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Posted: 12/31/2009 7:25:13 PM EDT
| I've searched this site and the web extensively and cannot find a solution to my problem. I'm running the kit in a RRA lower, that I put the standard trigger back in because somewhere I'd read the 2 stage is a problem with the kits. I put the upper together with RRA A3, and a used 1:12 pencil barrel, bird cage flash hider. I've polished all bearing surfaces of the kit, tried various remington, CCI, Federal loads, Ciener, Black Dog gen 1 and 2 mags, replaced recoil spring and ligher hammer spring. I still get failure to eject allmost every round. I've tried moly slide grease, std lube, dry lube, etc. I've worked the unit hundreds of times out of the gun and in the gun. When I hand cycle, about 3/4 of the way back, I encounter resistance, which I assume is the hammer reset. Only thing I can figure is the hammer reset is slowing the rearward momentum enough that as the extracted case hits the ejector, it doesn't have the force to kick it out. I have not tried trimming the recoil spring. Could the problem be with the RRA Std trigger? I hate to put much $ into this, but don't want to give up on it. Any help is greatly appreciated. |
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I ran my ciener with a standard trigger for a long time without issues. I do not think it is a recoil spring issue or bolt velocity thing. You are not going to get that same resistance when firing, I mean that extra resistance 3/4 the way down. After firing the bolt os going to be having even more resistance than hat due to it having to fully reset the hammer.
This sounds like an extractor issue, but i need to know what kind of failure to eject it is. Is it stovepiping or not coming out of the chamber? I ran only enough oil on my kit to keep it from rusting. |
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I think it might be an extractor issue. Take a look in the chamber just to be sure and make sue there isn't anything weird there.
This thread might help.. http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=15&t=395579 Also Spike's has a tuning guide that relates since the kits are similar. http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=282&t=168048 They do mention a lighter hammer spring might help in some apps. |
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Quoted:
Thanks fo the links. I have not removed and polished the extractor/groove. Good info. Much appreciated! I was curious if you've tried shooting your kit with no magazine in the well. If the conversion kit ejects with no magazine its possible the magazine retainer is cut a little high in your lower. If you had access to another lower or rifle to try your kit to see if the problem is with the kit or the rifle. I had one 15 round BDM mag and my 10 round Ciener mags that I had to tweak to keep the extracted round from hitting the top of the feed lips. I'd also look at the ejector which is attached to the left side of the guide rail. Make sure the ejector is not deformed and is level. The front edge of my ejector sits .930" from the inside edge of the chamber insert on the frame rail. My ejector measures ,410" from the outside of the rail to the inside corner (tip/point) of the ejector. It might be worth checking the location on the ejector on your kit. 
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Thanks fo the links. I have not removed and polished the extractor/groove. Good info. Much appreciated! I was curious if you've tried shooting your kit with no magazine in the well. If the conversion kit ejects with no magazine its possible the magazine retainer is cut a little high in your lower. If you had access to another lower or rifle to try your kit to see if the problem is with the kit or the rifle. I had one 15 round BDM mag and my 10 round Ciener mags that I had to tweak to keep the extracted round from hitting the top of the feed lips. I'd also look at the ejector which is attached to the left side of the guide rail. Make sure the ejector is not deformed and is level. The front edge of my ejector sits .930" from the inside edge of the chamber insert on the frame rail. My ejector measures ,410" from the outside of the rail to the inside corner (tip/point) of the ejector. It might be worth checking the location on the ejector on your kit. I have not tried shooting w/o mag and I do have 2 other lowers I can try. One lower has RRA 2 stage trigger that I thought I read somewhere was trouble with kits, the other has a Jard trigger. I'll check my measurements, but the extractor looks ok. I do have another extractor I bought when I picked up the Lakeside spring kit. I haven't pulled the extractor to polsh yet but hope to this weekend. Thanks for the input. I'll post back result. |
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Socket I have run several conversion kit with RRA NM triggers without any problem. I also have friends who are using RRA NM triggers with their Ciener/CMMG kits with no issue. Its worth a try switching between uppers and lowers with the Ciener. A couple thousandths can make a lot of difference on these kits. The 15 round BDM mag I had trouble with had an inside feed lip which was to high. I made a few passes with a file till it was the same height as the other mags I had. This mag caused a lot of stove pipe jams until I lowered the feed lip. I've not had a malfunction with this mag since. If the rifle will eject with no mag that should tell you something. Either the mags are interfering with the ejection or the pressure from the rounds in the mag pushing up on the bottom of the bolt is slowing the bolt enough to cause the jams or the mag catch is out of spec and letting the mags ride to high. If the rifle will function with no mag try loading one or two rounds in the mag and see if it will function or jam. One other thing I noticed using RRA NM hammers is my firing pins lasted longer or mag. Using standard hammer and springs I got about a 1/2 to 1/3 the firing pin life as I do using the RRA NM trigger. Hang in there I think you can sort it out.
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Well I finally got out to the range. I replaced the original extractor and loaded up a few mags. Seems the mags are the problem. I have 3 of the original black dog 30 rounders and bought 2 of the 26 rounders when I got the spring kit extractor and firing pin. Out of 100 or so rounds through the new mags, I had 2 FTF and 2 FTE!! Both failures to feed were the 2nd round in the mag. One failure to eject was a stovepipe, the other just didn't exit the upper. I put 20 rounds in the older 30 rounder and it choked right off the bat. I ran Win 36 gr HV bulk, Minimags, Rem goldens...through the new mags and all seemed to function well. Hopefully now that I can get 20+ rounds down the tube without problems I hope a couple sessions of heavy firing will loosen things up and improve even more. Anyone else have trouble with the 30 rounders, and not the 26's?
ETA: Still running the RRA notched hammer. May swap the trigger back to the RRA 2-stage |
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