AR Sponsor
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - mk262 77gr (Page 1 of 3)
Posted: 3/8/2005 1:17:51 PM EDT
|
Is black hills ever going to get off there arse and make this available???? why havnt they already? if not then what is the next best thing, im sick of waiting for black hills to get it together. unless you want some blems from fulton armory your up shit creek i guess. |
According to the Black Hill's rep here on the board(sierra-something), the MK262 "cosmetic seconds" have passed ALL required contractual specifications but because of MINOR flaws BH kicks them out even though they pass DoD specs. Basically, it is like XM193 but maybe XM262 would be appropriate.... So you don't have to wait... Cabela's has some in stock right now. I just ordered 500 rounds and should be delivered in a day or so. It is about $27 per box of 50. That is comparable to BH 68g or 75g RED box... as the MK262 is NEW as well. I wanted NATO pressured, sealed and cann'ed for my 1/7's. Before Sierra???'s post, I was hesitant in buying cosmetic seconds. His post put those fears to rest. I look forward to getting my blemished MK262's... Rmpl  |
Fixed for you. |
cabelas has mk262 in stock right now?? Im going to the one in ft worth this weekend I hope they have some in stock. How does this stuff fare in a 16" bushmaster 1-9 ? |
just kidding
I don't know about their individual stores but the web site has it listed IN STOCK... Shipping was only $13.00 via UPS. Rmpl 
|
|
Thanks alot guys. For the cost of 500 rounds of XM193 I just sent an order to Cabela's for 150 rounds of this. When want becomes need stupid things happen.  Just figured I HAD to have some. Did any of you happen to see the Winchester Tracers they have on sale for $7.99 per 20? If they're the same, I ran across some of these in the Owatonna Cabela's some months back and IIRC they're Q3270s. 60 grn. tracers. FWIW. Thanks again guys, Scott |
|
75 TAP is not better than Black Hills 77 regular and certainly not as good as Black Hills NATO. Unrelated to this post, but I chronoed Federal 69 and Black Hills blue box 77 in my 20 inch upper: 69 is 2791 at muzzle 77 is 2634 at muzzle I don't have a number but I remembe the 75 TAP being slower than the 77 blue box. |
Dr. Gary Roberts, in another thread said that the 75gr Hornadys terminal performance is better than the 77gr sierra match king that Black Hills currently uses. I thought the only thing that was better in terminal performance was the 77gr Nosler, but he also said that the 77gr Nosler was only equally effective to the 75gr Hornady. 
|
I'm somewhat confused here.... your complaining you can't get any of the Mod262 ammo, but you haven't actually shot any of it through your 16" Bushmaster 1/9 twist rifle??????? So you have no clue whether these rounds are compatible with your current rifle barrels length and twist..... I'd suggest ya buy a box of the blue-box 77grn. SMK ammo which is the same bullet IIRC used in the Mod262 and see if your 16" 1/9 twist barrel will hold decent groups using it. Especially before whinning ya can't get any. FWIW, I shoot the BH "blue-box" 77grn. SMK in all my 1/7 twist M4s and and am perfectly happy with it as it's cheaper to stock in mass quantities than the NATO pressure load (not too mention suspect it's abit easier on barrel life). It certainly groups well in all my rifles, and although I have some the Hornady 75grn MHPBT rounds they just don't shoot as tightly in my rifle as the SMKs. (granted they are considered better from a defensive purpose) Mike ps - personally I don't think the 77grn SMKs are that bad from a defensive bullet standpoint, inside the 200 yard mark while it's still cooking along at a pretty good velocity and inside 100 yards it has blown some respectable exit holes in various critters we've used them on.... |
They are not, and they beat M193. But since the 75grs have are closer to the 'ideal wound profile' I prefer them. |
|
If I am not mistaken, BHA uses the same bullet (75 otm) as Hornady 75 TAP. If that is correct and quality is equal (I know BHA quality is excellent), then the only difference would be velocity. Granted, I have heard that Hornady has with special request, higher pressure rounds for LE/Military. But if you can not obtain the "special" high pressure rounds, I'm cuious why Hornady would be considered better than BHA? |
|
Mr. Wilson, did you every have problems with bullets getting pushed down without the cannelure on the 77's? I'm betting probably not but I'm just curious. Jeff, my curiosity is up on this nato load cabela's is selling. Is this going to be a regular item for them????? I'm cheap but I just may have to try this stuff.
|
|
Here are some pics of the MK262 "seconds" I just received from Cabela's. I do not have a range report yet but I expect it to be on par with the MK262 that ships to military... This is just one box of 50, so I assume others are similiar as they look similiar... All of them use 2004 Winchester brass (WCC 04). There appears to be some dust/powder on most rounds, mainly around primer sealant. Probably from the polishing process. Some bullet hollow points had debris stuck in them as shown below, again, probably from polishing process. I'd say 5-10% had bullet seated just at or past cannelure, while others were right in the middle.   The only blems worth notice out of 50 rounds are below. From L to R: dent / scrape along length of brass / debris in hollow point / dent / neck pimple  I am satisfied with these "seconds" and if range results is as expected, I would trust these in a real life engagement... Rmpl  |
Well, until the archive server is up and running, I'll have to cut and paste a range report I posted about this ammo back on 7/18/04.
Range was 100yds (I left that out of the report). |
I thought these answers were pretty self evident to anyone paying attention around here--
The Hornady 75gr bullet has a shorter neck in its wound profile (it yaws earlier) than the 77gr SMK. The 75gr TAP is crimped into the cannelure, while the BH 75gr offerings have no cannelure. Muzzle velocity affects the "most effective" range. FWIW, here is some chrono data, from my 17" 1:7.7 Krieger- XM193 - 3270fps (23) 75gr TAP (civ) - 2652fps (31) FGMM77gr - 2575fps (30) 75gr BH (blue box) - 2602 (44) ETA: There's something about the Sierra vs. Hornady ogive dimensions that affects the yaw rate. Also note that the 75gr Hornady has a higher published BC than the Sierra 77gr OTM. This is not real surprising since Sierra bullets have lower BC's than their competition across the board (e.g. Lapua & Berger vs. Sierra in .30 caliber match bullets). |
Ordered on Monday arrived via UPS on Friday. $13.00 shipping. Cabela's shipping is "total sale" based so I could have ordered another 500 or more for the same $13 shipping. Thanks brouhaha for the archived range report. Your results are what I'm expecting... Rmpl
|
So the 75gr TAP shouldn't be any better in terminal performance then the Black Hills 75gr, right??? Since they both use the same 75gr Hornady bullet with cannelure. |
|
To clarify, my first response in this thread was an answer to, "if not then what is the next best thing, im sick of waiting for black hills to get it together." If real Mk262mod1 is available, then it may be best. (WRT the yaw rate Hornady vs. Sierra, it would seem a "Mk262" with the Hor 75gr would be a better choice.) Since the whole point of the Mk262Mod1 discussion here is for use as defensive ammunition, the dented cases pictured by Rmplstlskn rule it out IMO. Don't tell me you're going to purposefully load dented cases and/or nonuniform case necks in your defense mags? That's just asking for trouble. -z |
|
After digging into the 500 rounds of MK262 I received from Cabela's, only 10 rounds had anything noticable like a dent or neck pimple. Two of the boxes I would swear were mistakenly boxed up as seconds when they were really firsts... they looked that good! The others, except for those 10 mentioned above, had only minor, VERY MINOR, blemishes. I took the worst of them (hard to say worst with this batch) and set them for range tests. The rest got put into my mags with the Magpul followers for a rainy day. I look to order more in the future as finances allow. I'm eventually going to faze out most of my M855 with the MK262... Rmpl 
|
|
That's all good info. I am going to stick with the 75gr TAP for now at least. It's a known entity. I can order it from any number of sources and know someone will have it in stock. The problem I have with the Mk262 stuff is availability. If I settle on a particular ammo I want to be able to practice with it at least now and then. TAP and Mk262 shoot drastically different POI than XM193 in all 3 of my ARs, as much as 5 inches difference in the 11.5" SBR. So when I am out playing around with 193, I have to shoot a box or so of my defense ammo to get the sights/red dot/scope (whichever it is on that rifle) back in place and verify it. So, even though it's defensive use only ammo, I go through a good amount of the stuff. |
| I shoot CMP ammo for practice. 69 grain Federal. It is 1/2 the price of Mk262 if you are a CMP affiliated club. It suspect it has good results in gel. And we know it is accurate. I always keep the mags loaded in case I need them for defense, but I use it for CMP practice. |
| texas sig, doesn't the 75 tap shoot to a different poi than m193? In my rifle it shoots alot higher. It seems to me the higher the velocity the lower it shoots. At least for me. Just curious. Also, I hope jeff responds back about how long he estimates this offering will go for at cabela's. Fulton Armory also has it but it's about $ 40 more expensive for 500 rounds. But, it seems as though there is an availability out there right now. Probably more so than m193. Maybe I'm wrong about that though. |
Yeah. Gosh, it isn't even close. The TAP shoots 5 inches or so off of XM193 at 100 yards. So much that I have to re=zero when moving between the 2. A couple of inches I could deal with but it's a massive difference. That's why I stick with TAP. Mk262 does the same thing vs. Xm193 so I feel like I need to re-zero before I leave the range. So, I'm using 10 rounds of TAP every time I shoot at the range, cause I have to put it back like I need it. |
| I think a "MK262 w/ hornady bullet" = NATO pressure 75gr. TAP. That is the best in my opinion. Hornady bullet, high velocity (NATO pressure), crimped primers, cannelured bullet. What is better than that for 5.56mm? It took some effort, but I have two cases of the stuff and will get more as funds permit. |
|
Just ordered some from Cabela's!!!!! If I like it (if it's pretty accurate), I'm going to buy a bunch. Well a bunch for me. It looks like even with shipping if you order 500 from cabela's it's still cheaper than fulton armory. Texas sig, I know what you mean. I got a tip for you. If you can try some of the saami spec'd 55 grainers. I found that the 55 grain fmj umc had a very similar poi to the hornady 75 grain bthp's. I'm not sure about winchester or not. I don't know if you're issued the stuff and you're stuck but I thought I'd tell you what I found. 
|
The only thing that might be better than that would be "MK262 MOD 0", 77gr with a Nosler bullet. The only problem is it doesn't exist anymore. 
|
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - mk262 77gr (Page 1 of 3)
AR Sponsor