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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Another CP 9mm mag question (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 9/6/2008 1:09:37 AM EDT
| So whats the word on the new CP 32rnd black teflon mags? are they repainting all the old returned mags or are they actually new? 44 mag has em for $16.99 seems to good to be true. Anyone used any yet? |
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Have they unscrewed themselves with the defective mags and gotten them right yet? I have been waiting to buy some C Products mags based on that fact that supposedly they are fixing them so that they function properly and that you do not have to "adjust" the mag well adapter. Anyone know what the status on their new mags is? By the way. You can get them direct from CProducts web site for $17.99. Only a dollar more. |
While I did install my RRA block just slightly lower than flush with the top of mag well. My CP mags have been flawless so far. I also used a Promag just once with the same results. I know others have had problems, but I'm very happy with mine. I just ordered a few more. |
| I just went to the range yesterday. I bought 200 rounds to do a function test on two 32rd mags that I ordered from 44mag.com. I put 100 rounds through each mag and only one FTF on the X marked mag. I think the mag spring was still tight because it was new. I even bump fired a whole mag with no problems. I'm happy so far. |
I am not intimately familiar with all the the versions and releases from C Products. What are the "X" marked mags? |
9mm Mag Questions from CP industry forum 2nd posting from APRIL 2008
and 5th posting, also from APRIL 2008
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I bought two 20 rounders and a 32 rounder from 44Mag, but have yet to try them. I will this weekend. I have an RRA. I don't remember how the mags are marked other that the SS. Update. The 32 rounder is Marked SS. The two 20 rounders are marked SS X. They have the old followers. I am going to email Larry and get new Gen II followers. AC |
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I have the following CP's; 5 32's and 3 20's . 3 of the 32's are X marked and two are marked only SS and all of my 20's are X marked. All of them are 100% reliable. I also have a bunch of pro mags and they are also 100% reliable, but they bulge when loaded and need to be shoved in to make sure they engage the mag catch, but drop free when empty. The CP's go in easy and drop free empty or loaded. At $17.00 each you cant go wrong. A friend of my had problems with CP's in his RRA, and I lowered his mag block per CP's instructions and now it feeds everything perfectly including his old Colt mags. G |
| Just got 2 of the cproducts mags and I'm having a problem with them feeding. My colt mag and My RRA modified Uzi mags feed fine but these new Cproducts do not. Should I try adjusting my RRA Magwell? or should I dremmel the feed lips of the mag? I recall seeing that thread here but I can't seem to find it now... |
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I took my 3 C Products mags out Sat morning. I adjusted my RRA block down .017 from the factory position where it had run flawlessly with the UZI mag. It ran 100% with all 3 C Products mags as well as the UZI mag. I shot it slow and rapid fire starting with full mags and everything fed, fired, and ejected perfectly. This was 115 FMJ. The next test will be some TrFP's and HP's. I had already ordered 2 more last week, so I am very happy with their performance. 
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| Dial caliper. I used the part that slides out of the body which is handy for measuring depth. The top of the mag block was flush with the lower, so I dropped it .017 below it. I also have a couple of depth gauge's with various length rods, but just used the Dial Caliper. |
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I don't know, but there doesn't seem to be much room for adjustment anyway. It would have to be limited to the size of the mag catch hole in the block. I'm don't think there's some precise sweet spot. I think lowering the block to it's lowest fit would probably work for most. |
Not sure, but I would guess that making that correction might screw up compatibility with other brands of mag blocks. I would imagine that Colt products take first priority with CP. No complaints from me though. That adjustment is a quick fix, and so far my RRA block and CP mags have had 0 malfunctions. |
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www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=15&t=387562 Worked perfect for me. Lowering my block did not, as the feed lips still dragged on the bolt. |
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I loaded up some Berry's 124 Gr HP's at an O.A.L. of 1.030 and tried them in the C Products mags today. These bullets are blunt and feed pretty poorly in some guns so I thought they would be a good test. 1.030 is short too. They shot just fine except for the last round in the mag. It would jam up with the tip over the chamber everytime. Wether fired or hand fed from the mag, the last round would do it eveytime. For me that is not bad, since these are poorly feeding bullets in general. I am going to try them loaded longer, and I am also going to try some Zero 125 Gr JHP's which are more pointy and I'll bet will run 100%. I am extremely pleased with the mags overall. Feed great, fit great, drop free, hold the bolt back. What's not to like. I am going to get more. 
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You know, this is all pretty damn sad. RRA and the Colt 6450 are the most commonly used 9mm AR platforms. What the hell is wrong with C Products producing magazines that dont function correctly in them, or require some petty modification in order to function properly? Why the hell don't they simply modify THEIR product to funcion properly in these weapon systems? |
+1 |
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So if it's not a design error, why do the original Colt/Metalform mags seem to work in many set-ups without requiring adjustment of the block? Maybe those had a "design error"?  Besides, when the CP mags don't work in a set-up that has a top load block with no up/down adjustment, how would one go about "adjusting" their block to get the CP mags to function properly? That brings up a whole 'nother problem as the CP mag follower seems to contact the feed ramp on most Hahn blocks (one of the more/most popular aftermarket blocks) when you get down to the last round or two. But I suppose that's not really a "design error" either as it only requires one to remove all their followers and modify the fronts fo them so they will clear the feedramp and not catch on it.  |
| I dropped my mag block .017 and now my RRA modified UZI mag and my C Products mags run flawlessly. I am happy with it. Easy to do. For those who take mag blocks in and out to use their lower for something else, they have to adjust them everytime they do it. As well as the C Products mags work for their reasonable price, it is a small thing to adjust a mag block. |
Again, this design was intended to be workable in the widest range of Colt-style carbines possible. That means that there must be some compromises. I don't see a 0.015-0.020" change in magazine block positioning as much of a hurdle to go over for reliable, available, and affordable magazines. |
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I've said it before and I will say it again. If you want a plug and play AR do not get the 9mm variant. Almost all 9mm configs require some minor tweeking. There are many variables between blocks, lowers, uppers, and magazines. Hell, my RRA 9mm mags won't even work in my now sold RRA block without minor tweaking. It took me all of about 5 min to fix all 8 CP mags to work 100% with BHO and a Hahn dedicated block. Wow, that is just too much to handle.  Next time you should go buy a overpriced colt and their magazines and it might work as advertised. If you are not up to the task, then don't buy one. But please don't bash a company like CP for not doing the tweaking for you. |
I call BS on that. Colt mags = not so great (functionality)? WTF? As far as availability, they are now readily available by the thousands direct from Metalform for just under $40 each.
There is a Colt spec for the 9mm AR platform. If manufacturers would just stick to that "spec", there wouldn't be as many, if any, problems. My AR platforms were and always have been "plug and play" when using Colt or properly modded Uzi mags. Problems only seem to come about when using mags other than those. Further, I find it odd that the CP mag has to have the block in a very specific position to work, whereas the block can be + or - 20 to 30 thousandths or more and still function just fine with Colt or Uzi mags. As far as minor tweaking, if you're talking set-up tweaks, like checking extractor tension and ejector position, I would hardly consider that tweaking. That is more a requirement of setting things up. If you have to grind on parts to make them work, that is more than tweaking - that is fixing someone else's mistakes. Whichever side of the CP 9mm mag debate one comes in on, there is no question it has proven to be a "debacle" over the last year, much the same way it was when the ProMag 9mm polymer mags first came out. If they work for you, great. If they don't, mess with them to your hearts content if you wish. Just my opinion - you don't have to agree with it or like it. |
Sure as long as you are willing to buy at least 400 of them! ETA - BTW has any one actually confimed those are the older Colt mags? |
Metalform is the original manufacturer of Colt 9mm mags. I've already placed my order for 6. I was confused about the pricing on their site as well, but when I called, it was explained to me that they just have one price for these mags, whether you order 1 or 400. |
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What is the difference in the SMG & USMG Colt/Metalform mags, besides what it says about the feed lips. From Metalform site: "SMG = Flat feed lips, USMG = upturned feed lips" Which is better? Why? Anybody know. I would like to try a couple just for curiousities sake if nothing else. |
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SMG style with flat feed lips is the original Colt style - the upturned feed lips are some new/er design - call them for more info (I didn't ask when I talked to them). Your call on the followers as they are offering both polymer and metal. (2 types of feed lips and 2 different followers - not 4 different models of mags.)
Well, my original Colt mags don't fountain whether I insert them into the gun with gusto ro drop them, so I guess that issue doesn't affect everyone. As far as cost, I bought several over the last 5 years and never paid more than $50-55 each for them. The only ones I ever saw for more than that were "pre-ban" ones people were trying to sell for $80-100 each.
The practical difference you forget is there are many different blocks out there. What adjustments should one make to a top loading block (that has no adjustments by the way) if CP mags don't work properly? |
And please note that it's uncommon for people to post gloatingly that "I just bought this new gadget and I'm having a LOT of fun with it," while it's VERY common for people to post gripes, whines, moans and complaints (frequently on more than one forum) about having difficulty. On a computer forum I moderate, the ratio of "I have a problem" to "I'm doing fine" is something like 250:1, and most of the "I'm doing fine" posts come AFTER the gripes. Further, the whiners (a small, but very annoying subset of those with problems) will whine for quite a while before they ever try any suggested fix for their computers. Apparently those whiners just like to see their prose online and simply like to vent... So my experience says that all the posts about problems represent a small percentage of people actually having problems, while the rest are out at the range enjoying their functional weapons, whether they had to tweak a tiny bit or not. |
Not saying your wrong (and I think you're probably right) but how did you confirm that?
Cool, Which ones did you order? Would you mind posting some pics and maybe a mini review of them when you get them and test them out? Thanks |
Man you want it all, huh? My experience with Colt mags is positive and you discount it - my experience with CP mags is not positive and you discount it. Fine, you win, because I give up.
All you have to do is call Metalform and ask them to confirm for yourself.
SMG style flat feed lips with polymer followers - after talking with Metalform, I expect them to be the same as the Colt mags I have bought over the last couple years. |
Sorry but I've had too many phone reps give me false information for me to take anything garnered that way as gospel. I will probably still get a couple to try out. If they work then I really don't care if they are the old Colts of not |
I can see how you would be skeptical ,so why not call and see who you get on the phone? I have talked to one of their engineers and plant managers before. It's not like calling Midway or some offshore CS/order hotline. Here's a snapshot of a group of parts off their website that includes the 9mm AR mags. Judge for yourself.  |
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i have an SBR 9MM and i use the CP mags with them. i'm using the 7" M1S upper, hahn topload, RRA bolt. anyway, i ave had to modify/ widen all the mag lips so the bolt would ride forward. i didn't mind, as i don't mind tinkering with guns abit to get them running good. i can run 115 FMJs all day long without a problem yesterday i got in some of this: http://www.dansammo.com/images/inv/AJ003.jpg http://www.dansammo.com/ammo.asp well, the hydra-shoks wouldn't feed at all. every round was hitting the lower edge of the feed ramp. so up to the shop i went. did a coupla things. took the dremel with the small round sanding bit, ground the lower edge of the feed ramp to give it more angle. now, instead of it being the same angel top to bottom, at the lower edge it drops off more in a nice curve. this mod help alot, but every 6 round or so a round would still catch up oni the lower edge of the ramp. next thing i did was take apart one of tha CPmags, then i took the same round sanding bit and cut INSIDE the feed lips, i made an angle that started low at the rear (didn't grind there) but angled slightly to the front, so now the rounds sit in the mag with the bullet point very slightly upwards. now the hydra-shoks feed perfectly everytime, along with the 115 FMJs. took it out to the range yesterday after work, had one FTE with the FMJs, and a coupla times the bolt wouldn't catch the last round, but other than that, it fed fine. |
So you took a mag that was "purposeful design intended to make these magazines work in the widest range of Colt-style 9mm carbines possible" and basically did a fairly substantial amount of mods to it. And, you also modified the feed ramp on a Hahn top load block in order to get your gun to work properly. And you just consider that to be "tinkering". Am I the only one that thinks WTF about this level of mods to mags or a gun just to get it to work? I have put together two 9mm AR's (one about 6 years ago and another within the last year) - I dropped a top load Hahn block into a RRA lower/DPMS LPK, adjusted the extractor to the proper position in relation to the bolt, popped a factory RRA 9mm upper on, and, USING REAL COLT MAGS OR PROPERLY MODDED UZI MAGS, both guns have just run with 115gr plated or FMJ RN, 125gr LRN, or 147gr Rangers. No issues whatsoever - unless I use "other" mags. I'm glad you were able to "tinker" your way to a working gun, but there is no valid reason you should have had to do any of what you did. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Another CP 9mm mag question (Page 1 of 2)
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