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Posted: 1/19/2004 11:33:55 AM EDT
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I've 20" Colt MT6700 that I am free floating the 1/9 twist barrel on. When finished, this rifle will have a receiver-mounted scope. I plan to use this on coyotes and other varmints, and would like to shoot targets at 500 t0 600 yards. What ammo should I be looking at for these ranges? Any suggestions would be appreciated. |
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Mick, Well we have something in common! I have a colt too. It seems like we are the minority here. Bushmasters lead the way I think. I'm just kind of kidding. I've never shot at 500 or 600 yards so you can take everything I say with a grain of salt. But, any of the 69 grain or 68 grain loadings would probably do well for the long range stuff. Federal loads it in the Gold Medal target stuff. (expensive). Black hills loads 68 and 69 grainers as well as many other loadings. Check out Georgia Precision Shooting Supplies or Midway Shooting Supplies. For coyotes and varmints any commercial bullet that expands would do. Really anything will do. You'll just have to start experimenting with what rounds shoot good for you. Ballistic tips seem like the way to go for varmints. All the manufactures load them. The neat thing about the .223 round is there are so many choices!!!!!!!!!! Happy hunting |
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Quoted: Why would you use a 5.56 round at 500-600 yards? Way too far for such a small round. Well, he said he wants to use it on targets at 600 yards, and the AR15 is the dominant rifle in highpower service rifle competition right now on the 600 yard line, so I guess it's not really too far for such a small round. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Why would you use a 5.56 round at 500-600 yards? Way too far for such a small round. Well, he said he wants to use it on targets at 600 yards, and the AR15 is the dominant rifle in highpower service rifle competition right now on the 600 yard line, so I guess it's not really too far for such a small round. So you honestly think you can hit small game at 600 meters with .223 out of a battle rifle? That would be a tough shot for my Rem. 700PSS shooting match .308. I guess you guys just shoot better than I do, because I can't get my Oly PCR1 to group sub MOA much beyond 200 yards and I doubt any AR-15 will group 2moa at 600 meters. Hence, the best group I could dream of would be 1 foot at 600 yards. That doesn't hack it. Am I wrong or do you guys have equipment so far beyond mine that you can pull it off? |
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Factory ammo? Best bet is the Fed 77gn GMM, or the Hornady 75gn Match stuff(often sold under the TAP label). Factory stuff is a little sad compared to handloads in this field, but those are the two most avilable options. HSM and the smaller places sell similar products, and the CMP is another excellent source for LR match ammo. Handloading is the way to go however. I routinely shoot sub-MOA 20 shot groups at 600yds. Most decent highpower shooters can. S/F...Ken M |
| echo six mike, is it the rifle of the indian. Did you have your rifle tuned by somebody? What kind is yours? Does it have a heavy barrel or govt style. I've heard said that some of the military competiters actually have to use govt' style with govt' ammo!!! Can they compete with those? |
| I have four different AR's, not counting the M16A2 I'm issued. The one I use for competition is an old Eagle Arms, with Kreiger barrel, floated and 1/3 MOA NM sights and Kreiger/Millazo trigger. It's a full spec NM service rifle. That said, my younger brother won the Collegiate Trophy at Perry in 97 or 98 with a stock heavy barreled Colt upper, with only two stage trigger and NM sights. He shot over 97% for 240 shots. S/F...Ken M |
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What's an NM rifle? National Match. For me that refers to the square, sharply bladed front sight, 1/4 or 1/2 MOA clicks, and a two stage trigger. Floated barrel is optional. What does your trigger break at? 4.5lbs, minimum per rules. I've got a Sporter Target model colt with 1/7 twist. Pre ban. In your opinion can this be competitive at all with the right ammo? Should be no problems, to at least Master class, if she'll do 1 inch at 100 yds with a 75 or 77gn bullet(or even a fast 69 gn load) you'll have no problems. I use 24.0 RL15 in a Win case, WSR primer, 75gn Hornady seated to 2.255 OAL. This is a tame load that shoots extremely well in my rifle. Same charge of N140 works too. Also good are Varget, IMR 4895 and even AA2520. S/F...Ken M |
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Federal xm193 ammo is even fun to shoot at 600 yards for plinking if you don't mind a few misses(OK lots of misses). It's fun to try and dope the wind and try to hit clay pidgeons. You can watch the bullet kinda "drop-in" on the target area with a good scope. Try it with over 5mph winds and you may get real frustrated. Handloads with Sierra 69gr make up my next level of plinking ammo. I was going to hunt coyotes with that bullet but got an AR 10. |
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echosixmike, thank you thank you for your replies. I'm in a quandry about shooting for accuracy. When you're trying out rounds to see how they group, do you put a scope on? My quandry is, I'm not good enough yet to know how good ammo is shooting if I'm just using irons. I don't think anyways. Last summer I shot once real scientifically. The best group I got was 1-1/4" (5 shots) at 50 yards with hornady's loaded cartridge 75 grainer. When I shot at 100 the best I could get was 3-7/8". This was with irons. Now I don't shoot that much but I consider myself a pretty good shot. With a pistol when I do testing I can consistently get (5 shot) groups under 2" with the right ammo for that Pistol. With the irons. Which from what I've read is pretty good with stock type pistols. I will expound if you want me to in the future. So I must have some hand - eye co-ordination. I'm not saying I'm a national competitor I'm just saying I have enough skill to get a pistol to group well. But like I was saying my quandry is I made a decision to just shoot the irons on my ar to get good, but then I can't really tell which load is the best or how good the gun really is. Because I'm sure the gun is better than me, I just don't know how to figure out how good the gun is. Do you get what I mean? What is or was your method of finding the right load ? Do you just shoot closer and compare, then start shooting farther out? Or scope it or what? Get as detailed as you want, if you would like to that is. You've been real nice telling me what you know so far and I doubt I'm going to beat you later on or something because I'm just getting started and I don't even know If I'll ever get to compete, but I would sure like to. So any information you'd like to give up is appreciated. I guess I'll have to learn how to handload, ha? Are you a marine? Gordon, it does sound like fun. |
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[quoteWhen you're trying out rounds to see how they group, do you put a scope on? You can, it's nice to have a flat top if you're going to do this. Normally for accuracy testing, I shoot 5- 10shot rapid fire 300 yd strings, timed but not sweating the time. I find that I usually shoot best when firing rapid fire without having time to overthink the shooting. I look for nice consistant groups, without uncalled flyers. At 300yds, I consistantly shoot 2-3" groups from the slung prone off a mat with shooting coat. You can bench the gun too, but I prefer to shoot the weapon as I do in competition. You've been real nice telling me what you know so far and I doubt I'm going to beat you later on or something because I'm just getting started and I don't even know If I'll ever get to compete, but I would sure like to. Where are you located? I can probably refer you to someone who can get you heading in the right direction. If not I'm sure Sinister can. Most highpower shooters go out of their way to help the new guys, helps to expand the sport. Yes, I'm a Marine. 4 years active, going on 8 years reserve. S/F...Ken M |
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echosixmike, I was typing and lost it all oh well. First thing is: thank you for serving in the military. My grandpa died in ww2 in france. I humbly and very thankful for that. And your service too. I live in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. There is a guy that left a pamphlet for a class every tuesday. His name is Jim Owens. His web address is www.jarheadtop.com. Maybe he's a marine too. Ya think? Anyways, thanks for the info. Do you handload for all ranges or just 600 and longer or what? |
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You're in luck, I'm down here, just outside the PRC(People's Republic of Chicago). Jim's a good guy. IIRC, it's either Wednesday or Thursday night at Racine County Line for highpower practice in the summer. Otherwise, get ahold of Jim and he can get you the 10 state HP schedule of all the matches run in the Midwest. I handload everything. I fire 2-3K of match 5.56 every year, if I didn't handload, I'd be broker than I am now. S/F...Ken M |
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I may be in luck. I want to but I don't know if I'll be able to go through the whole course this year. I'll email him and see what's up. Worst case scenario, maybe I could attend this year and save up some money for the next time. So handloading saves money ha? I've heard that before. I have no equipment for handloading yet but that's another avenue I'd like to get into. What kind of press do you use? Is it a single or many, (progressive?). Do you use a chronograph also? |
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Look at reloading equipment as a long term investment. Currently, ammoman is selling 223 match ammo for $.65.rnd. Last time I checked, albiet a few years ago, I can reload for about $.30/rnd. Figuring at 2 matches/month, 8 shooting months per year, that's a $492 savings per year from reloading not counting practice and plinking. I also reload 45 ACP, 45 Colt, 9mm, 308 and 30-06. On the 45 ACP and 9m the savings aren't as big, maybe only $.05/rnd but on the others the savings are just as big. My #'s aren't exact, but you can get the gist of what I'm saying. For a reloader I use a Dillon 550. Depending on how the press throws the powder, and the purpose of the ammo, I might weigh and adjust each charge or I might just weigh every 5th or 10th just to be sure. If the Dillon won't throw the powder good enuf, it has poblems with the long grain powders, I use an RCBS Uniflow Powder Measure. For my 223 match ammo, I use 2520, which throws good, and all my loading is done on the Dillon. |
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Thank You. I may be wrong but even though you only save a little on the 9mm, is it more accurate than the cheap stuff? In my Taurus the cheaper stuff (umc, winchester white box, etc) doesn't group well at all. Higher quality stuff groups real well. In that gun, you get what you pay for. People say reloading should enhance accuracy. Correct? J.J. |
| Reloading enhances consistancy and lets you tailor loads specific to your firearm's likes. All of my match loads are sized and trimmed and lotted by loading day. I don't weigh and lot casing and bullets like some do; I don't think it would make any difference for me at this stage. Also, I like cast loads for my pistols to clang steel with and not worry about pockmarking it. In my P85 loves the el cheapo stuff. It won't win a bullseye match but it will consistantly shoot center mass at 25 yds and that's all I require from it. It doesn't like reduced loads however so everything through it is a full-spec load. High quality stuff? Except for the occasional Hydra-shoks for familiarzation it's never tasted anything but the $6.99 special stuff. If I gave it some good stuff it might get a case of the ego and demand a gold plated holster or something like that. [:)] |
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