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Posted: 9/28/2002 7:51:35 AM EDT
I have been reading the oracle and some of the posts about the use of Hornady TAP75gr and Black Hills with 77 and 69SMK.
You all seem to feel that M193 is tops for serious social encounters, but the loads I refer to above are seeing use for this purpose too with the BH77SMK being used in Afghanistan.
If crimped primers,bullets and sealed cases are some of the attributes making M193 and other milspec ammo desirable besides their fragmentation qualities, how do you feel about the use of the 75TAP and 77/69SMK loads that are not sealed or have crimped primers(I am making an assumtion here since I have not personally handled this ammo).
The main concern I have is with the uncrimped primer's. If the ammo is loaded hot you run the risk of a blown out primer and a locked up gun.
So is the ammo being used in Afganistan the smae stuff as I would buy off the shelf or is it enhanced to milspec?
I am a reloader and could easily duplicate these loads.


Lee
Link Posted: 9/28/2002 8:17:55 AM EDT
I hope you don't mind me adding my 2 cents. The Hornady, Black Hills and Federal loads that you mentioned above are not exactly like what the military is getting. The velocities are down and I am pretty certain that the mil-spec stuff probably uses sealant on both the primer and case mouth. They probably also use crimped primers.

The stuff we can get (like Black Hills 75 gr) does come with sealed primers but not case mouths. I feel that as long as you properly store the ammo, that this is no major problem. Put this stuff in an ammo can, drop in a pack of dessicant, and seal it up. The ammo should store well for years this way as long as it isn't exposed to extreme heat or something like that.

The other thing is, the rounds we get don't have cannelures on the bullets, whereas the military stuff does. Evidently this is done to prevent any bullet set-backs....although I haven't heard of one single problem using the non-cannelured bullets in these loads. But because the civilian versions are not loaded so hot, this may not be as much of an issue for us anyway.

And finally, these rounds are not as velocity dependant as M193/M855 to do their thing. Some of these loads tend to fragment down to much lower velocities than anything else on the market while still offering adequate penetration. I like the Black Hills 75 gr BTHP because it seems to offer the earliest yaw and fragments sooner than the rest. The FBI uses the Federal 69 gr SMK's in their SWAT 16" carbines, so they must think it works pretty well. So even though the commercial loads aren't loaded as hot as what the military guys get, it still performs very well. Police love this stuff and the gel tests in the FAQ seem to show it works very well.

Oh, and check this out for good ammo at good prices: www.georgiaprecision.com. After seeing this, I just deceided to buy the 75 gr in blue boxes as it isn't all that expensive. And of course if you are concerned with using re-man loads, then pick up a few boxes of the red also.
Link Posted: 9/28/2002 2:57:06 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/29/2002 11:14:57 AM EDT
Thanks Troy and CH, makes sense to me now that I understand that the loads are primarily for use in the 14.5 M4 platform.
I have to wonder though if the 69 or 77 SMK would privide an alterative to M193 at longer range in a 20" barrel, say 250m or further,since the SMK's would have abetter trajectory and wind bucking abilities.
I wont be ordering or loading up any of the SMK's until further field testing is in. For now I will stick to the M193 stock I have on hand.

Lee
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 12:00:27 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/30/2002 4:23:01 AM EDT
The cannelure is good for crimping from what I have heard there were a few problems with bullet setback in the first issue stuff and the cost per bullet when and if it is switched over will not cost much more than the M193/M855 at full production.
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