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Posted: 12/5/2013 3:27:36 PM EDT
| I have a friend who built an ar in .22 lr, cmmg barrel and bcg, using a nikon rimfire 3-9x40 but he says he cant get tight groups. Is this normal on an ar-22 or not really!? |
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Flip through the pages here...
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_15/441890_22_Conversions___Dedicated_22_s__22_Builds___Range_Reports__Ammo__Tips__Tricks__Insight_and_More_.html Ammo quality has a huge impact on accuracy and as crazy as things have been this year, I'm afraid it'll be affecting current supplies. Dave in Florida |
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Some recent unscientific testing results:
Conditions: 0 Value Winds, 67 to 95 F, 55 to 99% H SK High Velocity Lot# 133 46/1 214 4: Beyer 18" SPR w/CMMG BCG: .25" @ 50 yds. SK High Velocity Lot# 127 46/1 204 4: Beyer 18" SPR w/CMMG BCG: .25" to 2.5" AVERAGE 2 SQUIB ROUNDS PER 50 ROUNDS, WIDE FPS DISCREPANCIES Federal HV Match Lot# 196965H 7023: Beyer 18" SPR w/CMMG BCG: .75" to 1.5" @ 50 yds. Eley Match EPS Lot# 1013-02204 1046: Beyer 18" SPR w/CMMG BCG: .35" to .75" @ 50 yds. Eley Remington EPS Lot# 07-05044 1002: Beyer 18" SPR w/CMMG BCG: .2" to .5" @ 50 yds. Wolf Match Target Lot# 008 45/1 0014: Beyer 18" SPR w/CMMG BCG: .5" to 1" @ 50 yds. Wolf Match Extra Lot# 00745/2 494 3: 20" Lothar Walther Ballistic Advantage Hvy. Profile w/CMMG BCG: .125" to .35" @ 50 yds. Wolf Match Extra Lot# 00745/2 494 3: 18" Beyer SPR w/CMMG BCG: .5" to .75" @ 50 yds Lapua Midas+ Lot# 277 44 5 961 1: 20" Lothar Walther Ballistic Advantage Hvy. Profile w/CMMG BCG: .125" to .35" @ 50 yds. Lapua Midas+ Lot# 277 44 5 961 1: 18" Beyer SPR w/CMMG BCG: .5" to .75" @ 50 yds CCI AR Tactical Lot# D27S06: Beyer 18" SPR w/CMMG BCG: .8" to 3.0" @ 50 yds. CCI Mini-Mag Lot# J12U23: Beyer 18" SPR w/CMMG BCG: .5" to 2.0" @ 50 yds. Observations & Notes: Wolf, SK and Lapua are all loaded by Lapua (now SK) GmbH Schonebeck/Elbe, Germany using Vihtavuori Powder. Most consistent velocities were from Eley which contributes the most to accuracy. All other brands have wide velocity variations of 100+ FPS. All ammo tested is stored in low humidity, low temperature conditions. Most brands shot much tighter groups when fired from a Savage MK II TRR bolt gun. All groups fired were 5 shots except for record groups which were 3 shots. All groups were fired from a standard bench rest table using a Sinclair Competition Bench Rest with either Protektor or Edgewood bags. The gun uses S&W M&P 15-22 Magazines for their reliable feeding and the Bonnie-Packer Better-Mag Adapter that has performed flawlessly for over 2K rounds. FCG is Geissele High Speed National Match and upper receivers were either DPMS Competition Upper or Vltor. Hope y'all get something useful from this, Ted |
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Quoted:
Some recent unscientific testing results: Conditions: 0 Value Winds, 67 to 95 F, 55 to 99% H SK High Velocity Lot# 133 46/1 214 4: Beyer 18" SPR w/CMMG BCG: .25" @ 50 yds. SK High Velocity Lot# 127 46/1 204 4: Beyer 18" SPR w/CMMG BCG: .25" to 2.5" AVERAGE 2 SQUIB ROUNDS PER 50 ROUNDS, WIDE FPS DISCREPANCIES Federal HV Match Lot# 196965H 7023: Beyer 18" SPR w/CMMG BCG: .75" to 1.5" @ 50 yds. Eley Match EPS Lot# 1013-02204 1046: Beyer 18" SPR w/CMMG BCG: .35" to .75" @ 50 yds. Eley Remington EPS Lot# 07-05044 1002: Beyer 18" SPR w/CMMG BCG: .2" to .5" @ 50 yds. Wolf Match Target Lot# 008 45/1 0014: Beyer 18" SPR w/CMMG BCG: .5" to 1" @ 50 yds. Wolf Match Extra Lot# 00745/2 494 3: 20" Lothar Walther Ballistic Advantage Hvy. Profile w/CMMG BCG: .125" to .35" @ 50 yds. Wolf Match Extra Lot# 00745/2 494 3: 18" Beyer SPR w/CMMG BCG: .5" to .75" @ 50 yds Lapua Midas+ Lot# 277 44 5 961 1: 20" Lothar Walther Ballistic Advantage Hvy. Profile w/CMMG BCG: .125" to .35" @ 50 yds. Lapua Midas+ Lot# 277 44 5 961 1: 18" Beyer SPR w/CMMG BCG: .5" to .75" @ 50 yds CCI AR Tactical Lot# D27S06: Beyer 18" SPR w/CMMG BCG: .8" to 3.0" @ 50 yds. CCI Mini-Mag Lot# J12U23: Beyer 18" SPR w/CMMG BCG: .5" to 2.0" @ 50 yds. Observations & Notes: Wolf, SK and Lapua are all loaded by Lapua (now SK) GmbH Schonebeck/Elbe, Germany using Vihtavuori Powder. Most consistent velocities were from Eley which contributes the most to accuracy. All other brands have wide velocity variations of 100+ FPS. All ammo tested is stored in low humidity, low temperature conditions. Most brands shot much tighter groups when fired from a Savage MK II TRR bolt gun. All groups fired were 5 shots except for record groups which were 3 shots. All groups were fired from a standard bench rest table using a Sinclair Competition Bench Rest with either Protektor or Edgewood bags. The gun uses S&W M&P 15-22 Magazines for their reliable feeding and the Bonnie-Packer Better-Mag Adapter that has performed flawlessly for over 2K rounds. FCG is Geissele High Speed National Match and upper receivers were either DPMS Competition Upper or Vltor. Hope y'all get something useful from this, Ted Ted, I often wander about peoples chosen screen names and sometimes ask what the significance of the more unusual ones are. If you do not mind me asking., What does yours stand for? If you do want to tell me, just tell me to go away  You would not be the first...
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The CMMG barrels will vary, but that is also true for most any "production" .22 barrel. There are so many variables its hard to predict. The LW barrels are notably better but then its because the people who are machining them pay a lot of attention to detail and keep them very consistent. Of course we spell that "$$$$$". You get what you pay for. A recent CMMG low end standard .22 upper I picked up on-sale really surprised me as it grouped very well with certain common ammo. (CCI Standard Vel and CCI Blazer). But again, due to variations in machining and ammo you will find this to be very typical.
Production .22's are hit or miss. They are subject to tolerance stack which means its just hard to reliably predict which ones will like which ammo or how an individual sample will group. As you move into more premium uppers where higher quality parts and more craftsmanship are involved you will gain more consistency abut the price will reflect that. So, decide your budget and buy accordingly. I know this last CMMG I got is a keeper as I got lucky and got pieces that are all playing together nicely with the ammo I have to run in it. My lucky day! I would be a fool to let go of that rifle. If you find one that works well...hold on to it. BTW...I have five Ruger 10/22's. I never cease to be amazed at how differently they each shoot compared to one another. One would think that all coming from the same factory they would be somewhat consistent. NO WAY! There is a reason there are so many after market parts for these. While all of them are "acceptable" for 50 yard plinkers or small game rifles if you want to really make them work you start doing some mods. Just like the .22 AR there is a lot of improving that can be done but again, the magic word is "$$$$" |
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Carbine, I don't mind. During my years of USAF service I was a Weapons Maintenance & Munitions Specialist,
a Security Police Sgt., an Assistant Marksmanship Instructor, a Technical Illustration Specialist and one hell of a janitor. Air Force jobs are designated by AFSC (Air Force Specialty Code) and the screen name reflects the code for Aircraft Weapons System Supervisor (7 Level or highest state of training). I never held this rating while in uniform, however, I was a GS at a Western USAF Base where I supervised Depot Level Maintenance for General Electric GAU's (Gun, Automatic, Unit). I might add, I was not very popular because I was a really tough boss (as if you couldn't tell). Hence the AFSC2W171Z. After moving back to CT I had the good fortune of being hired by UTC Sikorsky Aircraft and worked as a Manufacturing Engineer (and later a Tool Engineer) mostly responsible for preliminary aircraft assembly tool concepts (illustrations). I worked in the Stratford Plant for 27 years out of 29 years. I have been a competitive shooter for over 50 years having been on three USAF base rifle/pistol teams, captained the Sikorsky Rifle Team and Sikorsky Pistol Team and only recently stopped competing. I am a NRA Certified Rifle, Shotgun, Pistol and Home Safety Instructor and a Certified AR Armorer. So now you've got an idea of what I'm about. Ted |
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Quoted:
My Spike's won't consistently cycle match ammo but I get some pretty good groups at 25 yards with CCI Tactical and other jacketed ammo. I also get some unreal 4 round groups with a fifth hole in the next county. Such is bulk box .22LR. That is also my experience.. all at once you get one shot that you just have to ask WTF???? |
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Screen names are kind of funny here.
I never wanted the one I ended up with. My dogs name was shadow. I tried every combination of shadow I thought would work. A buddy of mine suggested putting cop at the end and damned if it didn't take it. 
Didn't really want to advertise the "cop" thing at the time but now that I'm retired, it doesn't matter much. Dave N |
| Cool. Thanks fellas! I thought I'd ask since he doesn't pop his head in here although I've told him about arfcom several times for an encyclopedia of info regarding ar15's but it is what it is. I'll let him know since he was kind of worried. Next time on the range I'll do some shooting and see if it is the shooter lol |
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