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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - 9mm DI UPDATE (Page 1 of 5)
Posted: 9/25/2011 4:36:18 PM EDT
Ron Williams has been working on the 9mm DI AR-15, it seems to be running now with 115gr factory ammo
9mm DI AR-15 |
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I didn't know Jeff Bridges built guns? 
On a serious note, I've got a 10mm from Ron, very nice product. I'm thinking about getting a 9mm from him as well to go on my Lone Wolf lower. Wonder if the DI bolt will clear the Glock feed lips? Who? With my SOT in place you will be seenig more video except it will be full auto Wait till you see the 10mm
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I didn't know Jeff Bridges built guns?
On a serious note, I've got a 10mm from Ron, very nice product. I'm thinking about getting a 9mm from him as well to go on my Lone Wolf lower. Wonder if the DI bolt will clear the Glock feed lips? Who? With my SOT in place you will be seenig more video except it will be full auto Wait till you see the 10mmSo when will the 9mm DI be ready? |
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I didn't know Jeff Bridges built guns?
On a serious note, I've got a 10mm from Ron, very nice product. I'm thinking about getting a 9mm from him as well to go on my Lone Wolf lower. Wonder if the DI bolt will clear the Glock feed lips? Who? With my SOT in place you will be seenig more video except it will be full auto Wait till you see the 10mmThe guy that played Rooster in the new True Grit.
Any idea if the 9mm will work with the Glock mags? Also, I know you said it couldn't be done with the 10mm, but anyway to make the 9mm a bufferless system so that it can be used with a folding stock? |
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I didn't know Jeff Bridges built guns?
On a serious note, I've got a 10mm from Ron, very nice product. I'm thinking about getting a 9mm from him as well to go on my Lone Wolf lower. Wonder if the DI bolt will clear the Glock feed lips? Who? With my SOT in place you will be seenig more video except it will be full auto Wait till you see the 10mmThe guy that played Rooster in the new True Grit.
Any idea if the 9mm will work with the Glock mags? Also, I know you said it couldn't be done with the 10mm, but anyway to make the 9mm a bufferless system so that it can be used with a folding stock? Do I look that old 
I have some ideas. If I remember corectly you had one to? Ill IM. |
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I didn't know Jeff Bridges built guns?
On a serious note, I've got a 10mm from Ron, very nice product. I'm thinking about getting a 9mm from him as well to go on my Lone Wolf lower. Wonder if the DI bolt will clear the Glock feed lips? Who? With my SOT in place you will be seenig more video except it will be full auto Wait till you see the 10mmWhen can I send you my hard earned money for a DI 9mm upper? This year maybe? Don't forget that the world is supposed to end in late 2012, one of these uppers would be useful for the end of the world. 
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I didn't know Jeff Bridges built guns?
On a serious note, I've got a 10mm from Ron, very nice product. I'm thinking about getting a 9mm from him as well to go on my Lone Wolf lower. Wonder if the DI bolt will clear the Glock feed lips? Who? With my SOT in place you will be seenig more video except it will be full auto Wait till you see the 10mmThe guy that played Rooster in the new True Grit.
Any idea if the 9mm will work with the Glock mags? Also, I know you said it couldn't be done with the 10mm, but anyway to make the 9mm a bufferless system so that it can be used with a folding stock? Do I look that old
I have some ideas. If I remember corectly you had one to? Ill IM. They made him look older for the movie
I did have an idea for a bufferless system, don't know how feasible it is though. |
| Its feasible but I am concerned about the short stroke of the carrier. On the other hand the carrier would be lighter making it easyer for the weapon to cycle. Just would need time to work with the idea & look at it more thuroughly. Right now I am so consumed with the 9mm I just dont have time. Finishing my new gas block & I can start on prototype #2. I plan to run #1 full auto today. If she runs I think my new gas system will be just what I need to finalize it. I have 5 various calibers to get started & finished next week. Just to many irons in the fire. |
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Its feasible but I am concerned about the short stroke of the carrier. On the other hand the carrier would be lighter making it easyer for the weapon to cycle. Just would need time to work with the idea & look at it more thuroughly. Right now I am so consumed with the 9mm I just dont have time. Finishing my new gas block & I can start on prototype #2. I plan to run #1 full auto today. If she runs I think my new gas system will be just what I need to finalize it. I have 5 various calibers to get started & finished next week. Just to many irons in the fire. What kind of barrel lengths are you looking at for the 9mm? Have you ran them suppressed yet? |
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Hey Ron! Congrats on getting it to work (as well as your 07/02)!
For all the clamoring we've heard from folks wanting a DI 9mm, this thread should be getting FAR more exposure. Heck, your video showing the difference between the suppressed blow back and suppressed DI 45 AR tells the tale. If you can get a video showing the same difference between DI and BB for the 9mm, it should dissuade any detractors. Which mags are you using for the 9mm DI? Nice job! |
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Hey Ron! Congrats on getting it to work (as well as your 07/02)! For all the clamoring we've heard from folks wanting a DI 9mm, this thread should be getting FAR more exposure. Heck, your video showing the difference between the suppressed blow back and suppressed DI 45 AR tells the tale. If you can get a video showing the same difference between DI and BB for the 9mm, it should dissuade any detractors. Which mags are you using for the 9mm DI? Nice job! Thanks! I think the 45 had way more intrest than the 9mm. I have found another improvement already so it will be a little longer before it is finalized. Ran it some yesturday full auto so I will get a video of that next. I am running uzi & CP mags. The CP mags are nice because it locks back on the last round but it has never been a deal breaker for me. Dont know anyone with a blowback 9mm but I will see what I can do. |
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Quoted: ... Dont know anyone with a blowback 9mm but I will see what I can do. If you were a few miles closer I'd just hand you mine. (You are talking about a standard Colt/RRA pattern 9mm, right?) Heck - it already spent a year or so at C Products, so its not like I'm used to it being around full fime. ;-) |
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Can someone list the advantages of a DI 9mm compared to blow back please....I am a bit ignorant. Thanks in advance. DI is very clean. Even with the 5.56, the operation is clean. BB - Blow Back is the worst (filthiest) of all methods of operation. I would rather shoot a 5.56 instead of 9mm BB for this very reason. I HATE cleaning my 9mm ARs. |
| I've got a RDIAS. In full auto you can really feel the difference. BB 9mm sucks. Like shouldering a jack hammer. I've got one of Ron's 45 gas uppers and in FA, it is as smooth as an MP5 in FA. I can only imagine how the 9mm is. Probably like shooting FA 22lr. Can't wait!! |
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I hate how dirty my 9mms have gotten in the past (currently between 9mm guns) so that alone may be worth it to me. I don't have full auto or a can, so the one biggy for me would be staying cleaner longer. The lower reciprocating mass also means the rifle will be easier to control in rapid fire and quicker to get the sights back on target after each shot. |
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So does this DI 9mm only work with 115gr ammo? i can only assume, seeing as i am not the manufacturer, but i would assume seeing as 115 grains is the lightest commercially available 9mm ammo, that the upper would cycle with ANY 9MM AMMO.normally if it will cycle the weak stuff, it will cycle anything. p.s. one of the 5 various calibers he is working on right now is a .357 mag upper, that i ordered. |
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So does this DI 9mm only work with 115gr ammo? i can only assume, seeing as i am not the manufacturer, but i would assume seeing as 115 grains is the lightest commercially available 9mm ammo, that the upper would cycle with ANY 9MM AMMO.normally if it will cycle the weak stuff, it will cycle anything. p.s. one of the 5 various calibers he is working on right now is a .357 mag upper, that i ordered. What kind of mags will the .357 use? |
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So does this DI 9mm only work with 115gr ammo? i can only assume, seeing as i am not the manufacturer, but i would assume seeing as 115 grains is the lightest commercially available 9mm ammo, that the upper would cycle with ANY 9MM AMMO.normally if it will cycle the weak stuff, it will cycle anything. p.s. one of the 5 various calibers he is working on right now is a .357 mag upper, that i ordered. What kind of mags will the .357 use? i believe Ron is planning on using a modified desert eagle magazine. |
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So does this DI 9mm only work with 115gr ammo? i can only assume, seeing as i am not the manufacturer, but i would assume seeing as 115 grains is the lightest commercially available 9mm ammo, that the upper would cycle with ANY 9MM AMMO.normally if it will cycle the weak stuff, it will cycle anything. p.s. one of the 5 various calibers he is working on right now is a .357 mag upper, that i ordered. A 147 grain 9mm load has less volume available for powder, than a 115 grain load. Less powder volume generally means less gas available to cycle a gas operated action, but that would also depend on what powder is used. |
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So does this DI 9mm only work with 115gr ammo? i can only assume, seeing as i am not the manufacturer, but i would assume seeing as 115 grains is the lightest commercially available 9mm ammo, that the upper would cycle with ANY 9MM AMMO.normally if it will cycle the weak stuff, it will cycle anything. p.s. one of the 5 various calibers he is working on right now is a .357 mag upper, that i ordered. A 147 grain 9mm load has less volume available for powder, than a 115 grain load. Less powder volume generally means less gas available to cycle a gas operated action, but that would also depend on what powder is used. As long as it cycles 147gr i'll be down for one. |
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Its feasible but I am concerned about the short stroke of the carrier. On the other hand the carrier would be lighter making it easyer for the weapon to cycle. Just would need time to work with the idea & look at it more thuroughly. Right now I am so consumed with the 9mm I just dont have time. Finishing my new gas block & I can start on prototype #2. I plan to run #1 full auto today. If she runs I think my new gas system will be just what I need to finalize it. I have 5 various calibers to get started & finished next week. Just to many irons in the fire. What kind of barrel lengths are you looking at for the 9mm? Have you ran them suppressed yet? Started with a 10.5" brl because the 16" will be a non issue. As soon as I am 100% happy with the 10.5" I will cut it to 7.5" & start all over again. No supressors yet but starting on some next week. |
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So does this DI 9mm only work with 115gr ammo? i can only assume, seeing as i am not the manufacturer, but i would assume seeing as 115 grains is the lightest commercially available 9mm ammo, that the upper would cycle with ANY 9MM AMMO.normally if it will cycle the weak stuff, it will cycle anything. p.s. one of the 5 various calibers he is working on right now is a .357 mag upper, that i ordered. The 115g loads seemed to be the worst but the 147 will generate more dwell time because they are slower to leave the bore. This is one reason the DI45 works. Most felt that the low pressures of the 45 would not work in the AR. They forgot that the slower velocity & heavy bullet created dwell time. More time for the pressure to act on the bolt. amphibian, I have never fired a MP5 but the DI45 is amazing on full auto. Watch the muzzle in this video. DI45 Your 357mag upper is on deck. Wraping up your brl today. Hope to do some testing in another week. |
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So does this DI 9mm only work with 115gr ammo? i can only assume, seeing as i am not the manufacturer, but i would assume seeing as 115 grains is the lightest commercially available 9mm ammo, that the upper would cycle with ANY 9MM AMMO.normally if it will cycle the weak stuff, it will cycle anything. p.s. one of the 5 various calibers he is working on right now is a .357 mag upper, that i ordered. The 115g loads seemed to be the worst but the 147 will generate more dwell time because they are slower to leave the bore. This is one reason the DI45 works. Most felt that the low pressures of the 45 would not work in the AR. They forgot that the slower velocity & heavy bullet created dwell time. More time for the pressure to act on the bolt. amphibian, I have never fired a MP5 but the DI45 is amazing on full auto. Watch the muzzle in this video. DI45 Your 357mag upper is on deck. Wraping up your brl today. Hope to do some testing in another week. Wow, that FA DI45 is insane; almost no recoil. I bet this 9mm DI will have less recoil than an mp5. |
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Its feasible but I am concerned about the short stroke of the carrier. On the other hand the carrier would be lighter making it easyer for the weapon to cycle. Just would need time to work with the idea & look at it more thuroughly. Right now I am so consumed with the 9mm I just dont have time. Finishing my new gas block & I can start on prototype #2. I plan to run #1 full auto today. If she runs I think my new gas system will be just what I need to finalize it. I have 5 various calibers to get started & finished next week. Just to many irons in the fire. What kind of barrel lengths are you looking at for the 9mm? Have you ran them suppressed yet? Started with a 10.5" brl because the 16" will be a non issue. As soon as I am 100% happy with the 10.5" I will cut it to 7.5" & start all over again. No supressors yet but starting on some next week. Will you start selling 10.5" uppers once you are 100% happy with them? |
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Its feasible but I am concerned about the short stroke of the carrier. On the other hand the carrier would be lighter making it easyer for the weapon to cycle. Just would need time to work with the idea & look at it more thuroughly. Right now I am so consumed with the 9mm I just dont have time. Finishing my new gas block & I can start on prototype #2. I plan to run #1 full auto today. If she runs I think my new gas system will be just what I need to finalize it. I have 5 various calibers to get started & finished next week. Just to many irons in the fire. What kind of barrel lengths are you looking at for the 9mm? Have you ran them suppressed yet? Started with a 10.5" brl because the 16" will be a non issue. As soon as I am 100% happy with the 10.5" I will cut it to 7.5" & start all over again. No supressors yet but starting on some next week. Will you start selling 10.5" uppers once you are 100% happy with them?
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So does this DI 9mm only work with 115gr ammo? i can only assume, seeing as i am not the manufacturer, but i would assume seeing as 115 grains is the lightest commercially available 9mm ammo, that the upper would cycle with ANY 9MM AMMO.normally if it will cycle the weak stuff, it will cycle anything. p.s. one of the 5 various calibers he is working on right now is a .357 mag upper, that i ordered. The 115g loads seemed to be the worst but the 147 will generate more dwell time because they are slower to leave the bore. This is one reason the DI45 works. Most felt that the low pressures of the 45 would not work in the AR. They forgot that the slower velocity & heavy bullet created dwell time. More time for the pressure to act on the bolt. amphibian, I have never fired a MP5 but the DI45 is amazing on full auto. Watch the muzzle in this video. DI45 Your 357mag upper is on deck. Wraping up your brl today. Hope to do some testing in another week. Wow, that FA DI45 is insane; almost no recoil. I bet this 9mm DI will have less recoil than an mp5. Now we need to get some of the press to take note, so they can stop gushing all over the KRISS, as Ron's DI45 puts the right solution in the right platform without having to invent some complex recoil mitigation system... standard manual of arms, standard maintenance, standard components. Muzzle rise is nil... on a 9mm DI it will be truly nil. Having shot the 7.62c25 DI FA, it is indeed like an MP5.... |
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Can someone list the advantages of a DI 9mm compared to blow back please....I am a bit ignorant. Thanks in advance. The advantages of DI system vs "straight blow back" like the Colt style 9mm AR would be less recoil and in theory longer life of the bolt group parts. Some have reported after heavy use of their Colt AR 9mm, broken firing pins and other failures. This system would take much of that weight needed in a blow back setup, and uses the gases to drives the bolt. So you have a lighter bolt group and lighter buffer= less weight slamming back and forth. This would also be very attractive for Full Auto for all the reasons above. As others have mentioned, the MP5/HK94 being the smoothest 9mm carbine/SMG. It uses a roller lock blow back system. I do love mine and it is a pleasure to shoot. I am wondering what lower Ron is basing his system off of. Hopefully using a CMMG lower with a normal buffer spring would work. I know I could just email Ron but I wanted to ask in the thread about what lower he is basing his system off of and will there be any major modifications needed to be done. Also which mags? Will they need to be modified from the say Metalform mags that a CMMG would use? |
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I am wondering what lower Ron is basing his system off of. Hopefully using a CMMG lower with a normal buffer spring would work. I know I could just email Ron but I wanted to ask in the thread about what lower he is basing his system off of and will there be any major modifications needed to be done. Also which mags? Will they need to be modified from the say Metalform mags that a CMMG would use?
He said somewhere that he is using modified uzi mags and cproducts mags. From the above, metalform mags would be fine and your cmmg lower would also work (unless there is something that needs to be done to the feedramps or ejector). |
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So does this DI 9mm only work with 115gr ammo? i can only assume, seeing as i am not the manufacturer, but i would assume seeing as 115 grains is the lightest commercially available 9mm ammo, that the upper would cycle with ANY 9MM AMMO.normally if it will cycle the weak stuff, it will cycle anything. p.s. one of the 5 various calibers he is working on right now is a .357 mag upper, that i ordered. The 115g loads seemed to be the worst but the 147 will generate more dwell time because they are slower to leave the bore. This is one reason the DI45 works. Most felt that the low pressures of the 45 would not work in the AR. They forgot that the slower velocity & heavy bullet created dwell time. More time for the pressure to act on the bolt. amphibian, I have never fired a MP5 but the DI45 is amazing on full auto. Watch the muzzle in this video. DI45 Your 357mag upper is on deck. Wraping up your brl today. Hope to do some testing in another week. Wow, that FA DI45 is insane; almost no recoil. I bet this 9mm DI will have less recoil than an mp5. Now we need to get some of the press to take note, so they can stop gushing all over the KRISS, as Ron's DI45 puts the right solution in the right platform without having to invent some complex recoil mitigation system... standard manual of arms, standard maintenance, standard components. Muzzle rise is nil... on a 9mm DI it will be truly nil. Having shot the 7.62c25 DI FA, it is indeed like an MP5.... I was thinking the same thing about the KRISS. I think they totally missed the boat on that one. |
As someone that has both Ron's DI 45 conversion and also a KRISS, they are both great guns. Both shoot one hole groups and handle very well. They both have their place in shooting, both are created from out of the box thinking. Now that Ron is putting the finishing touches on the 9mm, I think Ron will have another winner , and this is from someone that does not "like" or own a 9mm, but I can say that when Ron gets the 9mm into production I will have one, to add to my collection of Rons conversions, 45ACP, 40S&W, 10mm, 50AE,40 Super, 40 RMW, 6.5 RMW, 45 WinMag, 458 RMW. Now I see why I am always broke
I guess when he gets the DI .380 auto and DI 22LR running I can stop........... Not likely
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As someone that has both Ron's DI 45 conversion and also a KRISS, they are both great guns. Both shoot one hole groups and handle very well. They both have their place in shooting, both are created from out of the box thinking. Now that Ron is putting the finishing touches on the 9mm, I think Ron will have another winner , and this is from someone that does not "like" or own a 9mm, but I can say that when Ron gets the 9mm into production I will have one, to add to my collection of Rons conversions, 45ACP, 40S&W, 10mm, 50AE,40 Super, 40 RMW, 6.5 RMW, 45 WinMag, 458 RMW. Now I see why I am always broke
I guess when he gets the DI .380 auto and DI 22LR running I can stop........... Not likely He needs to build some 9mm Mak uppers - he can use my reamer and gages, I'm not using them right now... |
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So does this DI 9mm only work with 115gr ammo? i can only assume, seeing as i am not the manufacturer, but i would assume seeing as 115 grains is the lightest commercially available 9mm ammo, that the upper would cycle with ANY 9MM AMMO.normally if it will cycle the weak stuff, it will cycle anything. p.s. one of the 5 various calibers he is working on right now is a .357 mag upper, that i ordered. The 115g loads seemed to be the worst but the 147 will generate more dwell time because they are slower to leave the bore. This is one reason the DI45 works. Most felt that the low pressures of the 45 would not work in the AR. They forgot that the slower velocity & heavy bullet created dwell time. More time for the pressure to act on the bolt. amphibian, I have never fired a MP5 but the DI45 is amazing on full auto. Watch the muzzle in this video. DI45 Your 357mag upper is on deck. Wraping up your brl today. Hope to do some testing in another week. Wow, that FA DI45 is insane; almost no recoil. I bet this 9mm DI will have less recoil than an mp5. Now we need to get some of the press to take note, so they can stop gushing all over the KRISS, as Ron's DI45 puts the right solution in the right platform without having to invent some complex recoil mitigation system... standard manual of arms, standard maintenance, standard components. Muzzle rise is nil... on a 9mm DI it will be truly nil. Having shot the 7.62c25 DI FA, it is indeed like an MP5.... I have some ideas to pick up the cycle rate & smoothe it out some more. Tried to slow it down & it got choppy. Right now it is amazing how smooth it is. |
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I have an RRA LAR-9 9mm AR Pistol that I suppress, so it is even dirtier than a normal blowback.
I have to clean out the chamber every 120 rounds or I get malfunctions. When Ron gets his to work with 147gr 9mm and suppressed, I will be buying one - maybe to SBR and maybe to keep as a pistol. I am assuming/hoping this will cut down on the port noise as well. Have you thought of adding a screw adjustable chamber to the front of the gas system, to retard the unlocking when suppressed? Or pig-tailing the gas tube a bit? |
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I have an RRA LAR-9 9mm AR Pistol that I suppress, so it is even dirtier than a normal blowback. I have to clean out the chamber every 120 rounds or I get malfunctions. When Ron gets his to work with 147gr 9mm and suppressed, I will be buying one - maybe to SBR and maybe to keep as a pistol. I am assuming/hoping this will cut down on the port noise as well. Have you thought of adding a screw adjustable chamber to the front of the gas system, to retard the unlocking when suppressed? Or pig-tailing the gas tube a bit? Doing more tests tomorrow. Running this wide open for basic use. If you get the "pop" out of the ejection port she needs more buffer. Opening too early. Not saying I wont build systems around supressed use only
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I have an RRA LAR-9 9mm AR Pistol that I suppress, so it is even dirtier than a normal blowback. I have to clean out the chamber every 120 rounds or I get malfunctions. When Ron gets his to work with 147gr 9mm and suppressed, I will be buying one - maybe to SBR and maybe to keep as a pistol. I am assuming/hoping this will cut down on the port noise as well. Have you thought of adding a screw adjustable chamber to the front of the gas system, to retard the unlocking when suppressed? Or pig-tailing the gas tube a bit? Doing more tests tomorrow. Running this wide open for basic use. If you get the "pop" out of the ejection port she needs more buffer. Opening too early. Not saying I wont build systems around supressed use only
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g61/ron458/Supressedupper.jpg That looks awesome. |
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So would a DI 9mm set up, or any pistol caliber setup really, be better at handling +P and +P+ ammo? Or hotter more towards rifle pressure loads? Rock Yep. May need to try diferent buffers to get it were it runs the best though. My latest mod has the DI9mm running a H3 buffer with room to spare. Way too much gas is passing through the carrier making the bolt dirty. Just could not handle alot of sustained full auto before choking. This is a good thing. Now I can back & make the port smaller! |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - 9mm DI UPDATE (Page 1 of 5)
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