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Posted: 10/31/2003 5:33:57 PM EDT
I'm looking at buying a new upper for my Bushmaster and was wondering if any of the experts here had serious comparable ballistics on these two calibers. Looking for numbers at 0-100, 100-200 meters w/standard rounds and 16'bbl. Does LeMas make RBCD ammo in these calibers?

ViCAP
Link Posted: 10/31/2003 5:48:46 PM EDT
cousins....this would be like analyzing 45-70 vs. 450 Marlin.....truthfully... If you are a reloader the 458 SOCOM is easily the better choice as there are projectiles ranging from 250gr-600gr. The necked down case seems to negotiate the curved 30rd mags better too, at least in my limited knowledge...which is kind of limited, but not really. [;)] They are both excellent rounds but I would vote for the 458 SOCOM every time. Every time.
Link Posted: 10/31/2003 6:53:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SHIVAN: If you are a reloader the 458 SOCOM is easily the better choice as there are projectiles ranging from 250gr-600gr. The necked down case seems to negotiate the curved 30rd mags better too
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One of the very reasons I bought mine.
They are both excellent rounds but I would vote for the 458 SOCOM every time. Every time.
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Plus, the designer of the .458 is VERY approachable. In fact, he posts here quite often. It's not difficult to get tech support from him.
Link Posted: 10/31/2003 7:30:50 PM EDT
Without knowing too much about it, the thing that concerns me with the .50 is the lack of crimp. Also the potential for feed problems. As you say, the necked-down .458 might feed more reliably without having to alter the mags. I wasn't aware there was a 600gr in the .458. I'll keep looking for some comparison numbers though before I buy.
Link Posted: 10/31/2003 7:44:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/4/2003 11:47:00 AM EDT by SHIVAN]
Here you go......I did the work for you. You're welcome......[;)] [url=http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=167925&w=searchPop]Info Link...[/url]
Link Posted: 11/3/2003 2:52:03 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SHIVAN: ...at least in my limited knowledge...which is kind of limited, but not really. [;)]
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Ohh, I know where I can use that one. [;)]
Link Posted: 11/4/2003 11:10:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By VICAP: Without knowing too much about it, the thing that concerns me with the .50 is the lack of crimp. Also the potential for feed problems. As you say, the necked-down .458 might feed more reliably without having to alter the mags.
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The Lee dies for the Beowulf come with a seperate crimping die, so it is not a problem. My beowulf gets fed from STANDARD USGI mags UNALTERED... and never hiccups. I did have problems acquiring things when I went to get set up with everything especially Brass. Alexander arms did straighten out everything for me. I have No experience with the .458, but I have never heard ANYONE bitch about it.
Link Posted: 11/5/2003 8:20:28 AM EDT
Do u fellas hunt with these??? Looks like a good hog gun.
Link Posted: 11/5/2003 9:20:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ATLGA: Do u fellas hunt with these??? Looks like a good hog gun.
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This is Tony Rumore of Tromix... [img]http://www.tromix.com/2001_new_images_2/Tony_w_hog_wq_gf.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 11/5/2003 5:36:33 PM EDT
Yeah but the question is...will that .458 take down a grizzly better than .223?? :) heh... From the tromix website: "The 458 SOCOM turns your .223 mouse gun, into a portable piece of field artillery capable of dispatching even the largest beasts around the world." cool.
Link Posted: 11/5/2003 6:45:57 PM EDT
UH OH, I'm in trouble I'm feeling the urge for portable field artillery. [BD]
Link Posted: 11/6/2003 2:13:11 PM EDT
The Beowolf operates at a significant lower pressure than the .458. The Grendel they are developing is quite a cartridge also. $.02
Link Posted: 11/6/2003 3:38:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Naked80: The Beowolf operates at a significant lower pressure than the .458.
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Not true. They both operate at a max of 35k psi. Info about the .458 is straight from Marty, and info on the Beowulf is straight from the AA website.
Link Posted: 11/6/2003 4:36:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By brouhaha: [red]Info about the .458 is straight from Marty,[/red] and info on the Beowulf is straight from the AA website.
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I'd rather have it from a published source.
Link Posted: 11/6/2003 4:47:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/6/2003 4:50:06 PM EDT by SHIVAN]
Originally Posted By Naked80:
Originally Posted By brouhaha: [red]Info about the .458 is straight from Marty,[/red] and info on the Beowulf is straight from the AA website.
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I'd rather have it from a published source.
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[>:/] Fine. Supply YOUR published source that states it's SIGNIFICANTLY higher. Please? I'll wait for the source of this data. Since it's not available in a published location not sure where you are going to get it from that will satisfy YOUR requirements. Hmm.... Waiting..... Where's the published source for the Beowulf pressure data?
Link Posted: 11/6/2003 5:07:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/6/2003 5:28:24 PM EDT by brouhaha]
Originally Posted By Naked80:
Originally Posted By brouhaha: [red]Info about the .458 is straight from Marty,[/red] and info on the Beowulf is straight from the AA website.
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I'd rather have it from a published source.
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Uhh...you DO know that Marty INVENTED the 458 SOCOM, right? He spec'd the brass to 35k PSI. You can't get a much better source than the inventor. Oh, and you would consider a website to be a published source? If that's the case, I can start a new page on my website and simply state "The .458 SOCOM maxes out at 35k PSI". Is that published enough? [;D]
Link Posted: 11/6/2003 7:30:19 PM EDT
Brou, Shivan - thanks, guys Naked80 - As stated, the .458 SOCOM was spec'ed at a MAWP of 35,000 psi. The brass was spec'ed with Starline at that pressure, and that is also the pressure max to which the CorBon loads are developed. As to published source, as was stated as well, I developed the round. CorBon has the test rifle with which they develop the rounds and determine MAWP. Would that suffice? I do not know where the information originated that suggests the .458 SOCOM operates at significantly higher pressure than the Beowulf. I realize that some handloaders out there have pushed the envelope and loaded to a significantly higher pressure, but the same has been done with just about any cartridge. We have no control over that. We have a report of one person using a load that should have exceeded 100,000 psi, and lived to tell about it. Regarding the Beowuld and Grendel, at GunStock, Bill Alexander and I had adjoining booths and enjoyed playing "you show me yours and I'll show you mine". And I REALLY like his little Grendel ... 6.5 is a beautiful caliber. Marty ter Weeme Founder, Teppo Jutsu LLC Home of the .458 SOCOM [url]www.teppojutsu.com[/url]
Link Posted: 11/7/2003 4:07:14 AM EDT
[}:D]
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