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Posted: 9/12/2003 6:02:03 PM EDT
I've read through a bunch of posts that basically say don't use Wolf ammo in an AR-15 because it's bad for the rifle/barrel/whatever. I found lots of comments like "Why pour kerosene into the tank of a Corvette?". Anyways... it convinced me to order some Remington over Wolf, but I'm wondering now because the price from the place I bought it (cabelas) was $99 for 500 rounds of Remington and $99 for 1000 rounds of Wolf! Is it really worth twice the cost?! If it does ruin your gun, then after 10,000 rounds of Wolf I could buy a brand new rifle in ammo savings alone.

I'm sure the AK will still see alot more range use then my new AR since I don't have a problem using Wolf in it and the 7.62x39 is only $75/1000 rounds.
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 6:49:02 PM EDT
Some use Wolf with no problems. Some have had problems. If you shoot a lot, I'd encourage you to get a few boxes and try it out. I personally haven't had any trouble with it.
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 7:44:02 PM EDT
Please refer to the [url=http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=169729]Ammo review[/url] thread tacked to the top of the page. Wolf, probably more than any other ammo, has caused controversy on this board. There are a lot of people who swear by it, and some that swear AT it. If you read through the comment section, you'll notice that most people did not have SERIOUS problems. The odd stuck case here and there, bad smell, etc. It's certainly worth trying a 100 rounds or so before jumping to conclusions. I certainly wouldn't be buying Remington ammo for $200/case when you can get Q3131A or LC M193 for less than that.
Link Posted: 9/13/2003 2:59:19 AM EDT
No, Remington UMC is not worth twice as much as Wolf. But you are not a very smart shopper. With the online coupons we were getting SA M1A3, which is true M193 spec ammo, for LESS THAN WOLF. That deal has dried up, but you can still Get IMI M193, Fed XM193, or Win Q3131A, for less than you paid for Remington, and those loads are worht at least three times as much as Wolf. I would rather throw rocks down range, while yelling bang bang bang, than shoot Wolf.
Link Posted: 9/13/2003 3:01:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By zhukov: If you read through the comment section, you'll notice that most people did not have SERIOUS problems. The odd stuck case here and there, .
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What do you consider "serious"? AR15's are weapons, they must go bang every time the trigger is pulled, ammo related malfunctions can be avoided through proper ammo selection.
Link Posted: 9/13/2003 3:31:21 AM EDT
"That deal has dried up, but you can still Get IMI M193, Fed XM193, or Win Q3131A, for less than you paid for Remington, and those loads are worht at least three times as much as Wolf." Where are you getting that other ammo for a good price? I've looked around for it and found Federal for almost the same price as the Remington. http://www.impactguns.com/store/federal_xm193_ammo.html
Link Posted: 9/13/2003 4:18:46 AM EDT
What do you consider "serious"? AR15's are weapons, they must go bang every time the trigger is pulled, ammo related malfunctions can be avoided through proper ammo selection.
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That's why us Wolf shooters limit it's use to the range and always have at least one mag loaded with the "good stuff". Hoppy
Link Posted: 9/13/2003 5:21:17 AM EDT
At least if you try the Wolf you will know if are wasting your money or not. I use it for plinking and for close in drills at the range. I save better ammo for the long range shooting and the supposed "SHTF" scenarios. As far as the old SA deals go, if your lucky it maybe put on the market again. If you find it now, it is way overpriced. On a side note, the SA suplus stinks almost as bad as the Wolf does.
Link Posted: 9/13/2003 8:26:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AR15fan: What do you consider "serious"? AR15's are weapons, they must go bang every time the trigger is pulled, ammo related malfunctions can be avoided through proper ammo selection.
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Geez. Settle down. Whazza matta ? Your momma spank you with Wolf ammo belts when you were a kid ? Just kidding. Look - I know that ammo is SUPPOSED to go bang every time. But when I'm plinking at evil milk jugs, it doesn't bother me to have a minor malfunction which can be easily rectified. I'm also not disputing the fact that some people have had serious problems with consistent failures. There's even been some people who have had problems with Q3131A or LC. Does that mean we shouldn't use that either ? The answer is obvious. I'm just willing to tolerate a slightly higher rate of malfunctions with plinking ammo.
Link Posted: 9/13/2003 8:40:53 AM EDT
Paging Tatjana -- I think your "Siren's Song" for Wolf ammo would be more than appropriate here. Please repost if you still have it. I could not find it in a search.
Link Posted: 9/13/2003 9:12:43 AM EDT
Just shoot wolf then, pencil pecker! I won't lose sleep over it.
Link Posted: 9/13/2003 9:20:21 AM EDT
Originally Posted By markm: Just shoot wolf then, pencil pecker! I won't lose sleep over it.
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Does shooting Wolf ammo now cause "pencil pecker"? What else will you guys come up with? Wolf is fine for plinking ammo. I thought name calling was against the COC?
Link Posted: 9/13/2003 9:34:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2003 9:35:18 AM EDT by underdog75]
My RRA M4fgry with an ACOG is zero'd with Q3131a.....Having said that My RRA M4fgry has had roughly 3000 rounds of wolf down the Barrel....I've haven't any malfunctions with Wolf or any other ammo for that matter(4700 rounds and counting)...I always keep 1 or 2 or 12[;)] mags loaded with Q3131a just in case.I clean my rifle completely after every range session...The ".223" marked wolf shoots like 1" low at 100 yards too my zero and will not "group" for shit...The Wolf cases marked "5.56" seems to stink a lot worse.Anyways I have no worries about using Wolf for what it is intended..Plinking
Link Posted: 9/13/2003 10:28:15 AM EDT
[url=http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=170028]The dangerous lure of Wolf.[/url]
Link Posted: 9/13/2003 10:44:35 AM EDT
Originally Posted By underdog75: The ".223" marked wolf shoots like 1" low at 100 yards too my zero and will not "group" for shit...
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Your training ammo should have the same flash, recoil, and point of impact as your carry ammo. If your plinking with Wolf then your training yourself to just throw lead in the general direction of the target.
Link Posted: 9/13/2003 11:05:18 AM EDT
First let me say that I agree 100% with your statements...And concur that you are absolutely correct. I'm not trying to "convert" anyone just passing on my experiences...For my CCW pistols I make it a point to shoot large amounts of the exact ammo I will carry...But as for my AR15's have no "carry" ammo as I do not carry it anywhere...If I were to use an AR15 in the line of duty, ie:LEO's I would definitely "train" with a duty load, But as it is I'm only a lowly "wannabe":not only that I'd be a broke wannabe if I'd shoot Q3131a exclusive. I've bought roughly 7 case's of .223/5.56 this year alone...@200$ a case and you do the math.I use wolf for "plinking" ie:HAVING FUN...And that's what this "sport" is about to me..I'm not an "Operator" and never claimed to be. I've got nearly 15,000 rounds of various calibers(not counting .22) and only about 15% of that is ammo that would be considered "defense"...Anyway not trying to flame,just clarifying my point..........[beer]UNDERDOG
Link Posted: 9/13/2003 11:24:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AR15fan: Your training ammo should have the same flash, recoil, and point of impact as your carry ammo. If your plinking with Wolf then your training yourself to just throw lead in the general direction of the target.
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I think that statement would depend more on what you are practicing for. The best way for anyone to improve their skills is to practice. The more a person can practice the fundamentals, the more their skills should improve. Why do you think so many people practice with .22's and pellet guns? I have heard this theory that one should practice with their "duty" ammo only. Any practice done within the supposed contact distances will be minimally affected by ammo selection. I also seriously doubt that anyone will notice increased recoil, muzzle flash, and impact points when the real deal takes place. It's kind of like "Buck Fever", once the blood gets pumping recoil is the last thing you will notice. Does that mean people shouldn't ever practice with their "Duty" ammo? Absolutely not, but the more practice the better.
Link Posted: 9/13/2003 11:31:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By zhukov: Please refer to the [url=http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=169729]Ammo review[/url] thread tacked to the top of the page. Wolf, probably more than any other ammo, has caused controversy on this board. There are a lot of people who swear by it, and some that swear AT it. If you read through the comment section, you'll notice that most people did not have SERIOUS problems. The odd stuck case here and there, bad smell, etc. It's certainly worth trying a 100 rounds or so before jumping to conclusions. I certainly wouldn't be buying Remington ammo for $200/case when you can get Q3131A or LC M193 for less than that.
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Zukhov is correct...there are lot's of choices between Wolf and Rem. Try them.
Link Posted: 9/13/2003 12:51:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2003 12:55:00 PM EDT by AR15fan]
Originally Posted By VA-gunnut: I have heard this theory that one should practice with their "duty" ammo only. Any practice done within the supposed contact distances will be minimally affected by ammo selection. I also seriously doubt that anyone will notice increased recoil, muzzle flash, and impact points when the real deal takes place. It's kind of like "Buck Fever", once the blood gets pumping recoil is the last thing you will notice. .
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It's not really a matter of "noticing" the increased recoil of duty spec ammo. It's the slower split times for double taps and multiple targets. Train with full power ammo and you can get your shot to shot splits, and target to target splits down the a respectable level. Train with plinking ammo and you may be fast as hell with your plinking ammo, but switch to your duty load and the rythm and timing will be totally differant. Not to mention point of impact, hold over, windage correction and lead for moving targets. My primary weapon at work for everything from vicious dogs to bank robberies is an 870 with slugs and buckshot. So you'll never see me shooting birdshot out of my 870's. Sure it cost slightly more to train with slugs and buckshot, but my life is worth it.
Link Posted: 9/13/2003 1:28:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TheOtherOne: Where are you getting that other ammo for a good price? I've looked around for it and found Federal for almost the same price as the Remington. http://www.impactguns.com/store/federal_xm193_ammo.html
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I bought a case of Q3131 from Wholesale Hunter for $175/1000? a few months back.It goes on sale from time to time and that's when you have to grab it.Natchez sells Federal XM193 cheap depending on where you live.CMMG also sells XM193 for $99.95/500 delivered.Gun shows will also have some good deals.I'd much rather spend the $100 on proven military surplus than commercial grade stuff.
Link Posted: 9/13/2003 3:40:39 PM EDT
AR15FAN is 100% right same ammo for fun and for real ,let them use wolf in mini14"s AR's preform best with the good stuff [XM193,Q3131a,ss109]prices are good now stock up now .
Link Posted: 9/13/2003 6:15:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AR15fan: It's not really a matter of "noticing" the increased recoil of duty spec ammo. It's the slower split times for double taps and multiple targets. Train with full power ammo and you can get your shot to shot splits, and target to target splits down the a respectable level. Train with plinking ammo and you may be fast as hell with your plinking ammo, but switch to your duty load and the rythm and timing will be totally differant. Not to mention point of impact, hold over, windage correction and lead for moving targets. My primary weapon at work for everything from vicious dogs to bank robberies is an 870 with slugs and buckshot. So you'll never see me shooting birdshot out of my 870's. Sure it cost slightly more to train with slugs and buckshot, but my life is worth it.
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As I stated earlier, it does depend on what you are practicing/training for. The difference between Wolf .223 and M193 ammo is small at short distances. Yes splits may be different but probably only detectable with a timer. I have only noticed a difference in rhythm while shooting on static ranges, not while moving and shooting. I have never noticed POI shifts when shooting in close. As far as a shotgun goes, the difference between birdshot and buckshot/slugs is very noticeable. Once I give the Wolf buckshot a try, we can discuss the merits of training with that vs. other brands. [;)]
Link Posted: 9/13/2003 7:57:12 PM EDT
The least expensive Federal ammo from Natchez is FMJBT 55gr (FAAE223) for $3.29/20rds. Is this XM193 ammo? If not, is it still good? They also have 55gr S&B for $3.19/20rds. Which one is better?
Link Posted: 9/14/2003 4:05:12 AM EDT
Well, since the only combat I'll see with this gun is return fire from aluminum cans at the gun range, I think I'll buy Wolf from now on. Like I said, if it really ruins your gun then I could just buy a brand new one from the ammo savings after 10,000 rounds or so.
Link Posted: 9/14/2003 8:45:48 AM EDT
Ask yourself this. "Am I buying this ammo to shoot, or to store?" I have yet to find out how well cheaper, or less expensive surplus ammo performs ten+ years after purchase. Honestly, my main stock is three cans of clipped, bandoliered M-855, and one mixed 5/1 855/856.. The cheaper ammo, is for PLAY. Not training, not sighting in, no serious use. For this use, Wolf, Barnaul, etc. is satisfactory. Also, I collect ammo (or did, til I lost interest) so I have small quantities of odd 5.56 I shoot up. (Guatemalan, Canadian, some really BAD stuff made in Singapore, ) It depends on how well you can divide "working" ammo from "play" ammo, I guess. I don't fool myself into thinking cheap ammo is anything but that. Cheap. Meplat-
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