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Posted: 2/14/2006 1:35:15 PM EDT
I just shot 30 rounds of new Winchester USA Q3131 ammo from my AR and about half would eject the spent case but not throw the bolt back far enough to pick up the next round. The very last round again ejected the case but didn't come back far enough to leave the bolt open. Tryed different mag's one being a new USGI with the green follower but still the same problem. I just cleaned and oiled the gun and action so it's not sticking from lack of attention. Tryed some old China Sport ammo in it next and that shot great like it always does, no problem. Can anyone sheld some light on this for me. I would think that if I was to have this kind of problem it would be with the China Sport ammo and not the Winchester Q3131. Also the troublesome Win. ammo is all stamped 04 & 05 dates.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 1:57:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/14/2006 2:11:55 PM EDT by FALARAK]
What is the gun, and what is the chamber? Sounds like a chamber issue firing 5.56 ammunition.... Not sure why it appears to be short stroking, unless the extraction pressue is causing the bolt to slow way down.


What is "China Sport" ammo?
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 2:05:47 PM EDT
It's a pre ban Colt 5.56 Nato 1-7 twist
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 2:06:53 PM EDT
China Sport is made by Norinco
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 2:16:04 PM EDT
Sounds odd.... a NATO spec chambered weapon NOT running on milspec pressure M193, but running on import stuff.

Is the weapon cleaned and lubed per the TM, with CLP? Use a chamber brush to remove all the gunk from firing steel cased ammo?

Have you taken ONE round of the Norinco, insert into a mag, fire, and ensure norinco locks back the bolt 100% of the time, shot after shot? You could be short stroking all the time, but the Norinco just extracts better... not sure.

If you truly believe you are short stroking, examine the gas system, starting with the carrier key, and ensure it is tight, and staked. Pretty rare to see a colt carrier popping loose.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 2:52:24 PM EDT
Yes i just cleaned it and when shooting the Norinco ammo the bolt always stay's back on the last shot. The gun is called a Colt Sporter and the barrel is stamped 5.56 Nato so I asume the chamber is also 5.56
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 3:17:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/14/2006 3:18:00 PM EDT by TravisJ1]
It's not possible!!! Only WOLF causes this kind of problem!!!

Travis


Should have bought the Wolf, could have got twice as much, and allways goes bang for me!!

Good luck, lesson learned I hope?
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 3:28:52 PM EDT
buy your wolf...nobody cares...
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 3:34:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lobsterman:
I love Wolf too!!!...





Great, glad to hear it!!

Travis
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 4:20:22 PM EDT
Does a pre-ban Colt Sporter that has a barrel stamped 5.56 Nato and a lower that is stamped .223 have a 5.56 chamber????
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 5:02:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tomvs8:
Does a pre-ban Colt Sporter that has a barrel stamped 5.56 Nato and a lower that is stamped .223 have a 5.56 chamber????



5.56
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 5:35:11 PM EDT
My 20" Bushy does the same thing with q31. Tried it tonite after I read this. Value pack 55fmj, bolt stays open. Q3131 bolt doesn't.

Brass doesn't fly as far with q3131 as with the winny white value pack.

The q3131 is hotter than the 55gr value pack ammo. The primers are more flat with the q3131.

Curious as to what you figure out with this.

Ben
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 3:14:25 AM EDT
I also noticed right away that the brass doesn't fly as far with the Q3131. Must be because it is shortstroking. Any other thoughts??
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 6:09:40 AM EDT
Start here www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=66&t=263175

I have the same problem with a brand new Bushy 11.5 barrel with the 5.5 supressor. It doesn't matter what kind of ammo cheap or expensive, military or civie, it jams. It's being sent back to Bushmaster as I post. I'll post the results of their findings.

C.M.

Link Posted: 2/15/2006 8:02:18 AM EDT
I just have to assume a bad lot.... I am at a loss.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 10:41:17 AM EDT
I do not know if this is related or not, but you might can check-out this link:
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=268664
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 10:43:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BlueMushrooms:
I do not know if this is related or not, but you might can check-out this link:
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=268664



That link concerned a bad production run of 1999 only Q3131.... he posted his are '04 and '05.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 11:04:29 AM EDT
Nice quote FALARAK,
one of the better quotes on this website.

Ever notice how people on the Left talk about leaving the Country and people on the Right talk about taking the Country back?

C.M.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 2:02:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TravisJ1:

Originally Posted By lobsterman:
I love Wolf too!!!...





Great, glad to hear it!!

Travis



that was good
I have no problems with putting wolf in your rifle. I was just kidding around.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 4:38:19 PM EDT
My question to the left is, You're still here?? (Mr.Penn) Mr. I can't quit smoking while bush is president. waah waah

Originally Posted By corporatemonster:
Nice quote FALARAK,
one of the better quotes on this website.

Ever notice how people on the Left talk about leaving the Country and people on the Right talk about taking the Country back?

C.M.

Link Posted: 2/18/2006 2:52:19 AM EDT
Tomvs8 try using other brand of ammo besides the Q3131 and see if you get the problem solved. I would assume at this point that your particular Q3131 loads are watered down. I have or use to have 100 rounds of Q3131 load and fired about 60 of those rounds without a hitch. But then again the year stamped on the brass are 94'.
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 2:54:05 AM EDT
By the way Tomvs8 I also have a Colt pre-ban 20" 1/7 twist.
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 2:57:59 AM EDT
Falarak seems that I missed your post there. Clicked on the link and found the answer. Thanks.
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 3:52:30 AM EDT
I tried some more of the Q3131 on my range without any problems the other day, now i'm at a loss as to what to think. I guess i'll try some more.
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 3:57:13 AM EDT
Q3131 works great for me, but the Norinco .223 just gives me fits. Go figure.
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 5:59:58 AM EDT
Might be a bad lot. Try lots of different ammo and just ditch the stuff that gives you trouble.
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 8:09:18 AM EDT
Same lot numbers on all boxes so far. I also picked up the spent casings from the stuff that gave me some trouble and compared them to the ones that worked and the primers all seem to look alike, flat as a pancake.
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 8:53:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tomvs8:
Same lot numbers on all boxes so far. I also picked up the spent casings from the stuff that gave me some trouble and compared them to the ones that worked and the primers all seem to look alike, flat as a pancake.



Is your rifle brand new? Sounds to me more like hardware than the ammo. You need a little bit more diverse selection to see if it's ammo related. Like some black hills, WWB of another variety, .223 pressure maybe. I don't know, but if these are the first few round you put through your rifle, I would not be surprised. Also, maybe your mag wasn't seated all the way? Could be the ammo, but doesn't sound like it to me since it works fine now.
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 11:01:15 AM EDT
I'm was thinking it might be a mag issue because in thinking about everything i remembered that the mag was in contact with the padding i had lain on the bench. Maybe this tipped the mag slightly and caused some feeding problems. Will be shooting on my range soon as the weather here in Michigan improves a little (1-below zero this morning).
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 11:03:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/18/2006 11:03:37 AM EDT by FALARAK]

Originally Posted By tomvs8:
I'm was thinking it might be a mag issue because in thinking about everything i remembered that the mag was in contact with the padding i had lain on the bench. Maybe this tipped the mag slightly and caused some feeding problems. Will be shooting on my range soon as the weather here in Michigan improves a little (1-below zero this morning).



That can cause feeding/cycling issues.... forcing the lips to rub the carrier, for sure. Which is why you should never use the mag as a rest or grip it while firing.
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 11:07:33 AM EDT
I wasn't using the mag as a rest purposely but i'm quite sure it was in contact with the extra padding on the bench. I will try and duplicate the situation and see what happens and be more careful in the future.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 4:46:54 PM EDT
I said I would post what Bushmaster found on my AR, so here it is.
The repair order says, " Exchanged weak extractor spring. Relieved tension in neck area of chamber and polished. Deburred and polished feed ramps. Test fired OK 90 rounds."


I'll try firing it tomorrow and post the results.

C.M.
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