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Posted: 2/10/2005 12:52:57 PM EDT
| Why are there not more tracers on the market. Is there a reason that Wolf or other cheap Mfr. would not make it. |
Not sure if there's really a market for tracers. Who really wants it? I think they are frowned upon in a lot of places to shoot; and some states they are illegal to shoot. |
| Unless you are shooting over 100yds. you dont really need a tracer. Of course, that is in "real world" situations. Lets face it, tracers will take your ordinary day at the range and "color" it up a bit. The only problem is, they have a problem of setting fire to just about anything you want to shoot at if you can hit it enough. Especially the orange ones here |
It's also irresponsible. Where are those bullets impacting?
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The ground is where they impacted.  Spend any time at a range and listen to the rounds that impact any target. Then go stand behind the berm and listen to the impacts. No outdoor range, and no target, stops 100% of the rounds when fired, unless you are using a bullet trap. I have watched rounds fired at 45 degree angles from an elevated 40' bluff impact dirt and STILL leap over 1000 feet in the air. Rounds fired 'responsibly' at steel targets have skipped up, and made impressive arcs as well. They have also skipped BACK and made an even greater impression. The same is true for every outdoor range. No matter how safe it might look, and no matter how safe you might *feel* by shooting in to a berm, your rounds are not all staying in that dirt bank. Ask any range owner that is worth a damn, and they can tell you what percentages of rounds are leaving thier property. TRG PS. Then ask ETH the distance to his nearest neighbor. I don't have a weapon that can make a 9 mile flight. |
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At my first night shoot at a machinegun shoot, I was SHOCKED to see how rounds ricochet. All rounds can do this, but with the tracers it was just easier to see. One of our local outdoor ranges has a 50-yard pistol range next to the 100-yard rifle range. The ranges are separated by a berm and there is a huge berm at the end of each range. When you're putting up targets at the 100-yard line, it's not rare to hear rounds from the pistol range whiz overhead.  Regarding tracers, I agree that there isn't a huge market for them. The belt-fed guns at night get a lot of tracer use, but that's about it. |
And you know for a fact that nobody was wandering around on nearby property?
There's a huge difference in having a round skip over a berm and purposely putting rounds God know's where. I will agree that what you guys do is cool looking. And likely harmless. But there's always a chance, and Murphy is a real jerk. He'll get you when you're least expecting it and spoil a real fun weekend. Then again, I didn't find anything safe when I was there...which is why I haven't been back. |
According to your posted 'rule' you should also not assume that nobody is wandering around behind the berms you are using. Either you are hypocritical of the assumption that West Texas is West-By-God-Texas or you are hypocritical for not clearing the impact area behind your own berms. Which is it? Anytime you pull a trigger you make an assumption about the bullet impact. I assume West Texas, with the nearest neighbor 9 miles away is just about the safest place I can pull a trigger.
That is always the case and is the reason why most people always keep safety on their mind when shooting. No matter their location.
No... the reason you have not been back is because you wear your halo much too tight. When you decide to piss in a punchbowl and call it lemonade, you can expect to wear out a welcome. In your world, your shit may not stink, but to the rest of us you leave something be desired when it comes to tact, hospitality and common courtesy. TRG |
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You don't like me. Fine. Plenty of others do. Those who are respectful get treated with respect from me. If you want to post about how you don't like me, do it in GD or in the Pit. This is not the place for personal insults. Keep it ammo related. That's all I ask. Now I think I'm gonna go cry into my ammo stash. |
yes but you can name those on one hand. We see a huge group of people in the Texas forum which you are not a part of. You were to much of a snob to even go to Gunstock this year. Never see you going to ANY of the get togethers with the Houston group. I guess they are sick of your self righteous attitude as well.
Hypocrite, read your post above. 
A river? Stick to your geletin tests, thats what your good at.  |
TRG -tell us how you really feel 
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I'll just let this go before this thread vanishes. You already know my point of view about your comments. TRG |
The thread won't vanish (by my hand anyway) as long as this stays on topic. Yes, I do know your feelings. And you know mine. Now if you really dislike me so much, go start a Brou hating thread in the Pit. Now, regarding new tracers...very few components are suplused anymore. So the stuff you tend to get is old and may not trace like it's supposed to. There is a way to make your own, however. I remember seeing "kits" for it in the past. Unfortunately, I can't remember the name. Maybe somebody can post a link. |
I've been thinking about this comment and don't understand what you mean by "they get pretty hot." Unless I'm missing something, doesn't the tracer compound start to burn after like 75-yards? I know the ones I've shot didn't burn until about that distance. Tracers don't burn anything in the barrel, do they? I always thought tracers causing your barrel to heat up faster and causing faster barrel wear were a myth, urban legend if you will. Bro, can you or someone else confirm this for me? BTW, BreakFreeHuffer, welcome to the site! 
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The M196, in MY experience, takes much less time to light than the M856. I've had M196 lit as it left the barrel (per photographic evidence). It may have been lit IN the barrel too. M856 is a much longer range tracer, and it tends to take 50yds or more to light. Of course, this isn't always a given. There's too many variables. Anyway, they aren't likely to do any barrel damage. Just make sure to scrub your barrel afterwards in case some of the trace compound got left behind. A few rounds of ball ammo should also clear that out. |
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Great, thanks for the explanation. I’ve only used the M856 (from Ammoman). Speaking of M856, after I bought some I found out the bullet is longer (because of the cavity needed for the trace compound) than M855 and a faster twist than 1:9 is usually required to stabilize the bullet. Of course, had I read the ammo oracle first I would have known. Doh! I still haven’t tried any M196, but will get the chance in March. |
Yeah, the bullet is incredibly long. I'll have to check, but I think it's longer than 75gr hornady (which is actually longer than 77gr Nosler). A 1/7 is needed to stabilize. |
No links on the web that I have found to be valid. TRG |
. I would like some for a .22lr but I am not paying $0.50/shot.
I have seen several grass fries from tracers. As a matter of fact, the only time I have not seen tracer fire is when they were fired Up and in to the Wild Blue Yonder. Otherwise, you would easily have grass fires at 1000 yards away from richochets. We had a couple of fires start on the far side of a river after the rounds were fired down in to the sand, fro mthe 45 degree angle on the 40' bluff. After richocheting from even such an extreme angle, they arced up, landed and lit fires. Luckily, they self-extinguished since we had no effective way to reach the fire site, or fight the fires... TRG |
Ever seen the Knob Creek Night Shoot? They set the hills on fire for sure darn near every year. And they bounce all over God's green acre too. When the Mini's open up with tracers they splatter all over down range going all over, make you wander where all the rounds that you can't see are going.
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Are you trying to say rounds bounce when they hit the earth? You mean like this...? http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v430/Simon520/tracerpic.jpg Note fires started by tracers. Most folks are shooting 100% tracers. The shoot has an on-site fire control squad with hundreds of gallons of water, multiple vehicles, and a fire sqad of about 20, all reserve firemen who work the firelines when the fires get big. |
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