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Posted: 11/3/2003 12:05:46 PM EDT
[#1]
My wife is a lawyer and I still can't blame the guy. The lawyer sucked him dry and the guy snapped. Most lawyers are bottom dwellers. I work with several lawyers and each one would stab me in the back if they could make a few bucks for it. Snakes!
As for Confederate, there's a lot of truth to his theory about cops. The ones I know were flunkies in high school. Many were bullies, the kind that act tough but once you pop them in the face, they'd go crying to mommy. |
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Posted: 11/3/2003 12:50:07 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted: My wife is a lawyer and I still can't blame the guy. The lawyer sucked him dry and the guy snapped. Most lawyers are bottom dwellers. I work with several lawyers and each one would stab me in the back if they could make a few bucks for it. Snakes! As for Confederate, there's a lot of truth to his theory about cops. The ones I know were flunkies in high school. Many were bullies, the kind that act tough but once you pop them in the face, they'd go crying to mommy. The lawyer was in no danger at any time. Everyone knows you can't kill a blood sucking vampire with a gun. |
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Posted: 11/3/2003 8:47:58 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted: Quoted: Simple question: Had that happened in a free state could a citizen have capped that fvcker with minimal retribution? Shivan, the way I understand the law (at least in NC) is, yes, you could have legally used deadly force to prevent the attacker from shooting the lawyer. The criterion is that the person you are defending has to retain the right of self-defense and was not the instigator. Here lies the problem.... Let's say you walk into a 7-11 and observe a young, scruffy guy getting ready to cap an old man. Your initial impression is that the old man is being attacked with lethal force and you feel justified in drilling the young kid to protect the old man. What you missed was that the old man actually started the confrontation and used a knife to attack the kid. The knife was knocked out of the old guys hand but the old guy still had not withdrawn from the confrontation, hence he was still the instigator and has lost the right of self-defense. Legally you have no right to come to his aid, as he can't legally defend himself. He must surrender and withdraw from the confrontation. Once that is done he regains the right of self-defense. If the young guy still pursues him after he surrenders then you could legally protect him. If we use the lawyer on TV as the example its pretty safe to say that we have no idea what took place prior to the actual filming of the shooting. Let’s say that the lawyer may have tried to stab the fat guy with the pistol . Fat guy was just defending himself. I know it’s kind of far fetched but it illuminates how tricky this stuff is. Had that been the case then, no, you could not have legally defended the lawyer, as he didn’t possess the right of self-defense. Generally speaking CCWs are issued only to defend your self from deadly attack. In NC lethal force can also be used to prevent a deadly attack on another person, as long as that person possessed the right of self-defense (was not the instigator). Deadly force is also justified to prevent rape. Lot of gray areas in the use of deadly force and you can always assume that you'll be arrested and investigated any time deadly force is used. Of course I have a good friend who DOA'd an armed mugger in SC. No arrest, just a pat on the back from the local sheriff. Kind of a long-winded answer to your question but I think I got this right (if anyone catches an error please correct me). Paul In my VA CCW class we were instructed that one may use deadly force to protect a family member or someone for whom one has intimate knowledge. The basis, similar to that described for NC, is that, for example you find your neigbor one evening being held down and beaten by a couple of guy's you have never seen before outside the front door of her house. The case could be that your neigbor, unbeknownst to you is an international drug dealer and that two "guys" are undercover DEA officers. This reasoning was offered as a "safe" standard to keep one out of jail and is consistant with a strict reading of VA law and precident. |
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Posted: 11/3/2003 10:18:31 PM EDT
[#4]
Well we see the TN contingent is checking in as the I need one post per incoherent thought contingent.
The lady with the boobs hung up and dialed 911. Probably showed more cool in the face of a gunfight right in front of her than most of the bigmouths on here would. the shooter was in fact a sad case (read nutcase but them I'm being PC). He had been the subject of a trust. The trustee wouldn't spend the money he wanted her too, apparently part of the reason he had the money in the trust was he couldn't handle his own affairs. He was threatening the trustee so the new lawyer (the target) was representing her in being replaced as trustee. (Did a good job of keeping the tree between the gun and COM.) Capping on suspicion might be a nice posture to take here, but once he stopped shooting and was walking away, would not be legal most places. Also in as crowded an area as this was, unless you were a damn good shot you had a good chance of hitting an innocent bystander. Jumping him might be a good idea, lot of folks thought he had 2 guns when they saw the tape and/or witnessed the shooting. You want to jump a shooter with a gun go ahead. Aat leat take him from behind, and hope no cowboy is deciding to be a hero and cap him while your there. The Cops were right on top of him. This was a Courthouse, hmm, lots of Police there anyway, the Station less than a hundred yards away. Cameramen keep the film rolling, the Cops were already there and moving in, geez what a surprise, they didn't drop the cameras. See the complete tape, hear the complete story and the picture is a lot clearer and a lot more complex. |
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Posted: 11/4/2003 1:40:16 AM EDT
[#5]
Dont hold back, tell us how you really feel.
If you are looking for a post from some LEO attacking you for this post, well you are not going to get it from me. Sounds like you have issues, and nothing is going to change that. Too bad, I guess you will never know. Most cops are just hard working guys, just like you. Quoted: Quoted: Well, statistically I'm sure cops live more than the bad guys. They have better training and are usually smarter to start with. Yeah, well by my statistics, most cops are mentally deficient, ex-jock-rejected-by-the-marine-corps-cause-they-were'nt-good-enough, sadistic, loser fucks, that try to rationalize their abuses, and enforcement of unconstitutional laws with the old Nazi SS standby phrase of "I was only following orders." Always remember that those who volunteer for positions of power are those who are most likly to abuse it. p.s. By the way, all you cops out there that refer to us as "civilians" need to stop your stupid shit. You are not a soldier, a police officer is a "CIVIL SERVANT". Not a soldier of an occupying army. YOU ARE CIVILIANS. Remember that the next you are fucking over a "civilian". You know.. the one who is paying your salary. |
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Posted: 11/4/2003 1:47:39 AM EDT
[#6]
Just a thought...
You say why dont the bystanders do anything. Well, I will tell you what, if I was standing there unarmed, and this guy was shooting at someone, and I didn't get to count shots, and was not sure it was a revolver, then I am going to run for cover and be a good witness. What if he had more rounds in the weapon? As a police officer, I would say that the off duty deputy was lucky. Good for him to tackle the guy, and no one else got hurt. Of course, most people here realize that if you were armed ,and saw this, the guy would be fitted for a box. The above scenario where the knife was used earlier, blah blah, well you can see no knife in his hand, so there is no threat. Just some lunatic trying to kill someone who is defenseless. Just my .02 |
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Posted: 11/4/2003 6:50:52 AM EDT
[#7]
this story is not listed under fox's top stories, the video is not under their video section, and a search for jerry curry reveals only sept. 11 pages on their website. can you give a link?
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Posted: 11/5/2003 4:38:35 PM EDT
[#8]
Being a large caliber fan for pistols i would have preferred a .45 ACP, however I feel compelled to remind everybody that its not about the caliber as much as shot placement. The .38 special for the record has been responsible for countless bodies assuming room temperature since it was developed in the late 1800s.
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Posted: 11/5/2003 9:19:12 PM EDT
[#9]
I also am a fan of the 45 ACP. And yes shot placement is vital to incapacitation.
On the other hand, if I got hit in the shoulder with a sledge hammer at 850 fps, it would take the fight right out of me. |
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Posted: 11/6/2003 4:51:12 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: this story is not listed under fox's top stories, the video is not under their video section, and a search for jerry curry reveals only sept. 11 pages on their website. can you give a link? It's only on CNN. They are the only ones with any video footage. You don't think they would just GIVE footage to their competition, do you? |
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Posted: 11/6/2003 9:15:47 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted: Quoted: this story is not listed under fox's top stories, the video is not under their video section, and a search for jerry curry reveals only sept. 11 pages on their website. can you give a link? It's only on CNN. They are the only ones with any video footage. You don't think they would just GIVE footage to their competition, do you? Wrong, I watched the footage on foxnews.com. Unfortunately I don't have a link to the story or the footage, sorry. |
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Posted: 11/6/2003 4:45:45 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted: this story is not listed under fox's top stories, the video is not under their video section, and a search for jerry curry reveals only sept. 11 pages on their website. can you give a link? [url]http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/files/specials/videolineups/video_iframe.html?videoName=1031ca_shooting&videoHeadline=Man%20shoots%20attorney%20outside%20courthouse[/url] |
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Posted: 11/6/2003 6:42:10 PM EDT
[#13]
I have only been able to read about half of the posts and I want to make a brief comment........the attorney was able to use what ever cover was available and dancing behind that little ass tree saved his life. I only saw the end of the two tapes (angles) and he walked to the street and fell to his knees in partial disbelief and shock. i dont know what happened after that.....
My question is what force was the most you could have gotten away with to stop the shooter from just walking away.....I commend the off duty officer for the tackle but lets say he was not there.... Would you tackle the guy or snap his neck or say stop or run your benchmade 950 into the soft spot at the base of his skull..... the crime had already been committed so what would be the correct thing to do.... by the way....she was talking to me on the phone (jk) |
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Posted: 11/7/2003 2:27:52 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted: I have only been able to read about half of the posts and I want to make a brief comment........the attorney was able to use what ever cover was available and dancing behind that little ass tree saved his life. As a law student, I have been trained to use survival tactics to avoid the wrath of unhappy clients. Dancing behind a tree was the subject of the third lecture in Professional Responsibility. Right after collecting the fee. It appears that the victim-attorney got at least a B in PR. =D ~AbM |
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Posted: 11/7/2003 12:56:57 PM EDT
[#15]
I agree with PaDanby and AZTrooper, be a good witness.
I only saw one guy in the whole video who was following "The First Rule of Gunfighting..." |
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Posted: 11/8/2003 8:51:26 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: Would you tackle the guy or snap his neck or say stop or run your benchmade 950 into the soft spot at the base of his skull..... No, I would probably go for the throat with my Benchmade 732SD2BT number 73 of 100. But just because it is what I have. [;)] |
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Posted: 11/9/2003 8:42:58 AM EDT
[#17]
Still no one has figured out what caliber revolver the fat man was firing?
FWIW, I think the lawyer did an incredible job saving his ass. I would have just shit in my pants in that situation. |
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Posted: 11/9/2003 7:16:47 PM EDT
[#18]
1. The whole thing looked so comical I thought it belonged on America's Funniest Home Videos. Trajic, yes I suppose, but still thought it was funny looking.
2. Lawyer holding his hands up, I thought he was thinking "WTF people! I've been shot! Are you pricks just going to stand there and keep filming or what? How about some freaking help? WTF!?!?" 3. It's a lawyer, more where he came from. 4. What an incompetant shooter. If I heard correctly, he even had a second handgun. It's like he got bored and gave up just because he revolver ran dry. Lazy incompetant shooter. The least he could have done was pistol whip the guy after he ran dry, that's part of the fun. 5. Dude, get a REAL handgun! Even women carry .44's up here in Alaska, that .22/.38 crap is for lower 48 urbanites. 6. All the security in court houses and this shows one can just wait outside to cap someone - they all got to go home sometime. 7. If you had normal citizens carrying concealed, someone could have possibly stopped that $hit. Here you don't even have to have a permit to carry. Damn straight. 8. Bet that lawyer may think about CCW now, or at least buy some body armor material/plates to put in his briefcase. Popular option for high end executive briefcases. 9. Treehugger! 10. Anyone got closeups of the booby girl? I missed it, dang it. Sorry, just my un-PC side having some sick twisted levity. |
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