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Posted: 10/15/2008 3:12:50 PM EDT
| I have a AR with a DMPS lower, DPMS LPK, and a RRA Car A4 upper. I am thinking about a Ciener .22LR conversion kit. I hear people saying that a dedicated .22LR upper with the proper twist rate is better. I have a 1:9" twist rate in my RAA upper. I was just wondering about accuracy of .22LR out of my 16" RAA upper? I am mainly looking for a plinking gun and to spend more trigger time in my AR with current sights/trigger. For more precise uses I will either use .223 or my marlin model 60. I can't ever see my self shooting past 100yrds with the ciener kit. Mostly less than 50. |
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I have a RCS upper... It uses the ciener converstion and has a 10/22 barrel (16" 1/16 twist)... I was very pleased with the groupings I got, but i always seemed to have a flyer in each of my groups. Im not sure if it was me causing it or is in inherent problem with .22's.. Here are some pics of groupings If you make the pics large, it easier to see the captions of ammo type.. brian |
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The Ceiner actually runs pretty good in the 1/9 twist barrels I have run it in. Things will start to get sloppy with the 1/7 in most cases. Like most 22's you will be well served to try lots of different ammo brands and types in your actual gun . Generally the standard velocity ammo will show better accuracy. I use quite a bit of CCI std,Aguilla standard velocity and Wolf MT (which is getting hard to find) Most boxes of Rem Golden bulk have been poor in both accuracy and reliability but some have recently reported better results. Federal bulk has been ok and Fedrel Auto match bulk has been pretty nice. I like to compare a stock AR with stock trigger as similar accuracy to a stock 10/22 When I use my ar with a better trigger , good scope and carefully selected ammo I have to work to beat it with my 10/22Target gun (which is a very good shooter) |
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What level of accuracy are you looking for? For pure accuracy with a 22 rimfire you can not beat an Anschutz with matched ammunition. Group size is well under 3/4" at 100 yards, fired Prone with either a scope or Iron Sights. In fact reading the conditions is extreemly important shooting the rimfire rounds for proper accuracy. For training for self defence you need to train in positions not condusive to pure accurate shooting, ie. shooting on the move, working a corner, using a light with one hand while supporting the rifle and holding the light. For training the Ceiner kits work well for this type of training and are more than accurate enough for the needed accuracy. The main reason I prefer the dedicated uppers is that I don't like the lead build up associated with the kits. Think in terms of Minute of Felon not Minute of Angle when using the rimfire in an AR-15 platform. I just thought of the only other area where the dedicated 22 rimfire upper and accuracy in important...using the upper for Service Rifle Training at reduced distrances. |
Leading is not so much the issue as powder residue. The .22LR cartridge is inherently dirty and the usual concern is that the gas system will become fouled. I've heard that firing a magazine of .223 after a session of .22LR is usually enough to clean this out. Since the .22LR conversions are blowback, they don't require a gas system. |
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I have a RCS upper... It uses the ciener converstion and has a 10/22 barrel (16" 1/16 twist)... I was very pleased with the groupings I got, but i always seemed to have a flyer in each of my groups. Im not sure if it was me causing it or is in inherent problem with .22's.. Here are some pics of groupings If you make the pics large, it easier to see the captions of ammo type.. brian What is the target distance for these groups? |
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I posted this pic before but will post it again the group was 10 shots at 25 yds with aquilla 60 grain sss 22lr 1-9 twist barrel and ciener kit. I fired these shots from a kneeling rest.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f247/jwb47/IMG_0101.jpg |
I did a test a while back to see the difference between dedicated uppers and my 1 in 9 inch twist 5.56 barrels. Just as with the 5.56 the dedicated 22 rimfire definitely prefer some ammo over other ammo. Some of the most consistent ammo I found was CCI Mini Mags and Aguila 40 grain SE plated ammo. I get fliers with all 22 ammo but I got definitely more fliers out of the 1 in 9 inch twist barrels. I shot a RRA 16 inch CM middy and 20 inch Colt chrome lined barrels for comparison (both heavy barrels). I could get groups as small as 3/4 an inch at 50 yards shooting off a bipod and 2.5 X 10 power scope with the 1 in 9 barrels. I could get groups from 1/2 to 3/4 with the dedicated barrels with the best ammo. The problem with the 1 in 9 inch twist was you'd have 2 or 3 rounds in a good group then a flier would double the size of the group. I never got any key holes just bigger groups than dedicated barrel. Some of the groups with bulk ammo would run from 1.5 inches to 2.5 inches. I also shot my sons Marlin bolt action rifle with a 3 to 9 scope and it really didn't shoot any better with the ammo on hand than my dedicated AR's. I can get 1 MOA groups or less with the best ammo at 100 yards with my dedicated uppers and about 1 MOA to 4 MOA with my 1 in 9 barrel depending on ammo. For CQB training and plinking I think the 1 in 9 is fine. If your more interested in shooting small groups on paper targets you'd better get a dedicated upper IMHO.
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I am not to worried about leading, i have a chrome lined barrel and i buy copper coated/jacketed/plated/or what ever they do .22LR Leading is not so much the issue as powder residue. The .22LR cartridge is inherently dirty and the usual concern is that the gas system will become fouled. I've heard that firing a magazine of .223 after a session of .22LR is usually enough to clean this out. Since the .22LR conversions are blowback, they don't require a gas system. I have at several different times shot at least 1000 rounds of rimfire without shooting any 5.56. THE First 5.56 after all that rimfire worked the action with no problems. My shooting is all semi without a can .Full auto and surpresed fire could be different. A pluged gas system is possible but unlikely . When you compare the cost of a new gas tube to a mag of 5.56 ammo (about the same) you will see that blowing off 5.56 ammo just to "clean" the gas tube is nuts |
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