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Posted: 2/27/2006 12:08:50 PM EDT
I had not shot for about 10 years on a regular basis so didn't get any of the Q3131A which I deeply regret. I didn't see a single box of it or any other mil spec ammo at our gun show this weekend. I had hoped to try it since my gun doesn't like Q3131 at all.
I have been very impressed with the walmart winchester in the 40 packs thas made in Israel. It shot really nice groups ( 5 shots in 1 1/4 to 1 5/8). I just bought a varminter and it shot consistantly just under and over an inch this morning. I had hoped the gun would regularly shoot under 1 MOA as many have claimed but this am could not produce that results. Yeah there were several groups from winchester hollow point and one from federal soft point that were sup MOA 5 shot groups. Who knows maybe I can shoot that well anymore.
Anyway to the point. One of the walmarts told me the winchester made in Israel stuff had been deleted and it was scarce at all the stores.
I wonder if winchester will start selling it under their USA name again which to me was not near as good.
Anyone heard anything about this?
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 1:47:01 PM EDT
Winchester lost their contract with IMI Israel, for Q3131A, and it is possible IMI is not making any ammuntion for Winchester/Olin anymore.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 1:49:44 PM EDT
Thanks for the reply. I was afraid that may be the case. Thats some good shooting ammo for the money.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 5:23:54 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 5:36:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Troy:
Like many major military ammo manufacturers, IMI's output is being used exclusively for military contracts, and they have orders from many countries, including the US.

The WoT has cause a huge spike in ammo demand WORLDWIDE, which has sucked up all of the available capacity of all of the better ammo plants. Normally, some percentage of their output would be used to produce ammo for civilian sales, but that capacity hasn't been available for at least two years, and that isn't likely to change anytime soon.

.223 ammo of all types, including USA-made "hunting" loads, has been scarce or totally unavailable, as stocks have dwindled and haven't been replaced by manufacturers, who are trying to keep up with military demand (and failing).

-Troy



So.... Troy - why dont you tell us *your* stocking plan.... and what *you* feel secure with having onhand. Kinda like a broker.... is this a buy or sell market?
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 5:41:37 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 5:50:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JRandyH:
I had not shot for about 10 years on a regular basis so didn't get any of the Q3131A which I deeply regret. I didn't see a single box of it or any other mil spec ammo at our gun show this weekend. I had hoped to try it since my gun doesn't like Q3131 at all.
I have been very impressed with the walmart winchester in the 40 packs thas made in Israel. It shot really nice groups ( 5 shots in 1 1/4 to 1 5/8). I just bought a varminter and it shot consistantly just under and over an inch this morning. I had hoped the gun would regularly shoot under 1 MOA as many have claimed but this am could not produce that results. Yeah there were several groups from winchester hollow point and one from federal soft point that were sup MOA 5 shot groups. Who knows maybe I can shoot that well anymore.
Anyway to the point. One of the walmarts told me the winchester made in Israel stuff had been deleted and it was scarce at all the stores.
I wonder if winchester will start selling it under their USA name again which to me was not near as good.
Anyone heard anything about this?



JRandyH - you may want to try some better ammo - instead of the cheapest plinking ammo ( not that it is cheap-or not good). you may find that your barrel may need some break in time ie 250 to 500 rounds, and you may want to try some heaver pills like the 69 gr matchkings.

As always YMMV

Later,

Badredfish
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 2:38:44 AM EDT
Thanks,
I also tried walmart varmint hollow point , some old stock black hills 52 grain hollow point and some federal soft point. They were about the same as the wal mart ammo.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 5:05:57 AM EDT
Sooooo, does this mean I should buy what WWB I can in a short time frame?
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 7:58:09 AM EDT
For what it is worth, the ammunitionstore.com has just added Winchester ammo that is made in Israel to their website. I have no clue what it is, but I know what it is. I called to see if it was Q3131A and the person who answered the phone said it was not. So I called Wideners and bought a bunch of XM193.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 11:58:19 AM EDT
Start reloading boys
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 1:56:14 PM EDT
Made my weekly trip to Wally World, hoping that they had gotten more in after only having 1 box last week. Surprise,surprise- the clerk tells me they ain't carrying it anymore, says they weren't given a reason even when they asked.his
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 2:00:01 PM EDT
I bought all they had the last few times they got some in. May have to make a trip and get some more before it goes away for good...

TS
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 2:41:54 PM EDT
Yeah it just occured to me that when I bought that single box I finally accomplished my dream of "cleaning out" my local Walmart!
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 2:49:25 PM EDT
I retunred to another store this am and they had some more in. I bought the 10 boxes they had. The lady at this store was pretty sharp and her husband is a hunter. She said she hasn't heard anything about them not selling anymore. I still think it will come back out as made in USA Winchester since they have are no longer contracting with Israel to make the 5.56 ammo. I found some boxes at Sports Authority that were probably old stock that said 50 round value pack and were supposed to be 45 grain hollow point varmint rounds. These are small boxes like the size of the walmart value packs. When I opened them it was FMJ and not Hollow points. At some strange price of just over 4 dollars I decided to keep the 7 boxes.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 3:37:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CannoncockerUSMC:
For what it is worth, the ammunitionstore.com has just added Winchester ammo that is made in Israel to their website. I have no clue what it is, but I know what it is. I called to see if it was Q3131A and the person who answered the phone said it was not. So I called Wideners and bought a bunch of XM193.



Per Ammunition Store, it's the Winchester .223 USA223R1.
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