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Posted: 2/16/2006 3:16:29 AM EDT
Does anyone know where I can purchase some Hornady Tap Ammo (.223) online? I've been searching but can't find anyone with some in stock. Even Hornady say's they are out until around the end of the month because of a large Law Enforcment order they had to get shipped out.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 3:18:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/16/2006 3:20:26 AM EDT by twonami]
midway had some the last time I looked but they won't sell the 5.56 version to civvies
ETA: nevermind they're out of stock too
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 3:21:40 AM EDT
Ya I checked them yesterday.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 3:30:17 AM EDT
Sometimes you guys crack me up.....

You can always purchase the Black Hills 75grn match HPBT ammo, as it's the same bullet w/ only a very slight difference in MV.

Won't make any difference to the guy shot with it, he'll still be just a dead.

After all, it's the bullet doing the work not the "label" on the box.

Mike
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 3:34:55 AM EDT
Point taken!!!
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 3:39:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mr_wilson:
Sometimes you guys crack me up.....

You can always purchase the Black Hills 75grn match HPBT ammo, as it's the same bullet w/ only a very slight difference in MV.

Won't make any difference to the guy shot with it, he'll still be just a dead.

After all, it's the bullet doing the work not the "label" on the box.

Mike


but it dosen't have the cool tactical black finish on the shell casing
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 6:35:23 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 7:22:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By VARminator:
TAP Ammo Online



Here's the MV listed for the TAP ammo above: Muzzle velocity: 2616 FPS

Here's the MV listed for the BH ammo I listed above: Muzzle velocity 2750 FPS

Which would you rather be slinging outta your AR15/M16?

Mike


Link Posted: 2/16/2006 9:38:42 AM EDT
Actually this is what it says on the website for TAP ammo
Muzzle velocity: 2910 FPS
8 inch gelatin penetration
13.6 grains retained weight
75% fragmentation

The 55 grain TAP will begin to fragment in a sheet rock wall but still has significant retained velocity, weight and penetration.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 10:12:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/17/2006 2:03:18 AM EDT by mr_wilson]

Originally Posted By VARminator:
Actually this is what it says on the website for TAP ammo
Muzzle velocity: 2910 FPS
8 inch gelatin penetration
13.6 grains retained weight
75% fragmentation

The 55 grain TAP will begin to fragment in a sheet rock wall but still has significant retained velocity, weight and penetration.





Hey dufass, got a reading comprehension problem there VARmintor?

I posted the "actual-data", (from the site you posted) on the 75grn. match HPBT ammo, why would you want to confuse the issue with 55grn TAP data which is NOT a good choice for self defense ammo when compared to the 75grn. option?

Don't pretend ya don't know the difference.

Perhaps you need to go back to the tacked threads and get your head screwed on straight, as the most wanted Hornady bullet for self-defense at this point in time IS the round I was posting about above.

Mike

ETA - BTW, when did the FBI change it's preference to 8" of penetration, IIRC it's always been 12-18" of penetration?

Why not fess up with the penetration figure shown for the 75grn round I was posting about?

Here, I'll do it:
Muzzle velocity: 2616 FPS
13.63 inch gelatin penetration
20.8 grains retained weight
72% fragmentation

Dang sight better than 8" don'tcha think?
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 10:23:10 AM EDT
I wonder whats the barrel length?
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 11:12:18 AM EDT
Different barrel lengths create different listed velocities.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 1:22:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mr_wilson:

Originally Posted By VARminator:
TAP Ammo Online



Here's the MV listed for the TAP ammo above: Muzzle velocity: 2616 FPS

Here's the MV listed for the BH ammo I listed above: Muzzle velocity 2750 FPS

Which would you rather be slinging outta your AR15/M16?

Mike





Does one have a cannelure and the other not?
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 2:23:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DevL:
Different barrel lengths create different listed velocities.



So does where the chronograph is placed.

As noted in this thread below 15' is the distance used by most folks and our own B&T Ammo Labs, placing the chrony at 10' gets ya misconstrued MV figures.


Originally Posted By leakycow:

Does one have a cannelure and the other not?



The TAP does, the Match does not, here: www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=268891, please note these are BOTH Hornady products in this thread.

As noted by MikeMills on page 2 and my own observations the Black Hills (bluebox) 75grn match HPBT I'm speaking of above HAS the cannelure as well as a listed MV above the TAP noted above.

Don't get hung up on the brands/types or nomenclature here as it can confuse ya, ALL of these rounds are the same bullet, and "cannelure" or "NO cannelure" makes litte if any difference;

the Hornady #2279 bullet (.224 22 CAL 75 GR Boat Tail Hollow Point MATCH) shown here: www.hornady.com/, (under Bullet/Rifle/.224 at bottom of the page) is the bullet used in both the 2 Hornady products (TAP & Match) in the thread above and the new & reman'd Black Hills version.

Mike


Link Posted: 2/17/2006 7:54:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/17/2006 7:57:20 AM EDT by VARminator]

Originally Posted By mr_wilson:

Originally Posted By VARminator:
Actually this is what it says on the website for TAP ammo
Muzzle velocity: 2910 FPS
8 inch gelatin penetration
13.6 grains retained weight
75% fragmentation

The 55 grain TAP will begin to fragment in a sheet rock wall but still has significant retained velocity, weight and penetration.





Hey dufass, got a reading comprehension problem there VARmintor? NOPE YOU DO
I posted the "actual-data", (from the site you posted) on the 75grn. match HPBT ammo, why would you want to confuse the issue with 55grn TAP data which is NOT a good choice for self defense ammo when compared to the 75grn. option?

Don't pretend ya don't know the difference.

Perhaps you need to go back to the tacked threads and get your head screwed on straight, as the most wanted Hornady bullet for self-defense at this point in time IS the round I was posting about above.

Mike

ETA - BTW, when did the FBI change it's preference to 8" of penetration, IIRC it's always been 12-18" of penetration?

Why not fess up with the penetration figure shown for the 75grn round I was posting about?

Here, I'll do it:
Muzzle velocity: 2616 FPS
13.63 inch gelatin penetration
20.8 grains retained weight
72% fragmentation

Dang sight better than 8" don'tcha think?



The Man asked for .223 TAP Mr Duf ass Wilson! He Never mentioned 75's. I know the differance and I know RUDE IDIOT PEOPLE like you. So if you want to act like a child then, I don not care about your lack of PENETRATION, thats your problem. Stop being so Anal and rude, or haven't you learned how to yet.

As for self defense, the bullets plural that shoot will do the trick. AS for wounding we all know thats a BAD idea because then you end up in court being sued. I have my choice to shoot for home defense and any will due the trick, just make that final shot count after he or she is FUBAR ed by the first rounds.
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 8:36:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By VARminator:
The Man asked for .223 TAP Mr Duf ass Wilson! He Never mentioned 75's. I know the differance and I know RUDE IDIOT PEOPLE like you. So if you want to act like a child then, I don not care about your lack of PENETRATION, thats your problem. Stop being so Anal and rude, or haven't you learned how to yet.

As for self defense, the bullets plural that shoot will do the trick. AS for wounding we all know thats a BAD idea because then you end up in court being sued. I have my choice to shoot for home defense and any will due the trick, just make that final shot count after he or she is FUBAR ed by the first rounds.




Spoken like a person whose never managed to find the time to read the "Tacked" thread atop the Ammunition Forum.

Your the one who decided to bring into this discussion a TAP round (55grn.) which does not belong here, ie... a round no-one has suggested as being good for self-defense situations, since it fails to reach the 12" min. penetration depth.

The only TAP round worthy of discussion IS the 75grn. match HPBT used by Hornady in TAP and Match factory fodder and other variants such as the Black Hills option I pointed out above, (as well as those of us that reload them).

Next time you want to make a comparison, make certain your comparing apples to apples, NOT apples to oranges, or simply STFU and go away, it'll save ya from resembling my sig line.

Mike
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 8:52:31 AM EDT
mr_wilson, seems to me you are the only one talking about the 75grainers. Maybe you're the one with a reading comprehension problem! You ever think that maybe some of us can't shoot the heavy 75's in our 1/9's? Chill out dude!

Stang
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 9:31:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/17/2006 9:33:35 AM EDT by VARminator]
Thanx "Mustangwon" Mr. Wilson obvioulsy is suffering from something, lackanuki or penetration, I think he only gets 2-3 inches in ballistic gel, try sheep? Might be one of them teenagers on here, he acts like it. Why do people go so ballistic and become so rude on here for no reason, very touchy. They need to practice their human skills before their shooting skills. He might be a hermit living out by himself w/ no people skills. Tag whatever, the man never mentioned 75 or barrel twist, I rest my case. Please, No More whinning Mr W. I only dish out what was dished to me, I don't like Rude People.
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 9:44:03 AM EDT
Just to set the record straight I was just interested in trying some TAP FPD. I don't care what grain it is at this point 55, 60 or 75. Just trying to find some out there.

P.S. Shooting a Colt 20 in. HBAR 1/7 twist.
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 9:53:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/17/2006 9:54:26 AM EDT by VARminator]
Which is all that the POOR Man asked for in the first place, next thing ya know all these others are flaming about diff. rounds. Have seen it at a few places online.

Just click on my TAP online way up above!!!! Lots of choices
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 10:07:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tomvs8:
Just to set the record straight I was just interested in trying some TAP FPD. I don't care what grain it is at this point 55, 60 or 75. Just trying to find some out there.

P.S. Shooting a Colt 20 in. HBAR 1/7 twist.



Excuse me for thinking you had read the Ammo Faq, and knew which TAP product is the one most preferred by the ammo experts.

Shoot the anemic ballistic tip 55 or 60 grn TAP then, which lacks the ability to reach the CNS of most humans.

As to not being able to shoot the 75grn TAP outta your 1/9 twist AR, well you can go argue with all those fellas who are shooting it, if ya want, I'm done trying to point you fellars in the proper direction.

Mike

ps - I'll leave ya with the comments of one of our resident AR Ammunition Experts from this thread here: www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=269206&page=3


Originally Posted By: brouhaha
You need to learn to accept some good natured ribbing. Threads like this have been rehashed so many times that people get tired of responding. And when they see one of the common fallacies, they like to poke fun.

In your case, they were implying that 55gr Vmax is more suitable for woodchucks than for people. Which I can't disagree with.

Polymer tipped rounds underpenetrate...badly. You should not rely on them to reach CNS to rapidly STOP the threat.




FYI, these are the very bullets your purchasing when ya buy the 55 & 60grn TAP ammo.
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 10:22:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/17/2006 10:24:07 AM EDT by VARminator]
You were being rude to people giving them what they asked for. Like I often say on here if you can't say it nice, DON"T SAY IT!!!!!!!!!! They never said they wanted to shoot people with it, it's up to them what they want to do. They may not want to shoot their neighbors too, CNS or no CNS.
Besides aren't more people killed with a .22 rim than any other bullet or is that one of them Urban Legends

Besides, I thought Mr. Wilson floated away a long time ago... W-I-L-S-O-N

As for intelligence, I would go head to head any day, I am not one for boasting degrees but my PhD will outdue your rudeness anyday. Now go take those Happy pills or go get some and enjoy life, don't fight it.

PS he said 1in 7 twist
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 10:33:41 AM EDT
Come on guy's I'am not looking to shoot anybody with the Tap I simply what to see how it shoots in my weapon.
I have a private 100 & 200 yd. range on my property so i do a lot of shooting and am always trying new ammo to see what works and what doesn't.
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 11:12:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/17/2006 11:13:26 AM EDT by VARminator]
Did you go to the site I posted above? Or check the ammo pricelist info on here they have a great list of companies that sell the .223 ammo. Check them out or also the Hornady site maye list some others for it.
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 11:18:56 AM EDT
I did check the site you posted (thanks) and am still waiting to hear from them as to weather or not they have any in stock. Ever other site i have checked is out of stock at the present time.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 4:46:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By VARminator:
You were being rude to people giving them what they asked for. Like I often say on here if you can't say it nice, DON"T SAY IT!!!!!!!!!! They never said they wanted to shoot people with it, it's up to them what they want to do. They may not want to shoot their neighbors too, CNS or no CNS.
Besides aren't more people killed with a .22 rim than any other bullet or is that one of them Urban Legends

Besides, I thought Mr. Wilson floated away a long time ago... W-I-L-S-O-N

As for intelligence, I would go head to head any day, I am not one for boasting degrees but my PhD will outdue your rudeness anyday. Now go take those Happy pills or go get some and enjoy life, don't fight it.

PS he said 1in 7 twist





FWIW the only person I've been rude to hopefully, is you; for deliberately confusing the MV issue by picking a lighter weight bullet which insinuated I gave bad fps data in my first re-post above and this comment which is patently FALSE and completely FOS.


The 55 grain TAP will begin to fragment in a sheet rock wall but still has significant retained velocity, weight and penetration.


As anyone who has consulted the Ammo Faq and "tacked" threads above or even "looked" the post you made which showed a mere 8" of penetration for the round, would know.

As to my age, how bright/intelligent does one have to be to select the "User Info" button, which would have precluded the asinine "teenager" comments above (I'm 51 as the picture clearly indicates, had you bothered to look),

the mr_wilson comments (as my handle represents my initials and name, which again had ya bothered to look, is just as apparent)

and it would have pointed out the difference between a coward that hides behind a keyboard (that would be you and the lack of info revealed when one clicks on your User Info button - BTW, don't feel too bad about this as most posters around have no more guts than yourself and prefer hiding their identities, even the bad-asses) and a real person, who doesn't hide who he is, that has long ago given up being intimidated by educrats like yourself, who "think" they actually know something.

Ya may be smart but ya don't no diddly about self-defense ammo choices for the 223/5.56 and just as obviously can't be bothered to "learn" either.

Just my opinion, but for someone with so much supposed intelligence, PHDs and all, your reading skills are quite pathetic and your gutter mouth could most certainly use some soap.

If ya had any reading skills you'd have known: mustangwon's comments above were to whom my 1/9 twist comments were directed.

Mike

ps - note: so nice how you've taken your own advice in the responses you've given in this thread, (highlighted in red above). You seem to have created an image of yourself as a hypocrite, all on your own, without my help, now that’s a real sign of intelligence and something to be proud of…

me I've had it with PHDs that don't know shit from shinola.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 7:00:10 AM EDT
Anyone know the best place to buy TAP 75 in 5.56mm?
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 7:10:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/20/2006 7:14:39 AM EDT by mbumgarnerii]
Cabela's for 2.23 anyway

Just noticed that it is 12 to 13 weeks backorder.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 7:38:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mr_wilson:

Originally Posted By VARminator:
TAP Ammo Online



Here's the MV listed for the TAP ammo above: Muzzle velocity: 2616 FPS

Here's the MV listed for the BH ammo I listed above: Muzzle velocity 2750 FPS

Which would you rather be slinging outta your AR15/M16?

Mike





If you notice the ammo that they list on Northwestloading's site, It is 80268. If you look on Hornady's website it shows 80268 to have a muzzle velocity of 2790 fps. Northwest has it listed wrong. So it might actually edge out the Black Hills by a smidge.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 8:15:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/20/2006 8:16:22 AM EDT by DevL]

Originally Posted By rsilvers:
Anyone know the best place to buy TAP 75 in 5.56mm?



Direct from Hornady LEO sales $110 per 200 case. Get an LE friend to order for you they must send in an ID and sign a waiver stating they understand its 5.56 pressure not .223 all this is done via fax the same day but they make the ammo in batches and you might have to wait a week or two for a new batch to be made before it actually ships.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 8:32:54 AM EDT
Thanks. I wonder why they need a waiver for 5.56mm ammo. 5.56mm is standard ammo. Lots of people load it. It is normal pressure (for 5.56mm), not over pressure.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 8:34:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By twonami:
but it dosen't have the cool tactical black finish on the shell casing



+1
Fuggin' A' Right'
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 8:38:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheMocoMan:

Originally Posted By twonami:
but it dosen't have the cool tactical black finish on the shell casing



+1
Fuggin' A' Right'



The black casing makes it shoot straighter, right.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 8:43:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/20/2006 8:44:35 AM EDT by TheMocoMan]

Originally Posted By PocketG:

Originally Posted By TheMocoMan:

Originally Posted By twonami:
but it dosen't have the cool tactical black finish on the shell casing



+1
Fuggin' A' Right'



The black casing makes it shoot straighter, right.



It's like adding a wing (read: spoiler or shopping cart handle) on your Honda. Not only do you get 200+ points on the cool factor but that wing easily adds 10hp give or take 2hp. Same with these bullets. The black casing adds mad flavaha in ya ear. Not to mention it's probably self lubricating. *AND* it makes the ammo more reliable and yes, it shoots straighter.

Edit to Ad: What's the story on this Aguila stuff? (currently checking the Archive server)
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 9:10:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/20/2006 9:14:12 AM EDT by PocketG]

Originally Posted By TheMocoMan:

Originally Posted By PocketG:

Originally Posted By TheMocoMan:
Originally Posted By twonami:
but it dosen't have the cool tactical black finish on the shell casing



+1
Fuggin' A' Right'



The black casing makes it shoot straighter, right.



It's like adding a wing (read: spoiler or shopping cart handle) on your Honda. Not only do you get 200+ points on the cool factor but that wing easily adds 10hp give or take 2hp. Same with these bullets. The black casing adds mad flavaha in ya ear. Not to mention it's probably self lubricating. *AND* it makes the ammo more reliable and yes, it shoots straighter.

I knew it would shoot straighter, I think it has something to do with the self-lubricating casing.

When I shoot the 75 gr. TAP I'm always amazed how consistant and accurate that round is from my Colt m4 1:7 twist...........



Link Posted: 2/20/2006 11:39:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rsilvers:
Thanks. I wonder why they need a waiver for 5.56mm ammo. 5.56mm is standard ammo. Lots of people load it. It is normal pressure (for 5.56mm), not over pressure.



Probably so some PoDunk police dept does not use it in a .223 chambered carbine, get a malfunction in a critical situation and try to sue Hornady for faulty ammunition that resulted in a death. Total CYA thing I assume.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 12:42:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By VARminator:
As for intelligence, I would go head to head any day, I am not one for boasting degrees but my PhD will outdue your rudeness anyday. Now go take those Happy pills or go get some and enjoy life, don't fight it.




Glad you weren't boasting, because 'outdue' isn't a word, PhD. Maybe you mean 'outdo'?
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 1:00:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/1/2006 1:08:06 PM EDT by rsilvers]
Cabelas.
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