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Posted: 1/15/2011 12:01:22 AM EDT
| Can I build a 9mm off of a 223 lower? |
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yes, you need a mag block like the one Spike's or Rock River sells and possibly a 9mm hammer (although ADCO sells a bolt group that allows you to run your 223 hammer). You will also need a 9mm buffer (it's heavier than the 223 one) because the 9mm operates purely on recoil instead of gas like the 223. After you put the components together, all you have to do is tweak the mag block so that the rifle cycles.
Enjoy!! |
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Lots of info and discussion over on the Pistol and Rimfire Calibers Forum. I have learned a bunch there. Lots of RKIs who are willing to share. Not much flaming either. Almost like it's not an "ARFCOM" site.
Best of luck with whatever system you decide on. Not legal advice, MHO, YMMV, etc. |
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I'm going to tag onto this thread for some advice from the 9mm shooters.
I've decided to jump in, but it will have to be a little at a time as the budget allows. I've have bought a 9mm barrel and upper receiver, and have decided on a CMMG ramped bolt. I already have some of the other stuff needed (stock, buffer tube and spring) and have built several 223/556 ARs previously. Now I need to decide on a lower. I am going to go with a dedicated 9mm lower, and am aware that these are made by RRA, CMMG, and DDLES. Is there any reason I might want to choose one of these over the others? Also need some advice on magazines. 3 or 4 mags will be enough, but I don't know which ones are good and which are junk. Are there shorter 5 or 10 rounds mags if I want to shoot this thing off the bench? Eventually this build will have MOE grip and stock and handguards, a forward grip, and I'll probably put my EO Tech on this one. |
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I had a 9mm build with mag adapter and liked 9mm. So....I got a dedicate 9mm lower from CMMG. Looked at RRA but cost way too much. CMMG has the best price and mine works great with a lot of different magazines. I know CProducts tells people not to use them with RRA as they have issues. My CMMG loves them, I love the price of them.
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Thanks for the move mods. I dont plan on using an OLY . I am too afraid it will hurt the resale of the gun. I am considering one of the companies that doesnt mark their lowers 223/5.56.
I just got some bad news. My truck repairs are $3k. This is putting a little damper on the 5.56 varminter build, the m4 build , 9mm build and the two 10/22 builds which are just lacking optics. Kind of PO's me , but , I think I will at least get the lowers I need. I just bought one stripped spikes and was going to buy a Stag and then I havent decided on the 9mm lower yrt. This is why I am asking the questions. |
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Quoted: I've got a CMMG and Lone Wolf. I'm going to tag onto this thread for some advice from the 9mm shooters. I've decided to jump in, but it will have to be a little at a time as the budget allows. I've have bought a 9mm barrel and upper receiver, and have decided on a CMMG ramped bolt. I already have some of the other stuff needed (stock, buffer tube and spring) and have built several 223/556 ARs previously. Now I need to decide on a lower. I am going to go with a dedicated 9mm lower, and am aware that these are made by RRA, CMMG, and DDLES. Is there any reason I might want to choose one of these over the others? Also need some advice on magazines. 3 or 4 mags will be enough, but I don't know which ones are good and which are junk. Are there shorter 5 or 10 rounds mags if I want to shoot this thing off the bench? Eventually this build will have MOE grip and stock and handguards, a forward grip, and I'll probably put my EO Tech on this one. Haven't built the LW up yet, but some cons to it, no bolt hold open and requires mods to the bolt. The CMMG works pretty well, the mags ride pretty high, so I had to modify my metalforms to work with it. They held the round at too much of an angle, rounds would impact above the barrel instead of going into the chamber. Leveled out the followers and they work fine now. I've only had one malfunction with it, unfortunately, that was a bolt override that was a pain in the ass to clear. The round was flipped around, primer to the front, stuck between the charging handle and bolt. |
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Quoted:
CMMG = best price around! RRA is nearly twice as much, but what do you gain? If I'm not mistaken, CMMG complete 9mm guns are right around a grand and RRA complete rifles are right around a grand. Are you saying that you are finding complete CMMG 9mm rifles for about $500 (half the price of RRA)? If so, please share where. I'm not able to find much of a difference in price of complete uppers between CMMG and RRA either - they both seem to be around $500 give or take. If you are finding complete CMMG 9mm uppers for $250 (half the price of RRA), I'd also be very interested in where you are finding them. Heck, I'm sure a huge amount of people here would be very interested as well. I'll give you that there is a price difference between CMMG and RRA on the dedicated 9mm lowers, but I'm not sure the RRA lower is actually twice as much as the CMMG lower when you compare actual street prices being paid for each. Anyway, I'll be anxiously awaiting your reply... |
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My RRA uppers work fine with my CMMG lowers.
As for the price difference, I have no idea of "whole gun" prices as 90% of my AR's were pieced together by me. When I went to get a dedicated 0mm lower the price difference between the RRA (Which I wanted) was so much more than a CMMG I could not believe it. The CMMG was a BARGAIN compared to the RRA. The CMMG functions perfectly with all the mags I put in it so what is not to love? Also, I use the CMMG ramped bolt. Cheaper than the RRA bolt and is already nicely ramped. I have a couple of RRA .223's that I like and that fun perfectly. I am a RRA fan, but when it came to 9mm CMMG just beat them up. Now, those cool lowers that actually are made for the size of the 9mm magzine are pretty and I wouldn't mind one of those at all. Some of the pictures people post here of their builds on these look mighty sweet. If I could find a local dealer who wouldn't charge me $50 for a transfer I might get one. Time I pay $75 extra it really prices them out of my budget. The CMMG lower I get through a local dealer who sells CMMG parts at discount no less and that really makes a sweet deal. BTW, when I was looking at the 9mm lowers and pricing them at the local dealer...who likes RRA, he was shocked by the price difference himself and said he wouldn't pay it. This from a RRA fan and dealer. Says it all. |
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Quoted:
...I am a RRA fan, but when it came to 9mm CMMG just beat them up. I don't understand what you mean by "beat them up". I'm aware of the price difference between CMMG and RRA integrated lowers, and a maybe $20-30 difference between a CMMG and an Adco ramped RRA 9mm bolt, but on pretty much everything else 9mm related, doesn't seem to have much of a difference in price between the two. 9mm complete uppers and 9mm complete guns are pretty much the same price from both - actual street prices, not MSRP comparisons. So, am I missing something here? I fail to see how a big difference in price on one 9mm part (integrated lower) between CMMG and RRA somehow translates to "CMMG = best price around! RRA is nearly twice as much, but what do you gain?" I assume it was just a wild over the top statement with no real basis in reality, but if there is some chance it is real, I have a credit card on standby for about a dozen or so $500 complete CMMG 9mm guns and maybe 40 or so $250 complete CMMG 9mm uppers...I just need to know who to call... 
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Quoted:
Quoted:
...I am a RRA fan, but when it came to 9mm CMMG just beat them up. I don't understand what you mean by "beat them up". I'm aware of the price difference between CMMG and RRA integrated lowers, and a maybe $20-30 difference between a CMMG and an Adco ramped RRA 9mm bolt, but on pretty much everything else 9mm related, doesn't seem to have much of a difference in price between the two. 9mm complete uppers and 9mm complete guns are pretty much the same price from both - actual street prices, not MSRP comparisons. So, am I missing something here? I fail to see how a big difference in price on one 9mm part (integrated lower) between CMMG and RRA somehow translates to "CMMG = best price around! RRA is nearly twice as much, but what do you gain?" I assume it was just a wild over the top statement with no real basis in reality, but if there is some chance it is real, I have a credit card on standby for about a dozen or so $500 complete CMMG 9mm guns and maybe 40 or so $250 complete CMMG 9mm uppers...I just need to know who to call... Beat them up on price/value. My dealer carries RRA and CMMG. When I went to buy a lower RRA was my first choice as I liked their products and had an RRA upper. When the dealer and I went to price the lowers to order one and saw over $100 difference between them, he said the same thing I did, "Who would buy the RRA at that price!" We were not pricing whole guns, just lowers. I don't do complete rifles....so the complete rifle price was not in the equation, just the pricing on the lowers. Neither the dealer nor I could see how RRA could charge that much more for the lower. So, CMMG just "beat up" RRA on price and value for the buck ON A 9MM LOWER. They are both fine units, CMMG just priced theirs a lot better. Nothing "wild or over the top about it. The RRA was MORE, by a lot. 9MM0900X 9mm RRA LAR-9 Complete Lower Half / A2 Buttstock 9mm marked, complete with all conversions parts. $455.00 CMMG: Dedicated 9mm Lower with Dedicated Mag Well and 6 Pos. Stock The integral magazine well is compatible with Colt and modified Uzi style magazines. Our lower receivers feature Mil-Spec, .250 diameter take-down pins and .154 diameter fire control pins. Aircraft grade 7075 T6 aluminum billet is hard coat anodized to Mil-Spec. All internals are semi-auto, Mil-Spec. Receivers are RDIAS/RLL compatible. This receiver comes with all of the lower parts, front take-down pin, fire control group, semi-auto selector, trigger guard, pistol grip and magazine catch/release, 9mm buffer & 6 position stock installed. Part Number:L-9003 Price: $325.95 About 30% less for the CMMG. I bought mine without the stock, a complete lower with all internals including 9mm proper rounded hammer for my ramped bolt, paid about $218 for it at the time. The RRA was MUCH more. CMMG beat them up on price....Also, some report CProducts mags don't work with the RRA lower. I like CProducts mags, have a lot of them. They are 100% GTG in my CMMG lower. Again, CMMG beat up RRA on that. Over the top? Naw.... |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
...I am a RRA fan, but when it came to 9mm CMMG just beat them up. I don't understand what you mean by "beat them up". I'm aware of the price difference between CMMG and RRA integrated lowers, and a maybe $20-30 difference between a CMMG and an Adco ramped RRA 9mm bolt, but on pretty much everything else 9mm related, doesn't seem to have much of a difference in price between the two. 9mm complete uppers and 9mm complete guns are pretty much the same price from both - actual street prices, not MSRP comparisons. So, am I missing something here? I fail to see how a big difference in price on one 9mm part (integrated lower) between CMMG and RRA somehow translates to "CMMG = best price around! RRA is nearly twice as much, but what do you gain?" I assume it was just a wild over the top statement with no real basis in reality, but if there is some chance it is real, I have a credit card on standby for about a dozen or so $500 complete CMMG 9mm guns and maybe 40 or so $250 complete CMMG 9mm uppers...I just need to know who to call... Sorry for the confusion, I was talking about the dedicated 9mm striped lowers. I've done some looking around for a RRA 9mm lower, and the lowest I could find was in the 330-340 range. A CMMG 9mm lower is 175.00, so it's almost half the price of RRA. I wanted to go w/ RRA first, I like their stuff, but not for that kind of price! |
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Quoted:
I'm slowly accumulating the parts for my 9mm build and have a question. I'm planning to use Magpul MOE furniture, including handguards. How do you keep the handguards from rotating since there isn't a gas tube? NOT a problem at all! Most hand guards lock into all those teeth on the barrel nut. Heck, on my two 9mm's and my two .22's, none off which have gas tubes, you can not make the hand guards move. Don't worry about it, trust me. |
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Sight base should have tube hole in most instance... I got a burnt gas tube from fella and use it as a barrel nut lock... I just cut the end off the tube so it not stick inside the main receiver area. You should be able to see gas tube in the pic –– http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v504/capttoyota/AR-15%20misc/PICT0233.jpg I was afraid that would be the answer, my Spikes billet 9mm upper doesn't even have a hole for the gas tube. I guess I could pin the front ring to the front sight base, but I wonder how solid the HG would be only secured at the front. |
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I was afraid that would be the answer, my Spikes billet 9mm upper doesn't even have a hole for the gas tube. I guess I could pin the front ring to the front sight base, but I wonder how solid the HG would be only secured at the front. What is holding the barrel on the upper? As I said before, I have four uppers with no gas tube. The hand guards all lock in tight on the barrel nut. No issues at all. |
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I was afraid that would be the answer, my Spikes billet 9mm upper doesn't even have a hole for the gas tube. I guess I could pin the front ring to the front sight base, but I wonder how solid the HG would be only secured at the front. What is holding the barrel on the upper? As I said before, I have four uppers with no gas tube. The hand guards all lock in tight on the barrel nut. No issues at all. I haven't assembled the thing yet, still waiting on parts. It will have a standard barrel nut/delta ring arrangement. I hope you're right and I'm worrying about nothing. |
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I'm slowly accumulating the parts for my 9mm build and have a question. I'm planning to use Magpul MOE furniture, including handguards. How do you keep the handguards from rotating since there isn't a gas tube? I have two Colt 9mm's, both do not have the handguard cap pinned (i.e. it will freely rotate around the barrel). As said above, when you put the handguards on, the grooves in the h.g.'s will lock into the barrel nut preventing any sort of movement or rotation. Mine get thoroughly used and abused, I have never had a handguard problem. I had a Model 1 Sales lightweight 9mm barrel, the front sight base had the handguard cap attached. The gastube hole was tapped for a small screw which firmly attached the handgaurd cap. If I can find the FSB, I will put up a picture of it. Similar methods of attachment are used for "dissipator" setups. |
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How much do those Oly mags run? Have they figured out customer service yet? They are pricey at $45 a pop IIRC. But they are built like tanks. Their customer service has been fine for a few years. Ten years ago - terrible. I've dealt with Justin and Lee more than a few times and others as well. I get the same level of customer service I do at Glock, Bushmaster, Remington, and Ruger. Now Spikes and Kel Tec have the industry's best reputation. But Olympic Arms quality has been fine for years. Hell I scored a 12-year old 45 ACP carbine and chopped the barrel and mounted on a pistol lower and it runs like a raped ape. Remember, Oly is near Seattle and holding onto great employees will always be a problem as it is very expensive to live here. $1500 monthly rent for a nice apartment, $3.50/gallon of gas, competition for jobs is tight as SF and LA coming all of the time, and houses are $400K minimum and in my area that is a dumpy shotgun shack rental. $650K is average with household incomes of $100K plus in the area. That's why it's best to do manufacturing in lower cost areas. Kel Tec and Spikes have it right being in Florida. Call and be cool - just like everything else in life. |
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Thanks for the move mods. I dont plan on using an OLY . I am too afraid it will hurt the resale of the gun. I am considering one of the companies that doesnt mark their lowers 223/5.56. I just got some bad news. My truck repairs are $3k. This is putting a little damper on the 5.56 varminter build, the m4 build , 9mm build and the two 10/22 builds which are just lacking optics. Kind of PO's me , but , I think I will at least get the lowers I need. I just bought one stripped spikes and was going to buy a Stag and then I havent decided on the 9mm lower yrt. This is why I am asking the questions. Sorry to hear about your truck. My 95 VW has been parked for 8 months due to a wiring harness fire and it is tough soldering about 40 new wires and reinstalling it all. Hang in there man. Buy what you'll be happy with.
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