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Posted: 2/23/2006 7:02:43 AM EDT
Where's Ammomans green tip ss109 come from? I did a search here and couldn't find it covered. It is advertised as "front line factory sealed ammo", but is it seconds like the xm or pd line? I thought you couldn't sell the contract stuff unless re-manufactured or old? Thinking of buying some, but want to know exactly what I am paying for...
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 7:12:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/23/2006 7:13:30 AM EDT by markm]
NOT THIS SHIT AGAIN!

Yeah! It has to be at least 87 days old to sell or floor sweepings!
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 7:52:24 AM EDT


IBTL
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 7:54:55 AM EDT
Enterprising National Guardsmen.





­

<­BR>



J/K. I've been wondering the about the sources Myself.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 8:08:30 AM EDT
Trade secret.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 8:10:42 AM EDT
If this:

FRONT LINE FACTORY SEALED AMMO

223 / 5.56 M855 GREEN TIP AMMO - 62 GRAIN
LAKE CITY WITH STEEL PENETRATOR

PACKED ON STRIPPER CLIPS (10rds. EA.)
120 rounds IN BANDOLEERS WITH GUIDES.
7 BANDOLEERS IN CANS ( 840rds PER CAN )
2 CANS PER MILITARY CRATE

is what your asking about it came from Lake City, and is as described and "pictured" (that's what the LC on the metal tag stands for).

Mike

ps - and BTW, it's M855, same as in use in the sandbox, IIRC the "loose" stuff may be the PD ammo but this stuff above is top quality M855 ammo.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 11:04:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/23/2006 11:14:56 AM EDT by kavik]
Yes, that is what I am asking about, not trying to cause a "shitstorm" or anything like that, I searched for prior info here and elsewhere and couldn't find any. Why would a question like this be locked? It looks like front line LC as Mr. Wilson described, I just wasn't sure because I thought all mil marked / produced ammo was not available for resale or all first quality production went directly to the military, from what I have read - But I couldn't figure the factories paying to stripper clip / pack up the second line stuff -


"Due to an Executive Order signed by President Clinton, the US military can no longer "surplus" ammunition, except via the Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP), and the CMP does not sell 5.56/.223 ammo. US military ammo (most notably from the Lake City Army Ammunition Plant) used to be widely available, but has become quite scarce and the prices quite high, in the last few years. Though some military ammo components are "saved" by contractors disassembling the ammo and selling the components, most expired or out-of-spec lots of ammo are burned. Billions of rounds of ammo, paid for by US tax dollars, are burned yearly.

Small quantities of loaded ammo are occasionally available, usually at gun shows. This is either old stock from before the ban, police trade-ins, or stolen military ammo. The military has programs where it gives police departments surplus weapons and ammo and these departments sometimes trade this ammo to their ammo distributor for cash or other ammo. The distributors then make the exchanged military ammo available to the civilian market. ."

So it looks like it could be some sort of trade in deal where he got it? - If that's the case it could be "front line ammo".
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 11:21:57 AM EDT
it's good ammo for sure!
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 11:25:48 AM EDT
Call or email him and ask for yourself.

Be sure to report back with all of the BS and four letter words that he gives you.

I personally do not trust the man or his organization because he will never give a straight answer.

However, many here swear by him.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 11:47:04 AM EDT
I just ordered 3,360 rnds, I hope it's good. I ordered a case from another site, didn't say it was PD before ordering but I learned a lesson as it doesn't look like something I'm in any hurry to use.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 1:36:19 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 1:39:47 PM EDT
Those of us around Rochester ,NY know who that weatherman is. Great guy. Entertaining forecasts.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 2:17:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rock7:
Call or email him and ask for yourself.

Be sure to report back with all of the BS and four letter words that he gives you.

I personally do not trust the man or his organization because he will never give a straight answer.

However, many here swear by him.




Well I for one have done business with Ammoman for at least 4 years, and have never had a cross word with guy.

He has allways answered my emails and returned phone calls in a prompt manor. His shipping has allways been fast. I can count on a 5 day from order placement to delivery, I normally order on a weekend and have my ammo by Friday. Alot of people copmplain about his prices, BUT his prices include shipping, after I shop around, he is normally just a few dollars from everyone else.





Link Posted: 2/23/2006 2:22:15 PM EDT
ammomans M855 Stippers/bandoliers very good stuff!

I bought some on strippers 500rds

very good stuff

no tiny dings wich is strange???

But since ammoman has WOLF M193 2006 why buy the LCM855 unless you like the 10gr steel penetrator!
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 9:07:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/24/2006 9:11:11 PM EDT by mjm1]
I bought a can of this stuff, and am very happy with it. As for where he got it, and whether it is legal: I am not concerned about that, though my guess is that there is nothing to worry about.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 10:12:38 PM EDT
To the original poster: you probably won't get a straight answer to your question, if you haven't figured out already. What you will get is a lot of tapdancing.

I don't know the answer and could care less either way. It's a stupid ass law anyway, as I'm sure most of you would agree. However, I would like to know the answer to your question also, just for shits and giggles.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 10:18:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JoshD:
To the original poster: you probably won't get a straight answer to your question, if you haven't figured out already. What you will get is a lot of tapdancing.

I don't know the answer and could care less either way. It's a stupid ass law anyway, as I'm sure most of you would agree. However, I would like to know the answer to your question also, just for shits and giggles.



+1
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 10:44:39 PM EDT
The XM193 was advertised as "BRAND NEW BOXER PRIMED, U.S. MILITARY AMMO" with a lot of fanfare and hype, and we know how that turned out. Probably a similar situation.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 10:51:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Troy:
Some random facts to mull around in your heads:

Alliant TechSystems (ATK) has the contract to operate Lake City for the US Military.

Federal Cartridge is owned by ATK, and is the division that actually does the work at Lake City.

Federal has sold a LOT of non-Grade 1 ammo on the civilian market.

Just because ammo has been packaged for the military doesn't mean that it passed military inspection (though QC attempts to filter out any ammo that isn't likely to pass before it iss submitted).

Ammo can fail QC and/or acceptance testing for very MINOR issues that wouldn't affect it's use by civilians (or by military for normal usage).

Ammoman is among Federal's largest retailers.


Again, this is just a list of facts, with no conclusion offered.


-Troy



Very interesting, thanks.
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 6:58:40 AM EDT
SPECULATION
Is it possible that Federal is producing and packaging more ammunition than called for in the contract and thus selling "the real thing" legally because it's "overage.?" Considering that the ammo makers are not dumb, perhaps they're finding ways to get around the "you can't make it under contract and then sell it to civilians" executive order...
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 12:03:26 PM EDT
The LC M855 in cans on strippers and in badoleers from AMMOMAN is not seconds. I have two 1680 round cases of the stuff, still in the wood crate, with two ammo cans inside, protected by the foam. The wood crate still has the "US" wire seals, and when you crack open a crate the two ammo cans still have their "US" wire seals.

I have another case of the stuff open with about a thousand rounds remaining. It is all clean, non-dented, real deal M855 ammo in it's total and complete packaging. It has all it lot number and inspection marks too, oh and the UN codes. Where he/they obtained it? But it is openly sold by a legit' company so the ammo can't be stuff that "fell off a truck" sometime in the past. Buy it, shoot it, and quit trying to read into something that is not there.....
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 1:38:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GHPorter:
SPECULATION
Is it possible that Federal is producing and packaging more ammunition than called for in the contract and thus selling "the real thing" legally because it's "overage.?" Considering that the ammo makers are not dumb, perhaps they're finding ways to get around the "you can't make it under contract and then sell it to civilians" executive order...




Do your cans themselves have any markings on them? Mine were packaged like that but the cans did not have any markings on them. I thought the cans would say M855, # of rounds etc. On my order there was nothing painted on the cans. Just plain green cans packed up the way you described.
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 1:42:07 PM EDT
240b +1 love the LC M855 good stuff!! use it !

Link Posted: 2/25/2006 3:04:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/25/2006 3:05:22 PM EDT by seahorse]
I do know some Army units that were scheduled to go to the sandbox during the last rotation didn't go. There was a small draw-down in troops last year. How much? I don't recall. Possibly this lot was meant for them. The can I got looks like the real thing. The date stamp is 2005. Haven't shot it yet.

The lead time for orders like this is probably 6 months to a year. When the change in assignment came the Army purchasers didn't need it & ATK/Federal was allowed to put it on the open market. This second paragraph is just a guess.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 8:26:28 PM EDT
I have purchased several cans of this ammo and am very tremendously happy with it. I've put a couple of thousand rounds downrange without a hint of a problem. Great Ammo!
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