Quoted: Quoted: I wiped down all the rounds with FP10 prior to putting them all on stripper clips. I have been putting the best of this on stripper clips for long term storage also.  Is FP10 safe to use on the ammo without weakening the brass or hurting the primers?  I would think anything marketed as a bore cleaner might have some type of copper solvent included, but don't know anything about FP10.

It says on the bottle that it "lubricates, cleans , protects, but as it was only wiped across I personally do not see any long term affects. I would like to see if anyone else could chime in on this though?

It won't hurt the brass, but if it were me I wouldnt wipe any around the primer. I use Corrosionx
for firearms and I know that they warn you not to get it near the primers as it can penetrate and work it's way through the sealant around the primer. I took a little fine bronze wool I bought from Brownells and cleaned off some of the  tarnished rounds of my Guat and then put them in ammo cans and then threw in a couple of those rust preventitive vapor tabs in the boxes.

BD

Just got back from the range, put 90rnds through my Bushy, this was the slightly tarnished lot I had seperated for range use. I have to say I'm extremely happy with my purchase and look to buy more when I have some additional cash.

Quoted: AIM is one of the best companies I've ever dealt with, period.

+1

I don't care what any of you say, I'm not spending a dime on any of their Guatemalan stuff.
But I DID order another case of their South African 7.62 last Friday.



AIM- good prices. Great service.

just shot 300rds, just the tarnished stuff, was trying to sight in a new scope, seemed as accurate as the Lake City PD stuff i had, but its smells like cat pee when shot.   That reminds me, i hate cats...

Quoted: Quoted: AIM is one of the best companies I've ever dealt with, period. +1

+2. I have always found them to be the most helpful and polite purveyors of firearms, supplies and ammo I have ever dealt with.

The phone people are EXCELLENT!!! ALWAYS gets my orders correct.

Got out to the range today to try the Guat 5.56mm.  I ran 240 rounds with no cleaning or lube.  Aside from the luck of the draw on the awful looks and corrosion this stuff is great.  Ran 100% in my rifle.  I was able to make standing head-shots all day long at 50yds and the same at 100yds from a rest.  A little worse than my Q3131A but better than Wolf .223 loads.

Chrono Data

16" M4gery:  Chrome BM Barrel, RRA Upper/Carrier/Bolt/Stock, Stag Lower.

Temp: 58F
Elevation: 800(ish)ft

Lo - 2994
Hi - 3072
Avg - 3038
ES - 78.28
SD - 25.31

So it's not as hot as XM-193 or Q3131A.  Both of those chrono out at about 3090 from my rifle.  It shoots the same point of impact though and it looks to be reloadable brass as well.  I may have to risk a few more battle packs.

Quoted: I have been putting the best of this on stripper clips for long term storage also.  Is FP10 safe to use on the ammo without weakening the brass or hurting the primers?  I would think anything marketed as a bore cleaner might have some type of copper solvent included, but don't know anything about FP10.

I would consider putting any kind of oil onto ammo as a bad idea.  There's a chance it might infiltrate the primers, and there's also a chance it might gum up over time.  Furthermore, after you break out the ammo and start handling it, then the oil might attract dirt and track it into your rifle.

Better to simply store your cartridges in an airtight ammo box and toss in a fresh desiccant packet, or some "vapor paper".

Fully 100% of the 360 rd battlepack dated 5/03 lot 3 I received today is corroded. Not a single round appears safe to shoot. I am extremely disappointed. Guess I'll give AIM a call and hope for an agreeable resolution.

this range of ammo is unreal.  people have done crono tests and found a pretty decent SD which I take to mean the ammo was produced well enough.  sounds like serious storage problems abound!  AIM is making up the bad cases for you guys?  I feel horrible having gotten the good stuff.....

Quoted: I feel horrible having gotten the good stuff.....

Why? So we all can equally be in ammo misery? I'm glad you got good stuff...
Plus, doesn't HaShem bless you?

Rmpl

I would have to seriously consider that stuff at half the price.  AIM is cool, but at that price, I'll pass.

I ordered two cases of it today.  The lady I spoke to said that they are openning each crate and inspecting one BP to see if it's worthy of shipping.  She said that if I was to get some crappy corroded ammo that they would send out replacements.  Good service for sure.  It's not the most inexpensive ammo out there but it appears to be just fine.  Shooting it will allow me to store my Q3131A and XM195 stash for a longer period of time.

Lot 6 1993, just like chapperjoes. Perfect. Glad I chanced another crate. VERY glad indeed.

Quoted: I would have to seriously consider that stuff at half the price.  AIM is cool, but at that price, I'll pass.

+1

My test order battlepack arrived today, Lot 1 - 1991

PVC was cracked and split near handle. All non-waxy paper cartons inside.
Exactly 40 rounds out of 360 were corroded enough to be put in the "questionable" pile, and of those 40 were 6 that I deem UNSAFE. The passing 320 rounds either were very nice with no corrosion or just minor spots of corrosion or staining. So, about 11% of MY LOT of ammo is of poor quality.

It did appear that most of the most severely corroded rounds were right in the MIDDLE of the paper carton, exactly where the ADHESIVE BAND was wrapped around the carton sealing the lid closed. A few others were at the end, right next to a GLUED paper joint corner.

With this all in mind, this is what I think happened to this ammo:
This well-constructed ammo (very uniform bullet seating and crimps, well sealed primers, nice looking brass) was stored in MISERABLE CONDITIONS in Guatemala for over a DECADE with TEMPERATURE SWINGS and HUMIDITY that caused CONDENSATION and EVAPORATION within the sealed PVC battlepacks. This moisture reacted with the ADHESIVES used in carton manufacture and sealing, as well as the chemical makeup of the paper used in carton material to cause a chemical reaction (corrosion/staining) with the BRASS CASE wherever it touched.

It is truly a roll of the dice with this ammo as some crates (top, bottom, sides) would be more exposed to the extreme conditions than others (nested in the middle) as they were stored over the years in HUGE PILES of PALLETS. Some of the worst ammo pictured so far I bet were probably on the bottom ot very top somewhere and probably rained/flooded/submerged at least once in its storage life.

My opinion on this ammo is that is WAY OVERPRICED for the CONDITION we are receiving it in. Which is very sad as this was once extremely fine ammo and would have been the ammo find of the DECADE if it were not exposed to miserable storage conditions. Even if the ammo looks shiney and pretty like ChapperJoe's crate, it is obvious that his and ALL OF THIS AMMO has had a brutal storage life and I wouldn't make this my "save for a rainy day" ammo. You can guess which ammo is going to be shot up first...

The range reports will be very useful as if this ammo can survive such torturous storage conditions and still maintain its M193 velocity and reliability, then the concern to use dessicant bags in sealed ammo cans or if a garage environment is harmful to MILITARY ammo may all be folly...

The summary is just my opinion, others may love what they got, corrosion and all...

Rmpl

I feel this ammo should be good for long term storage (perhaps removed from the boxes).  The corrosion looks to be caused by contact with the cardboard boxes in the presence of moisture.  The rounds themselves appear to be well sealed.  Therefore the bright, shiny rounds making up most of this ammo should not have deteriorated from the moisture.  Temperature?  Who knows?  But much of this ammo is only 8 years old.  
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/westfork/Guatemalan223close.jpg

Man, I'd really like to buy some, but I can't afford to take a gamble with that much $$$.

DAMN That is some ugly ammo. Where did they dig that stuff up from? the beach
You should have sent that crap right back out on the same truck it came in on.
I feel your headache from here on fixing this mess.

I don't shoot Wolf but would rather chance it instead

-1 om Guat ammo  




Not knocking your customer service, just the ammo

I got my case in last week, I opened a couple of boxes/battlepacks last night just to see what they were like. The brass had plenty of shine,  but spots of "corrosion" like what has been pictured.

That being said, it didn't look like "corrosion" to me, it looked like mildew. That's the first thing I detected, when opening the battle pack, mildew. So I decided to wipe down some of the mildew rounds, just to see what they look like without the faux "corrosion." Well, they definitely have tarnished spots without the mildew, but I wouldn't call it corrosion.  If anything, I wouldn't shoot it without a good wipedown, mostly because I wouldn't subject yourself (and others) to breathing in all that mildew on the range... he
Not trying to start a flame war, just thought I'd mention what I observed.

Cheers,

lansker

Mine was definitely severely corroded, not merely covered with mildew.

I recieved my crate today, it was broken and two of the packs were open on the ends. All the ammo I inspected was in great shape.

I received my (Lot 3, 1985) Guatemalan from AIM and was very pleased.  

As previously reported by others, my ammo packaging also suffered severe termite problems.  All 4 battle packs had a number of holes in them due to termites.  In each battle pack there were 1 to 3 boxes that also contained termite holes with their wood shavings inside.  For the most part rounds with corrosion came from these boxes.  It was nothing major and all it took was a wipe down with a rag that left slight discoloration.  I would say that 90% of the rounds were perfect in every way and much cleaner than issue M855.  The other 10% were still very serviceable with only slight discoloration.  I guess it's a crap shoot with this stuff but I would buy more if I needed it.      


A box dumped out showing the termite wood shavings that were inside


The box with the worst termite damage


The two center rounds showing the average corrosion

Damn, look at the annealing on those rounds they look good!

Gorgeous.

I am gonna have chrono info this weekend.

Quoted: Damn, look at the annealing on those rounds they look good!

Yep, if it wasn't for the horrendous storage conditions this ammo survived, doing who knows what to powder/primer accuracy and longevity of useful lifespan, this would have been the POT OF GOLD at the end of the rainbow for this decade I would think... Every round, construction wise, was PERFECT! I would have saved a crap load for my grandkids to enjoy one day, and my daughter is only two now...

As it is, I'm not getting anymore unless I can verify it is one of the "prom queen" lots like ChapperJoe got... The other stuff we are getting is NOT WORTH THE PRICE...

Rmpl

the anealing in the last pic's looks over done compared to most milsrp I've seen.  I'd expect to have to trim those cases immediately.  This is south of the border ammo at a high price.

Not to worry.  AIM is opening each and every case and inspecting at least one BP to ensure that they don't ship any corroded ammo.  IF you were to get some by chance they will make it right.  I called and asked and that is what Linda told me.

Quoted: Man, I'd really like to buy some, but I can't afford to take a gamble with that much $$$.hr

Quoted: Not to worry.  AIM is opening each and every case and inspecting at least one BP to ensure that they don't ship any corroded ammo.  IF you were to get some by chance they will make it right.  I called and asked and that is what Linda told me. Quoted: Man, I'd really like to buy some, but I can't afford to take a gamble with that much $$$.

My last case had one BP cut open neatly and 2 boxes were opened and checked. This ammo was perfect in every way.

I ordered two cases yesterday around 11:30 a.m. EST.  Today!, at 11:15 a.m. BBT dropped off my two cases.  I'm in Detroit area.  This is fantastic service.  Delivery in under 24 hours!!  You rock AIMhecked
I'll cleck the rest later and report.

I received a couple more cases today.  Still looks good!

Quoted: I ordered two cases yesterday around 11:30 a.m. EST.  Today!, at 11:15 a.m. BBT dropped off my two cases.  I'm in Detroit area.  This is fantastic service.  Delivery in under 24 hours!!  You rock AIM I checked my two cases and AIM had opened them and cut into one BP.  I noticed that a box was opened and upon review the ammo is just fine. I'll cleck the rest later and report.

That was with the standard delivery?  I don't remember seeing an option so that's what I went with.  Just curious as I just ordered some this evening.

Also, how is everyone "re-storing" everything they open and dump out?  just back in the boxes they came in?

Kudos to AIM.  My first case '90 Lot 9 was 75% corroded/tarnished.  I called AIM and two days later I had a new case and shipping papers to send the old back.  I inspected the whole new case '97 lot 7 and only one round had a bit of corrosion, two tarnished, and one had the green sealant on the case below the neck.  The rest were all bright and shiny and great.  

Makes me happy to see a company look after their customers and make sure things are done right.  AIM will be getting further business from me.  Thanks!

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I ordered two cases yesterday around 11:30 a.m. EST.  Today!, at 11:15 a.m. BBT dropped off my two cases.  I'm in Detroit area.  This is fantastic service.  Delivery in under 24 hours!!  You rock AIM I checked my two cases and AIM had opened them and cut into one BP.  I noticed that a box was opened and upon review the ammo is just fine. I'll cleck the rest later and report. That was with the standard delivery?  I don't remember seeing an option so that's what I went with.  Just curious as I just ordered some this evening. Also, how is everyone "re-storing" everything they open and dump out?  just back in the boxes they came in? I'm putting mine on strippers and into ammo cans with some dessicant.

Mine is dumped loose into an ammo can and a little dessicant thrown on top.  It shot quite well so I will probably store that away and order more.

Went through my Lot 1 1984 case.  Most of the ammo is very tarnished.  I did cut out about 100 rounds that has significant corrosion on them. have
Boy does that stuff STINK!  My entire basement is peutrid!  I ended up spraying lysol on every thing.Over all I'm OK with this deal.  AIM is great to deal with but in this case I think that this deal is not that good.  Better deals are out there.  I would not order this stuff again unless it's the last stuff around.  Now if they dropped the price say $75 a case then it would be a much better value.

Quoted: Now if they dropped the price say $75 a case then it would be a much better value.

Eventhough the ammo deserves a price cut, I doubt we will see it, as there are too many AMMO STARVED shooters out there DROOLING for M193-spec ammo. Even if the burnt powder smells like cat piss...

It sounds like AIM is shipping better stuff now though...

Rmpl

Quoted: Went through my Lot 1 1984 case.  Most of the ammo is very tarnished.  I did cut out about 100 rounds that has significant corrosion on them.  I have one more case to go through (Lot 3, 1985).  We shall see. Boy does that stuff STINK!  My entire basement is peutrid!  I ended up spraying lysol on every thing. Over all I'm OK with this deal.  AIM is great to deal with but in this case I think that this deal is not that good.  Better deals are out there.  I would not order this stuff again unless it's the last stuff around.  Now if they dropped the price say $75 a case then it would be a much better value.

Yes it has its own scent, that's for sure. The 7.62 South African & Portuguese battlepacks I have smell like canned luncheon meat on the inside.