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Posted: 7/1/2003 3:48:05 PM EDT
I've got an AR style carbon-15, type 97 'C' prefix that is very sensitive to even new brass case ammo. With trying different brands I've got it to the point where I'd almost trust it enough to take it to a pillow fight. It's fairly new but until I can put at least 500 rounds thru it without jamming one I won't be happy. Ideas? Yeah, I'm going to sell it but not till it's humming. Mikke
Link Posted: 7/1/2003 5:05:04 PM EDT
Don't waste your time... sell it immediately, take a loss if you have to, and never look back. It will never work if you got one of the PO models. Maybe now that bushmaster bought all the tooling they will produce carbon fiber products with mil-spec parts that will actually work.
Link Posted: 7/1/2003 10:42:39 PM EDT
My brothers PO works great, has jammed exactly zero times. Did you oil it? If so wipe all of that oil off and it should work fine. That has been the problem with most of the guys who think they don't work. "Yeah the instructions say 'do not oil!', but I didn't want to risk it so I oiled it anyway." DUH.....
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 7:31:23 AM EDT
Rickyi, you say not to use oil at all on my carbon-15? Anywhere? I have been oiling lightly. Two drops to the inner carrier and a drop or two to the hammer group pins. I swab the barrel with a oil damp patch also. I can see where oil between two differnt materials like carbon fibre and steel could produce a problem but where metal only touches metal and with just enough lube to avoid it traveling to other places I can't figure it. However I will try it dry. I may try a dry lube like graphite in the hammer group later. In the same vein I notice that some ammos leave what looks like a fowling of oil after several shots. If the Carbon needs to be shot dry than that ammo would seem to be contra-indicated...I will keep messing with it because the hell of it is I really like the gun's handling characteristics. It's small, ultra light and as accurate as my Colt HB. I don't give up easily. It's not the money dammit it's the principle. Thanx for the advice. Mikke
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 7:13:56 PM EDT
My Carbon 15 went 1500 rds without a single cleaning before one FTE, ran a quick brush through exactly twice then a dry patch exactly twice a little oil on the bolt and went another 500 rds without a hitch. One time I took my 120 Chinese drum that kicka$$ and ran all 120 rds through the carbon 15 without a single problem. I will have to admit that there is some work that needs to be done to get the carbon 15 to work. I made a few changes and never looked back. People always want to try it at the range. Also, the Chinese drum suffers the same fate. I bought mine years ago and discovered that they were assembled with tons of cozmoline. I stuck mine in the dishwasher on heavy cycle then degreased it then dismantled it, uncoiled the spring and lubed with break free and have never had a problem. It's awesome. Most people get them and never removed the cozmoline around the coil spring. The cozmoline acts like glue and makes it sticky. Once it's removed it's great.
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 7:29:05 PM EDT
Sorry I forgot to explain some of the fixes. 1.I bonded some strips carbon in the magazine well. This makes GI Mags work perfect and plastic. It sets the magazines up at the perfect angle. I noticed that every Carbon 15 I picked up GI Mags would flop around a little and this caused jams. I fixed a few just by doing this. 2.I had problems with extraction. I had to changed the bolt and bolt carrier until one worked perfect. This seems to be a big problem for some reason. 3.I go a strong a$$ recoil spring 4.Lube, Lube, Lube I discovered that the thing needs oil. I found that Remington Teflon spray seems to work the best. 5.Make sure the buffer tube is tight on the pistol. Not to tight to were you strip it. 6. polish the feed ramp and chamber lightly!!!!!!!!!!! Defently get a chamber brush 7.I also seen a few loose gas tubes. This will cause FTE. I had to replace mine, it came loose after 100rds when I first got it. After all this I finaly got a few to work perfect. I knew the basic design was good. It just needs some tweaks and if I figured this much out wait till Bushmaster gets there hands on it! They will make it even better.
Link Posted: 7/9/2003 8:38:49 PM EDT
I have a type 97 pistol as well. In fact, my dad and his buddy do also. My dad is a freak about keeping his guns mint, so I dunno how his is. His buddie's does and always has run w/o a hitch. Mine could not digest military brass when new. Commercial brass and steel case stuff went without a hitch, but the chamber was too ticht for military ammo. When chambering one, it wouldn't go fully into battery, and it took and extreme kungfu grip to wrench the bolt back and eject the case. I went ahead and got the dremmel with a flexible shaft and felt tip and some jeweler's rouge and I polished the sh*t (can we write cuss words on here?) and it has run since then like a cat on fire, no malfunctions of any sort. I really like having the carbon, for its weight, size, and concussion blast (I used to not like it but it grew on me) and it's great. I maybe wish that the twist rate was faster though. I think it is 1X9, entirely too slow for 7.25" I think if you polish the chamber real well, you shouldn't need to add a super strong recoil spring. I do wish that it used more standard parts though. Maybe I can get something else oh say in late September of '04. Tell me what kind of ammo and stuff works good for you'all. Thanks.
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 7:06:04 PM EDT
My Carbon 15 is one of the earliest ones made. It went back to POI at least 6 times. It stovepiped incessantly, and occasionally failed to feed, as well as having a broken charging handle, a cracked gas block, a loose gas tube, and a stripped thread on the screw that holds the sight rail on the upper. Yes, it was maddening. But the last time in was the charm. So far since then, no failures of any kind. It has the very latest bolt now with the beveled, chamfered, and and polished large extractor with HD spring, beveled ejector plunger hole with HD ejector spring, and the latest bolt carrier. The barrel has been replaced with the latest 5.56 NATO chamber which has been polished, the feedramps have been polished and the mag latch, which originally held the mags too tight to allow seating the mag with the bolt closed, has been adjusted for proper fit . I was told to get rid of it too, but was also determined to get the bugs worked out. It's FAR too handy and convenient to just give up on. Mine now sports the special (uncataloged) short 8" buttstock, a Trijicon Reflex sight with the small light "Weaver" mount, and a simple nylon carry strap with QD "Hush Stalker" plastic swivels. For weight and length saving I leave the QD muzzle brake off, and for additional weight saving and maneuverability, I keep a 9 round mag in it plus one in the chamber (but always have at least 2 - 20 round backup mags). OAL is now 31-3/4" and ready carry weight is 4#. From an African carry, I can, having been taught how and practiced, mount it, acquire a target, and fire accurately faster than I can draw and accurately fire my SIG P220! Thanks to the Trijicon and the extreme maneuverability of the rifle, I can re-acquire and dispatch successive new targets at a rate which amazes even me. Note that for some strange reason, muzzle flash is almost non-existent with the brake removed, while with it on, there's a huge fireball.At a training course, it was fired against AR 15's, one with a Vortex, one with an A2 "Birdcage", and several with muzzle brakes. The Vortex had NO flash whatsoever. The Birdcage was next with a small brief red glow about 1/2" diameter, followed closely by my Carbon 15 sans brake. A small blue flame about 1" long and 1/2" diameter was barely visible. Ammo was IMI M855/SS109.The ammo has something to do with the low flash, but since there was a huge fireball with the brake installed, there's more to it than that. One thing I learned about it; it requires the hottest ammo available. It works fine with IMI M855/SS109 and Winchester Q3131A. The stovepiping happened when I was using Lake City 1998, which chronoed over 100 fps lower than the IMI, contrary to reports here.That may have been a factor, as claimed by POI. The Carbon is so compact and innocuous, that it's almost invisible in low light conditions if carried African Style. I've had it with me on several occasions and neighbors didn't even realize I had it slung muzzle down over my left shoulder but ready to use instantly. It is my constant companion in my car, and is my "go-to" gun. Interestingly enough, thanks to the heavy ribbing on the (flat) rear of the buttstock and the extreme light weight of the Carbon 15, shooting IMI M855/SS109 is not as much fun recreationally as one might think. The recoil is SHARP, and the small shoulder contact patch WILL abrade and bruise a T-shirt only covered shoulder when mounted properly. I consider this gun to be properly used in a practical application rather than as a plinker and recreational shooter. FWIW, I have 3 friends who have Carbon 15s which have NEVER malfunctioned. Needless to say, this reveals my luck all too well. :-) Even so, if one DOES act up, they CAN be made to be reliable, if one is willing to spend the time and effort, and they ARE worth it. But then there are many who insist on a perfect weapon out of the box. For them, something bigger and heavier can be an alternative. "Ya pays yer money, and ya takes yer cherce!" I hope this sheds some light on the much maligned Carbon 15.
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 8:00:12 PM EDT
Dude, I just want to let you know, that having a butt stock on a pistol is a serious violation of ATF regulations. It doen't matter what kind of pistol it is, a real hand gun, or an AR15 pistol, but my point is, that when you add a shoulder stock to it, you are making it an unregistered SBR (that is Short barrel rifle for the unfamiluar w/ the world of class III). A SBR is defined as any rifle w/ a pistol w/ a barrel legnth of under 16" or an OAL of under ?" A rifle is ofcourse a mettalic cartrige rifled bore weapon that is fire from the shoulder. If you get caught w/ this weapon w/ a butt stock on, or if you get caught with it and in possession of the stock (since it can easily be proved that it only goes with that weapon) even if the parts are not in the same bag (for example one is in you car, and one is in your house) you can easily be prosequted and face up to a 10 year prison term, and or up to a 10,000 fine. This is not only an illegal weapon, but also a tax fraud, since you havn't paid the $200 dollar tax stamp. Dude, seriously, you don't have any idea what you are fricking with. If you get pulled over for speeding or whatever, and one thing leads to another and the cop sees it, and he know anything, your ass is grass. The best thing to do is what I did, Put a Telespoping carbine stock sling adapter on underneath the buffer tube and get a single point attachment sling, that way, you'll have something to press out against to hold the weapon steady (enough) to shoot w/ a red dot or reflex sight. OR Get a pre or post ban lower, pay the $200 dollar tax for the stamp, and get it registered w/ the NFA as a Legal SBR, and put whatever upper you want on it. (OF COURSE IF YOU DO THIS AND YOU HAVE MORE THAN ONE SBR UPPER PER REGISTERED SBR LOWER AND YOU OWN OTHER AR-15 RIFLES, YOU WILL BE IN VIOLATION BATF REGULATIONS AGAIN). I don't know if the ATF has enough resources to look over these resourses looking for dummasses talking about making unregistered machine guns, silencers, and SBR's, but if they do, you could be expecting a middle of the night flashbang grenade TJSMWINZF (they just shot my wife in the face) visit from you local friendly ATF JTB. Take care
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 4:50:41 AM EDT
Strongmad, I thought the same thing, until I read more carefully, StarPD mentions is Overall Length is 31 3/4". He has a Carbon15 Rifle.
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