea, stocking up on the Russian calibers is. Wolf ammo is excellent fodder for your AK's.
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 4:20:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:
damn- Tula thats right. I guess I just made up that whole 'L' thing....



"Tula" does have an "L" in it.

Seydou
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 6:28:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/18/2006 9:23:23 AM EDT by King_of_All_Tyrants]
I'll basically echo what's said above.

Wolf is a US company. It imports its ammo - to it's own specifications, not necessarily to military specifications - from at the very least Tula arsenal, and now the Yugoslavian cartidge company for its M193. It caters to the US civlian and to some degree LE market.

NOWHERE in any of its advertisements does it say that its ammunition is military spec (save for the M193, which we'd assume is milspec by its name). We know the 55 and 62 gr. .223 is NOT US or NATO spec. I wouldn't be surprised if the 9mm isn't. We don't know at all if the 7.62 and 5.45 are to Soviet mil specs (does Wolf 5.45 have the space in the tip? If not, then it's prob. not Soviet military spec).

I really don't see any reason why they need adhere to NATO or Soviet military specifications when they order ammo from the factory. If I were them I'd load down even the 7.62 or 5.45 ammo by 1-200 fps.

The only army that I could possibly see that might use Wolf - save for some army which mysteriously chooses to buy its ammo through a California company - would be insurgents or drug traffickers who'd order 10K round lots up here and smuggle them to wherever they're fighting.


Note that this "is it mil-spec?" question really has nothing to do with the "should I feed Wolf to my AK, SIG 9mm, AR, or any other compatible firearm?" question.
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 6:35:06 AM EDT
I like the 7.62 X 39 round but there's no way in hell would I buy ammo from the same country (& Plant) that supplied ammo to Iraq. That same ammo is kelling our troups. Our government has its head up its ass for allowing it to come into this country. To top it off the State Departmentr will not allow U.S, manufactures to sell to Russia for fear they will sell it to countires not friendly to America.
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 8:17:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By kalwasart:
I like the 7.62 X 39 round but there's no way in hell would I buy ammo from the same country (& Plant) that supplied ammo to Iraq. That same ammo is kelling our troups. Our government has its head up its ass for allowing it to come into this country. To top it off the State Departmentr will not allow U.S, manufactures to sell to Russia for fear they will sell it to countires not friendly to America.



Link Posted: 3/18/2006 12:45:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FALARAK:

Originally Posted By kalwasart:
I like the 7.62 X 39 round but there's no way in hell would I buy ammo from the same country (& Plant) that supplied ammo to Iraq. That same ammo is kelling our troups. Our government has its head up its ass for allowing it to come into this country. To top it off the State Departmentr will not allow U.S, manufactures to sell to Russia for fear they will sell it to countires not friendly to America.






Exactly, well said.


Link Posted: 3/18/2006 1:51:28 PM EDT
How many people here are going to say "well all I have is some Wolf so I guess I am going to give up" if SHTF????? NOT ME! If it shoots 4 moa or better at 100, and never jams in your gun, it will do.
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 2:58:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AKJEFF:
How many people here are going to say "well all I have is some Wolf so I guess I am going to give up" if SHTF????? NOT ME! If it shoots 4 moa or better at 100, and never jams in your gun, it will do.



I just shot some Wolf today at the range, and some of the Guatamalan I got a few years ago. I now have a new view on both of these.

My gun is a CMP model and is very picky about what ammo will work in it. Today the first 60 rounds of Guatemalan worked fine, then the next 20 in a row failed to extract. So then I went and bought some Wolf. Went 20 rounds without a single jam up. Last time I used Wolf I couldnt get one round to feed.

But last time using Wolf it was about 4 years ago, the old Lacquer coated crap. The newer Polymer stuff worked awesome. It even grouped better than the Federal AE I shot the same day, and better the Guatemalan too.
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 3:04:25 PM EDT
When you say "CMP" model does that mean a NATO spec chamber, or otherwise?
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 3:58:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FALARAK:
When you say "CMP" model does that mean a NATO spec chamber, or otherwise?



Ive gotten conflicting reports on the chamber spec, even from the manufacturer DPMS. According to them it is a NATO spec chamber but tighter. I still dont understadn how that can be. But I do know that it seems to be tighter, which I would think makes it a 223.

Either way most hotter ammo works good, like M855 or M193 spec, except now for the Guatemalan. I tried Radway Green 5.56 in it for the first time today, worked good, first shot failed to extract, rest shot good. Federal AE shoots good. New Wolf shot amazing, grouped great.

But SB, S&B, PMC, PMP, Remington, and older WWB jam right up. Usually failures to extract. Now with the Guatemalan having problems (never had probs before), Im starting to think its an extractor problem, got to try out a D-fender.
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 4:22:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/18/2006 4:23:48 PM EDT by CB1]
The Bangor Special Operations Group/Southern Expeditionary Force uses Wolf Ammunition exclusively.
It is in their charter.

It is well documented that Wolf .223 62gr and Wolf .30 Cal Carbine eliminates most species of the undead and their ilk.
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 4:24:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CB1:
The Bangor Special Operations Group/Southern Expeditionary Force uses Wolf Ammunition exclusively.
It is in their charter.

It is well documented that Wolf .223 62gr and Wolf .30 Cal Carbine elimates most speices of the undead and their ilk.



What?
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 4:30:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/18/2006 4:32:09 PM EDT by BSOG1]
YES
IT HAS BEEN APPROVED BY ALL COMMANDS
FOR USE IN ALL OPERATIONS.
BANGOR SPEC OPERATIONS/SOUTHERN EXPITIONARY FORCE PERSONEL

AND ALSO 7.62X39 AND 7.62X51 ALL APPROVED !!!!
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 4:39:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jaymeister99:

Originally Posted By CB1:
The Bangor Special Operations Group/Southern Expeditionary Force uses Wolf Ammunition exclusively.
It is in their charter.

It is well documented that Wolf .223 62gr and Wolf .30 Cal Carbine elimates most speices of the undead and their ilk.



What?



Don't worry about it, if I told everybody, spy zombie commandos would know our secrets...
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 4:42:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jaymeister99:

Originally Posted By FALARAK:
When you say "CMP" model does that mean a NATO spec chamber, or otherwise?



Ive gotten conflicting reports on the chamber spec, even from the manufacturer DPMS. According to them it is a NATO spec chamber but tighter. I still dont understadn how that can be. But I do know that it seems to be tighter, which I would think makes it a 223.

Either way most hotter ammo works good, like M855 or M193 spec, except now for the Guatemalan. I tried Radway Green 5.56 in it for the first time today, worked good, first shot failed to extract, rest shot good. Federal AE shoots good. New Wolf shot amazing, grouped great.

But SB, S&B, PMC, PMP, Remington, and older WWB jam right up. Usually failures to extract. Now with the Guatemalan having problems (never had probs before), Im starting to think its an extractor problem, got to try out a D-fender.



Well, anytime you have a chamber that is not NATO spec (DPMS used SAAMI chambers for years) you shouldnt fire .mil pressure ammo in it - popped primers and FTE's will be common.
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 4:48:02 PM EDT
yes beware all zombies
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 7:02:04 PM EDT
I know that the Afghan National Army and Afghan National Police use wolf comercial, the same shit we buy over here. Blew my mind the first time I saw that. Works well though, and alot of its through 50 yr old milled russian guns.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 5:12:08 AM EDT
+1 for wolf

if it'll fit it'll fire
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 5:41:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 30calTBLkid:
I know that the Afghan National Army and Afghan National Police use wolf comercial, the same shit we buy over here. Blew my mind the first time I saw that. Works well though, and alot of its through 50 yr old milled russian guns.



Yeah, but if that right then its being shot in an AK. Totally different ball game. Theres versions of the AR that will shoot Wolf flawlessly, but in an AK you can shoot just about anything and it will shoot fine. That gun is amazing when it comes to reliability.

I know somebody is going to chime in about the AR being just as reliable or better now. Perhaps, with the right combination of mags, ammo, and maintenance it can be. But the AK, you can dirty it up, leave it out in the rain, never clean it and it will still go bang with any kind of crap ammo you can get your hands on.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 5:45:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FALARAK:

Originally Posted By jaymeister99:

Originally Posted By FALARAK:
When you say "CMP" model does that mean a NATO spec chamber, or otherwise?



Ive gotten conflicting reports on the chamber spec, even from the manufacturer DPMS. According to them it is a NATO spec chamber but tighter. I still dont understadn how that can be. But I do know that it seems to be tighter, which I would think makes it a 223.

Either way most hotter ammo works good, like M855 or M193 spec, except now for the Guatemalan. I tried Radway Green 5.56 in it for the first time today, worked good, first shot failed to extract, rest shot good. Federal AE shoots good. New Wolf shot amazing, grouped great.

But SB, S&B, PMC, PMP, Remington, and older WWB jam right up. Usually failures to extract. Now with the Guatemalan having problems (never had probs before), Im starting to think its an extractor problem, got to try out a D-fender.



Well, anytime you have a chamber that is not NATO spec (DPMS used SAAMI chambers for years) you shouldnt fire .mil pressure ammo in it - popped primers and FTE's will be common.



According to DPMS is is a NATO chamber, and strangely enough all the M193 Ive shot in worked flawlessly (except for the recent Guatemalan probs), and all M855 Ive shot in it has been flawless. But I cant say the same for SS109 like SB and Radway.

But I have a newfound affinity for Wolf now! Im going to try it out from now on. Better accuracy than XM193, Federal AE, Radway, and Winchester M855 for a lot less $$$.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 7:03:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 30calTBLkid:
I know that the Afghan National Army and Afghan National Police use wolf comercial, the same shit we buy over here. Blew my mind the first time I saw that. Works well though, and alot of its through 50 yr old milled russian guns.



That explains where all of our ammo went.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 9:40:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jaymeister99:

Originally Posted By 30calTBLkid:
I know that the Afghan National Army and Afghan National Police use wolf comercial, the same shit we buy over here. Blew my mind the first time I saw that. Works well though, and alot of its through 50 yr old milled russian guns.



Yeah, but if that right then its being shot in an AK. Totally different ball game. Theres versions of the AR that will shoot Wolf flawlessly, but in an AK you can shoot just about anything and it will shoot fine. That gun is amazing when it comes to reliability.

I know somebody is going to chime in about the AR being just as reliable or better now. Perhaps, with the right combination of mags, ammo, and maintenance it can be. But the AK, you can dirty it up, leave it out in the rain, never clean it and it will still go bang with any kind of crap ammo you can get your hands on.





You wouldnt believe the condition some of those weapons are in. I was on operations with those guys and you pull their weapons down and they're caked with dirt and cosmoline so bad that you have to chisel it out of the bolt. And they still fucking run like a top. One of the buddies I made had a milled russian weapon made in 1952 that had no finish on the outside, but looked brand new on the inside. Thang was swwweeett.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 9:42:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By metroplex:

Originally Posted By 30calTBLkid:
I know that the Afghan National Army and Afghan National Police use wolf comercial, the same shit we buy over here. Blew my mind the first time I saw that. Works well though, and alot of its through 50 yr old milled russian guns.



That explains where all of our ammo went.



I started seeing that about 2 months before I started hearing about "the great wolf ammo shortage of '05". Too bad we couldn't bring any back with us.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 10:03:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/19/2006 10:03:54 AM EDT by FALARAK]
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 10:23:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 30calTBLkid:

Originally Posted By jaymeister99:

Originally Posted By 30calTBLkid:
I know that the Afghan National Army and Afghan National Police use wolf comercial, the same shit we buy over here. Blew my mind the first time I saw that. Works well though, and alot of its through 50 yr old milled russian guns.



Yeah, but if that right then its being shot in an AK. Totally different ball game. Theres versions of the AR that will shoot Wolf flawlessly, but in an AK you can shoot just about anything and it will shoot fine. That gun is amazing when it comes to reliability.

I know somebody is going to chime in about the AR being just as reliable or better now. Perhaps, with the right combination of mags, ammo, and maintenance it can be. But the AK, you can dirty it up, leave it out in the rain, never clean it and it will still go bang with any kind of crap ammo you can get your hands on.





You wouldnt believe the condition some of those weapons are in. I was on operations with those guys and you pull their weapons down and they're caked with dirt and cosmoline so bad that you have to chisel it out of the bolt. And they still fucking run like a top. One of the buddies I made had a milled russian weapon made in 1952 that had no finish on the outside, but looked brand new on the inside. Thang was swwweeett.



I read an article where a Spetznas guy from A-stan (back in the 80s) said they never cleaned their AKs because it would just get dirty again from the sand.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 10:35:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By metroplex:

Originally Posted By 30calTBLkid:

Originally Posted By jaymeister99:

Originally Posted By 30calTBLkid:
I know that the Afghan National Army and Afghan National Police use wolf comercial, the same shit we buy over here. Blew my mind the first time I saw that. Works well though, and alot of its through 50 yr old milled russian guns.



Yeah, but if that right then its being shot in an AK. Totally different ball game. Theres versions of the AR that will shoot Wolf flawlessly, but in an AK you can shoot just about anything and it will shoot fine. That gun is amazing when it comes to reliability.

I know somebody is going to chime in about the AR being just as reliable or better now. Perhaps, with the right combination of mags, ammo, and maintenance it can be. But the AK, you can dirty it up, leave it out in the rain, never clean it and it will still go bang with any kind of crap ammo you can get your hands on.





You wouldnt believe the condition some of those weapons are in. I was on operations with those guys and you pull their weapons down and they're caked with dirt and cosmoline so bad that you have to chisel it out of the bolt. And they still fucking run like a top. One of the buddies I made had a milled russian weapon made in 1952 that had no finish on the outside, but looked brand new on the inside. Thang was swwweeett.



I read an article where a Spetznas guy from A-stan (back in the 80s) said they never cleaned their AKs because it would just get dirty again from the sand.




I didn't really have a problem with the sand. I was mostly in the mountains near the eastern border. Lots of dust though, about like west or far south Texas. However, I don't know that I would copy andthing the russkies did over there. From the amount of equipment and ord laying around, they appear to have gotten thier asses whipped fairly soundly. They did a good job of screwing up the landscape before they left though.
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