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Comments on Picture of my Ramped 9mm Bolt -- by ADCO (Page 2 of 3)
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Here is my step by step.
EDIT: I have since purchased some carbide micro radius tooling. Now the leading edge of the ramp has a radius exactly like a 5.56mm ramp. No more hand filing. showcase.netins.net/web/draftingunlimited/9mm%20bolt%20ramping.pdf New link location: http://www.minburncomm.net/~hassindustries/9mm%20bolt%20ramping.pdf |
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Originally Posted By bigbore: Here is a Colt.Originally Posted By trg42: If I were to do it again, I would reduce the length of the ramp as ADCO suggested. I have had the odd failure to cock the hammer with "light " loads Do you have a Colt 9mm bolt to measuer? I wonder if its any thicker than a RRA bolt? http://www.adcofirearms.com/random/bolt_thick.jpg We've had a few Colt 9mm owners buy 9mm RRA uppers with ramped bolts. The longer ramped RRA bolt would not cock any of the Colt 9mm hammers. Talk about a bitch - try finding a large pin M16 hammer to modify to work with a ramped bolt. We ended up every time swapping the longer amped bolts for the shorter ramped to get things to work. http://showcase.netins.net/web/draftingunlimited/Colt%209mm%20bolt.jpg |
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Very informative thread.
Originally Posted By RyanHass:
Here is my step by step. showcase.netins.net/web/draftingunlimited/9mm%20bolt%20ramping.pdf Thanks for the instructions. 
MN |
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Originally Posted By M4A2_L073754:
Very informative thread. Originally Posted By RyanHass:
Here is my step by step. showcase.netins.net/web/draftingunlimited/9mm%20bolt%20ramping.pdf Thanks for the instructions.
MN Your welcome. Glad I could help. 
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I got my ramped bolt from ADCO yesterday, shot with it today, and love it. It works really smoothly with my DPMS hammer.
Nice job! |
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A few questions/comments from another OCD kinda guy. 
A factory Colt will work just fine as it is, semi auto. For the sake of making the lower last longer, ramping the bolt is recommended. Ramping the bolt will also smooth out the cycle action. If the bolt is ramped on such rifle, it will need to get a standard .556 hammer for it. Would something like a RRA NM work after ramping? Would adding KNS pins still be a good idea after ramping? |
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Originally Posted By 0DDJ0B:
A few questions/comments from another OCD kinda guy.
A factory Colt will work just fine as it is, semi auto. For the sake of making the lower last longer, ramping the bolt is recommended. Ramping the bolt will also smooth out the cycle action. If the bolt is ramped on such rifle, it will need to get a standard .556 hammer for it. Would something like a RRA NM work after ramping? Would adding KNS pins still be a good idea after ramping? 1. Yes, a 5.56 hammer works best with a ramped bolt. DPMS in particular as it does not have a notched face. 2. I do not know. 3. KNS NR pins are always a good idea. |
| If the 9mm is FA I think the longer ramp lessens the beating on the autosear or DIAS as the hammer is bit slower when the sear catches it......depending on where it's caught as it begins to follow the bolt....I'm not sure if the contact poin torns the bolt corner before it's caught or not.....??? |
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Originally Posted By 1bayouboy:
If the 9mm is FA I think the longer ramp lessens the beating on the autosear or DIAS as the hammer is bit slower when the sear catches it......depending on where it's caught as it begins to follow the bolt....I'm not sure if the contact poin torns the bolt corner before it's caught or not.....??? From my experience with the Colt SMG, the stress is mostly on the hammer. I've seen broken hammer pins several times. In fact, today one broke on me in semi-auto fire and doubled a couple of times. These rifles are factory, with lots of rounds through them, and (being factory) they don't have any ramping. Never seen any trouble with the auto-sear, but I guess it's a possibility. I honestly don't like the SMG, as it seems insane that the all-mighty Colt needs after-market work to reliably function (kudos to Steve). I wish I could convince the powers that be to go back to MP5's, but that's off-topic, and not going to happen anyway.
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That looks like a soup sandwich, son!
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Originally Posted By bolster:
Originally Posted By 1bayouboy:
If the 9mm is FA I think the longer ramp lessens the beating on the autosear or DIAS as the hammer is bit slower when the sear catches it......depending on where it's caught as it begins to follow the bolt....I'm not sure if the contact poin torns the bolt corner before it's caught or not.....??? From my experience with the Colt SMG, the stress is mostly on the hammer. I've seen broken hammer pins several times. In fact, today one broke on me in semi-auto fire and doubled a couple of times. These rifles are factory, with lots of rounds through them, and (being factory) they don't have any ramping. Never seen any trouble with the auto-sear, but I guess it's a possibility. I honestly don't like the SMG, as it seems insane that the all-mighty Colt needs after-market work to reliably function (kudos to Steve). I wish I could convince the powers that be to go back to MP5's, but that's off-topic, and not going to happen anyway. Nothing wrong with an MP5 
I crunched the numbers and IIRC, ramping reduced the shear stress on the hammer pin by 12%. |
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If one accepts that Ken Elmore at SAWLESALES was the first to perform and offer a ramped bolt mod and believes the information on his website about his history and working relationship with Colt (it's quite impressive to me - click here to see for yourself), it seems like it would be a no brainer for Colt to incorporate a product improvement like this into their product. Afterall, it has the potential to dramatically improve the performance, reliability, and longevity of their product, and it is just one additional manufacturing step in the bolt making process for them that should have a negligible impact from a cost standpoint if done during the normal manufacture of their bolts.
Any thoughts on why Colt hasn't incorporated a ramped bolt into their 9mm rifles? |
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Originally Posted By kevins_garage:
If one accepts that Ken Elmore at SAWLESALES was the first to perform and offer a ramped bolt mod and believes the information on his website about his history and working relationship with Colt (it's quite impressive to me - click here to see for yourself), it seems like it would be a no brainer for Colt to incorporate a product improvement like this into their product. Afterall, it has the potential to dramatically improve the performance, reliability, and longevity of their product, and it is just one additional manufacturing step in the bolt making process for them that should have a negligible impact from a cost standpoint if done during the normal manufacture of their bolts. Any thoughts on why Colt hasn't incorporated a ramped bolt into their 9mm rifles? Because they offer (or used to offer) a tougher SS replacement hammer pin. No one ever accused Colt of taking the easy road. Look at the pinned in sear block that made the receiver look like the ugly girl on prom night. Now they leave an un-machined portion in place. Give'em another 5 years, they'll get it. Pg. 122 BRII explains it. Pg. 254 of the BRII you can see a 9mm Sporter witht the optional SS pin. |
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Originally Posted By RyanHass:
Originally Posted By kevins_garage:
If one accepts that Ken Elmore at SAWLESALES was the first to perform and offer a ramped bolt mod and believes the information on his website about his history and working relationship with Colt (it's quite impressive to me - click here to see for yourself), it seems like it would be a no brainer for Colt to incorporate a product improvement like this into their product. Afterall, it has the potential to dramatically improve the performance, reliability, and longevity of their product, and it is just one additional manufacturing step in the bolt making process for them that should have a negligible impact from a cost standpoint if done during the normal manufacture of their bolts. Any thoughts on why Colt hasn't incorporated a ramped bolt into their 9mm rifles? Because they offer (or used to offer) a tougher SS replacement hammer pin. No one ever accused Colt of taking the easy road. Look at the pinned in sear block that made the receiver look like the ugly girl on prom night. Now they leave an un-machined portion in place. Give'em another 5 years, they'll get it. Pg. 122 BRII explains it. Pg. 254 of the BRII you can see a 9mm Sporter witht the optional SS pin. I understand the logic everyone here is applying as to why they believe a ramped bolt is necessary (smoother operation, less wear on $20K registered receivers, yadda yadda). I just think it is remiss for a manufacturer like Colt to seemingly not "get it" within the last 10-15+ years and simply institute the "upgrade" themselves. It just seems unusual for any manufacturer, of firearms or any other product, to essentially ignore such an obvious safety improvement. If you look at it from a worst case scenario concerning safety, a hammer pin that breaks while the user is in the middle of a "situation", could potentially result in the user holding a firearm that has been rendered inoperable. The other side of me though says - so, if a SS pin is all it really takes to address this issue, why spend upwards of $100, $200, or even $300 making mods that a few dollar SS pin will resolve or that the uber expensive $25 KNS anti-rotation pins will also resolve (afterall, they are heavy duty SS pins also and they do not rotate so they will not wear the receiver)? I question this, because of the blowback nature of the 9mm AR. It seems to me as though the amount of resistance on the hammer helps to keep the action from opening so quickly after firing. Ramping reduces that resistance and makes it easier for the bolt to start moving back after firing. For a suppressed application, that seems to me like it would be counterproductive as it allows more gases to escape more quickly and get blown back at the shooters face. To correct that issue, it seems necessary to add more weight to the bolt and/or use a heavier buffer to try to make the bolt heavier and harder to move - like it was in the first place before the ramping. Same goes for FA - the ramping increases the rate of fire because the action is "smoother" (i.e. easier), so it is also necessary/recommended to add weight to slow the rate of fire back down. Again, I understand things from everyone here's perspective, it just seems to me that the solution (ramping and extra weight) is almost overkill to solve a simple problem like a broken pin. Especially for the vast majority of users that are firing semi only and/or suppressed, but not FA. I kind of see it as akin to recommending to someone that they replace the entire door on their car because they have a door ding, rather than suggesting that they just get the door ding repaired. Simplistic comparison I know - it is not meant to be an apples to apples comparison to this situation. I'm not saying ramping is completely unnecessary, I'm just wondering if it really provides significant benefits over a more simple and less costly solution, like KNS pins, as far as reliability and longevity are concerned. |
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Originally Posted By kevins_garage:
Originally Posted By RyanHass:
Originally Posted By kevins_garage:
If one accepts that Ken Elmore at SAWLESALES was the first to perform and offer a ramped bolt mod and believes the information on his website about his history and working relationship with Colt (it's quite impressive to me - click here to see for yourself), it seems like it would be a no brainer for Colt to incorporate a product improvement like this into their product. Afterall, it has the potential to dramatically improve the performance, reliability, and longevity of their product, and it is just one additional manufacturing step in the bolt making process for them that should have a negligible impact from a cost standpoint if done during the normal manufacture of their bolts. Any thoughts on why Colt hasn't incorporated a ramped bolt into their 9mm rifles? Because they offer (or used to offer) a tougher SS replacement hammer pin. No one ever accused Colt of taking the easy road. Look at the pinned in sear block that made the receiver look like the ugly girl on prom night. Now they leave an un-machined portion in place. Give'em another 5 years, they'll get it. Pg. 122 BRII explains it. Pg. 254 of the BRII you can see a 9mm Sporter witht the optional SS pin. I understand the logic everyone here is applying as to why they believe a ramped bolt is necessary (smoother operation, less wear on $20K registered receivers, yadda yadda). I just think it is remiss for a manufacturer like Colt to seemingly not "get it" within the last 10-15+ years and simply institute the "upgrade" themselves. It just seems unusual for any manufacturer, of firearms or any other product, to essentially ignore such an obvious safety improvement. If you look at it from a worst case scenario concerning safety, a hammer pin that breaks while the user is in the middle of a "situation", could potentially result in the user holding a firearm that has been rendered inoperable. The other side of me though says - so, if a SS pin is all it really takes to address this issue, why spend upwards of $100, $200, or even $300 making mods that a few dollar SS pin will resolve or that the uber expensive $25 KNS anti-rotation pins will also resolve (afterall, they are heavy duty SS pins also and they do not rotate so they will not wear the receiver)? I question this, because of the blowback nature of the 9mm AR. It seems to me as though the amount of resistance on the hammer helps to keep the action from opening so quickly after firing. Ramping reduces that resistance and makes it easier for the bolt to start moving back after firing. For a suppressed application, that seems to me like it would be counterproductive as it allows more gases to escape more quickly and get blown back at the shooters face. To correct that issue, it seems necessary to add more weight to the bolt and/or use a heavier buffer to try to make the bolt heavier and harder to move - like it was in the first place before the ramping. Same goes for FA - the ramping increases the rate of fire because the action is "smoother" (i.e. easier), so it is also necessary/recommended to add weight to slow the rate of fire back down. Again, I understand things from everyone here's perspective, it just seems to me that the solution (ramping and extra weight) is almost overkill to solve a simple problem like a broken pin. Especially for the vast majority of users that are firing semi only and/or suppressed, but not FA. I kind of see it as akin to recommending to someone that they replace the entire door on their car because they have a door ding, rather than suggesting that they just get the door ding repaired. Simplistic comparison I know - it is not meant to be an apples to apples comparison to this situation. I'm not saying ramping is completely unnecessary, I'm just wondering if it really provides significant benefits over a more simple and less costly solution, like KNS pins, as far as reliability and longevity are concerned. You nailed Colts position exactly. FA ROF was too high so they added the steel weight. Hammer pins still broke so they offered SS replacements. (Edited for clarification.) SA hammer pin breakage was not a concern to them. So thoretically if the SS pin solves the FA 12% issue and you fire a SA 12% fewer rounds (with a standard pin) there should be no problems. Yes, in (both a FA/SA) configuration KNS NR pins would suffice for reliability and longevity with a non ramped bolt. I would also take the "cheap insurance" that ramping provides for an expensive registered lower. |
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Originally Posted By RyanHass:
You nailed Colts position exactly. FA ROF was too high so they added the steel weight. Hammer pins still broke so they offered SS replacements. SA hammer pin breakage was not a concern to them. So thoretically if the SS pin solves the FA 12% issue and you fire a SA 12% fewer rounds there should be no problems. Yes, in a SA configuration KNS NR pins would suffice for reliability and longevity with a non ramped bolt. So for SA applications, ramping is truly not necessary, and a SS hammer pin or KNS SS anti-rotation pins are a more than satisfactory, and much cheaper, alternative. In other words - some people may be better off spending their money on mags and ammo. 
In FA applications, are you inferring that SS pins (or KNS SS anti-rotation pins) are not enough to resolve the potential hammer pin breakage and hole wear issue, and ramping is actually necessary? Or, are we essentially right back to the argument that ramping doesn't really provide any significant benefit over a SS hammer pin or KNS pins from a longevity or reliability standpoint, but it also doesn't hurt either. So, if one has a $20K registered receiver, it's $2-300 of "cheap insurance" at least, so just ramp your bolt anyway? |
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Originally Posted By RyanHass:
(Edited for clarification.) SA hammer pin breakage was not a concern to them. So thoretically if the SS pin solves the FA 12% issue and you fire a SA 12% fewer rounds (with a standard pin) there should be no problems. Yes, in (both a FA/SA) configuration KNS NR pins would suffice for reliability and longevity with a non ramped bolt. I would also take the "cheap insurance" that ramping provides for an expensive registered lower. I'm still not clear on the 12% issue. Does that have to do with the 12% sheer stress analysis you mentioned doing in a previous post, or does it have more to do with firing 12% less rounds as you allude to above? Or is that something entirely different from BRII or elsewhere? |
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Originally Posted By kevins_garage:
Originally Posted By RyanHass:
(Edited for clarification.) SA hammer pin breakage was not a concern to them. So thoretically if the SS pin solves the FA 12% issue and you fire a SA 12% fewer rounds (with a standard pin) there should be no problems. Yes, in (both a FA/SA) configuration KNS NR pins would suffice for reliability and longevity with a non ramped bolt. I would also take the "cheap insurance" that ramping provides for an expensive registered lower. I'm still not clear on the 12% issue. Does that have to do with the 12% sheer stress analysis you mentioned doing in a previous post, or does it have more to do with firing 12% less rounds as you allude to above? Or is that something entirely different from BRII or elsewhere? The "12% issue" refers to the stress reduction calcs for ramping. Which Colt overcame by increasing pin strength and not ramping. The 12% less rounds "theory" was just stating that if the SS pin in FA lasts forever, subtract 12% from forever and thats how long a regular pin should last in SA. Theory only.
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Originally Posted By RyanHass:
Originally Posted By kevins_garage:
Originally Posted By RyanHass:
(Edited for clarification.) SA hammer pin breakage was not a concern to them. So thoretically if the SS pin solves the FA 12% issue and you fire a SA 12% fewer rounds (with a standard pin) there should be no problems. Yes, in (both a FA/SA) configuration KNS NR pins would suffice for reliability and longevity with a non ramped bolt. I would also take the "cheap insurance" that ramping provides for an expensive registered lower. I'm still not clear on the 12% issue. Does that have to do with the 12% sheer stress analysis you mentioned doing in a previous post, or does it have more to do with firing 12% less rounds as you allude to above? Or is that something entirely different from BRII or elsewhere? The "12% issue" refers to the stress reduction calcs for ramping. Which Colt overcame by increasing pin strength and not ramping. The 12% less rounds "theory" was just stating that if the SS pin in FA lasts forever, subtract 12% from forever and thats how long a regular pin should last in SA. Theory only. I will try to ask our armorers about the SS pins. Some of our guns have them and many do not. I haven't seen an SS pin break, but I would be they still will. |
That looks like a soup sandwich, son!
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Originally Posted By bolster:
Just as a follow-up: I spoke with our armorers, and the Colt SMG still breaks the SS hammer pins, just a little less often. Seems like that could be a potentially very dangerous situation for LE/Mil if their gun were to go down in the middle of a "situation" - Have your armorers received any direction from Colt on how to remedy the situation when their "fix" still fails? What I am getting at, is whether or not Colt has come back and said ramping is the only other fix and provided any documentation on what they consider the proper ramp or other details, or if they are just burying their head in the sand because the problem is so infrequent. |
| This may be a dupe but I didn't see it posted, www.m60joe.com does bolt ramping as well. He did a bolt for me a few years back and it made a hell of a difference in how much smoother my fullauto 9mm ran. For $70 (that includes return shipping) it was money well spent. |
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Originally Posted By kevins_garage:
Originally Posted By bolster:
Just as a follow-up: I spoke with our armorers, and the Colt SMG still breaks the SS hammer pins, just a little less often. Seems like that could be a potentially very dangerous situation for LE/Mil if their gun were to go down in the middle of a "situation" - Have your armorers received any direction from Colt on how to remedy the situation when their "fix" still fails? What I am getting at, is whether or not Colt has come back and said ramping is the only other fix and provided any documentation on what they consider the proper ramp or other details, or if they are just burying their head in the sand because the problem is so infrequent. I absolutely hate the Colt SMG. It is not 1/3 the gun the MP5 is, if you want to limit yourself to 9mm. I'd rather have a 10.5" 5.56 Commando, but that's not my decision to make. Our SMG's see a lot of use because they are trained with. The SMG's most commonly used for "real" work see a lot less rounds, so they just bear with the broken hammer pins that happen "from time to time". Colt just recommends the SS pins. I get passed this info 3rd hand, so I can't say exactly what Colt's position is, other than that they continue to produce the same crap setup. |
That looks like a soup sandwich, son!
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Originally Posted By AZ_Gun_Nut:
This may be a dupe but I didn't see it posted, www.m60joe.com does bolt ramping as well. He did a bolt for me a few years back and it made a hell of a difference in how much smoother my fullauto 9mm ran. For $70 (that includes return shipping) it was money well spent. What brand of bolt? Colt, Rock River, other? |
Originally Posted By Ameshawki:
If you don't have 4150 you're not mil spec. And we all know that if you ain't mil spec, you ain't $#!+ Or so they say.
If you don't have 4150 you're not mil spec. And we all know that if you ain't mil spec, you ain't $#!+ Or so they say.
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No one's yet mentioned the newly-designed CMMG 9mm bolt that incorporates ramping in the design?
I see from a few posts that they have typical growing pains with a new product (firing pin protrusion issues, a broken firing pin, rough finish on the exterior, etc.), but these issues may have been resolved already for all I know. No one ever posts back to say how awesome something works. You only hear on the news about the trains that don't get there, you know? |
Earthling by birth... American by the grace of God.
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Originally Posted By TheMocoMan:
Originally Posted By AZ_Gun_Nut:
This may be a dupe but I didn't see it posted, www.m60joe.com does bolt ramping as well. He did a bolt for me a few years back and it made a hell of a difference in how much smoother my fullauto 9mm ran. For $70 (that includes return shipping) it was money well spent. What brand of bolt? Colt, Rock River, other? Rock River, but as far as I know they're machined identical to factory Colts. Had my second one (Rock River) done by RSE in Mesa, AZ. |
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Back on the site after being down a while......I have to agree with the comments on the MP5.
The Colt 9mm SMG system rather sucks if you ask me...being straight blowback and needing the heavy bolt, the feed ramp length is too long I think....and the double feed column magzine is a nightmare if you drop it... ....IMO... 
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I guess Colt finally has gotten it. My new 2/10 production AR6450 uses small SS pins, Ramped, Radiused & Weighted bolt along with a M16 hammer.
When I called Colt about the un-clipped M16 hammer they said it's used to enhance realiabilty and was legal to use. They must have done something right, I shot 500 rounds through it this weekend without a problem. |
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Originally Posted By JMR:
I guess Colt finally has gotten it. My new 2/10 production AR6450 uses small SS pins, Ramped, Radiused & Weighted bolt along with a M16 hammer. When I called Colt about the un-clipped M16 hammer they said it's used to enhance realiabilty and was legal to use. They must have done something right, I shot 500 rounds through it this weekend without a problem. Finally. I'm confused about the M16 hammer. Are you saying it's a non-notched hammer, or a hammer with a tail on it for the auto-sear? I was looking over a couple of our SMG's the other day and realized (this is how old they are now) that two of them had old SP1-style lowers without the reinforcment in the receiver extension area. |
My car is piston-driven because it won't work with DI.
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Originally Posted By JMR:
I guess Colt finally has gotten it. My new 2/10 production AR6450 uses small SS pins, Ramped, Radiused & Weighted bolt along with a M16 hammer. When I called Colt about the un-clipped M16 hammer they said it's used to enhance realiabilty and was legal to use. They must have done something right, I shot 500 rounds through it this weekend without a problem. I remember your post!! I was admiring your pics, not really reading, just looking at the porn (addictive habit), and I did a double take. Very interesting. Edit, hope you don't mind, I found your post and here are the pics you posted: 
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Vote for change in 2012
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Finally. I'm confused about the M16 hammer. Are you saying it's a non-notched hammer, or a hammer with a tail on it for the auto-sear? M16 hammer with tail. I called Colt twice on that one and they said it's legal to use since their lower blocks a auto sear. |
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Originally Posted By JMR:
Finally. I'm confused about the M16 hammer. Are you saying it's a non-notched hammer, or a hammer with a tail on it for the auto-sear? M16 hammer with tail. I called Colt twice on that one and they said it's legal to use since their lower blocks a auto sear. I learn something new every day. You should have a pretty reliable setup with the stainless pins and the ramped bolt. |
My car is piston-driven because it won't work with DI.
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Originally Posted By JMR:
I guess Colt finally has gotten it. My new 2/10 production AR6450 uses small SS pins, Ramped, Radiused & Weighted bolt along with a M16 hammer. When I called Colt about the un-clipped M16 hammer they said it's used to enhance realiabilty and was legal to use. They must have done something right, I shot 500 rounds through it this weekend without a problem. I purchased my Colt 6450 in January of this year, but doesn't have the new improvements like yours has. I wonder if thay will make those improvements to mine if i send it in for warranty work. It gave me nothing but problems yesterday when i took it out for the first time to shoot. |
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ok, sorry to resurrect this one and at the risk of sounding like a complete tool - if I run an RRA semi-auto 9mm hammer, should I ramp or not?
Reading the threads, there is nobody clearly answering that question, despite it being asked a couple times. I *think* that you aren't supposed to ramp a bolt with a 9mm semi hammer, but that some guys are saying it's better to ramp and switch to a DPMS 5.56 hammer because it's smoother shooting and lower stress - is that right? |
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Originally Posted By Claven2:
ok, sorry to resurrect this one and at the risk of sounding like a complete tool - if I run an RRA semi-auto 9mm hammer, should I ramp or not? Reading the threads, there is nobody clearly answering that question, despite it being asked a couple times. I *think* that you aren't supposed to ramp a bolt with a 9mm semi hammer, but that some guys are saying it's better to ramp and switch to a DPMS 5.56 hammer because it's smoother shooting and lower stress - is that right? RRA 9mm hammer = do not ramp your bolt. Only ramp your bolt when using a DPMS or Modded m16 hammer.
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(illegible)
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Thanks for the clarification!
So is there any advantage to switching to a DPMS hammer and getting the bolt ramped? I'm using a dedicated 9mm lower and don't switch uppers, it's also a semi-gun with no can. 10.5" SBR Model One Sales upper, RRA heavy 9mm buffer with a Spikes spacer to limit travel to just past the bolt stop. Hammer is a RRA 9mm hammer and the LPK is Armalite with DPMS ambi-selector. Bolt came with the upper, but I believe it is RRA with weight in the back. |
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I have the same question. Anyone have the answer?
Originally Posted By Claven2:
Thanks for the clarification! So is there any advantage to switching to a DPMS hammer and getting the bolt ramped? I'm using a dedicated 9mm lower and don't switch uppers, it's also a semi-gun with no can. 10.5" SBR Model One Sales upper, RRA heavy 9mm buffer with a Spikes spacer to limit travel to just past the bolt stop. Hammer is a RRA 9mm hammer and the LPK is Armalite with DPMS ambi-selector. Bolt came with the upper, but I believe it is RRA with weight in the back. |
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Originally Posted By RyanHass:
Originally Posted By kevins_garage:
If one accepts that Ken Elmore at SAWLESALES was the first to perform and offer a ramped bolt mod and believes the information on his website about his history and working relationship with Colt (it's quite impressive to me - click here to see for yourself), it seems like it would be a no brainer for Colt to incorporate a product improvement like this into their product. Afterall, it has the potential to dramatically improve the performance, reliability, and longevity of their product, and it is just one additional manufacturing step in the bolt making process for them that should have a negligible impact from a cost standpoint if done during the normal manufacture of their bolts. Any thoughts on why Colt hasn't incorporated a ramped bolt into their 9mm rifles? Because they offer (or used to offer) a tougher SS replacement hammer pin. No one ever accused Colt of taking the easy road. Look at the pinned in sear block that made the receiver look like the ugly girl on prom night. Now they leave an un-machined portion in place. Give'em another 5 years, they'll get it. Pg. 122 BRII explains it. Pg. 254 of the BRII you can see a 9mm Sporter witht the optional SS pin. You bring up some interesting points, especially as I research to get my own 9mm set-up put together. One thing, the lock up and blow back consideration. You really can't do much to delay the start of the motion in an unlocked breech, it starts almost immediately..action/reaction ya know. You CAN affect the speed/acceleration of the opening...and yes the weight of the bolt and buffer, and the spring tension as well as the hammer reset force will all retard opening of the bolt. However, would you rather retard that motion with weight and spring forces on the buffer, or by applying more of that shock force to the hammer pins? I would rather run the weight and a stronger buffer spring than to beat up my hammer pins. Also, though it seems contradictory, once the motion has been imparted on the hammer, which is the moment of highest shock delivery, all further motion is less stressful, so the ramp angle is much less important to reducing stress than the actual depth of its inception. |
Can Anyone tell me if this bolt is ramped. It looks ramped to me but the guy I bought it from said he didn't send it to anyone to get it done. I am planning on running it on my m16 when the f4 goes through. I am not sure about length and angle meaurements. required for the ramp. I have heard to many different thing on this topic. I guess I can just send it to adco or m60joe and get them to check it.
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Originally Posted By rgvwheeler:
Can Anyone tell me if this bolt is ramped. Yes, it is ramped... plug it in and run with it. Kinda mirror topic "HERE" |
| WOW.. I wish I had found this thread earlier.. I missed the entire "pistol caliber" section.. I'm trying to get a better trigger and ran into this issue. I need to pull the bolt and take another look as well as send the link to my GS.. My 6450 was "made" in 10/10.. I'll post a pic of the bolt later.. Ron |
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Well it appears that my 10/10 manufactured 6450 does in fact have a ramped bolt. So my next question is Will the CMC trigger listed here work? Ron
Current Bolt http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii309/Hohopelli/DSC07817.jpg The trigger I want to use http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii309/Hohopelli/CMCTrigger.jpg |
| Is there any negative issue with a ramped bolt and using a suppressor? I have toyed with the idea of ramping my bolt since I put my 9mm AR together in '07, but I am adding a suppressor and I don't want to screw something up that functions correctly as it is. |
Better to have and not need than need and not have
Two out of three ain't bad, especially when one of 'em is a head shot.
كافر
Two out of three ain't bad, especially when one of 'em is a head shot.
كافر
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Originally Posted By BuddyLeeManofAction:
I have the same question. Anyone have the answer? Originally Posted By Claven2:
Thanks for the clarification! So is there any advantage to switching to a DPMS hammer and getting the bolt ramped? I'm using a dedicated 9mm lower and don't switch uppers, it's also a semi-gun with no can. 10.5" SBR Model One Sales upper, RRA heavy 9mm buffer with a Spikes spacer to limit travel to just past the bolt stop. Hammer is a RRA 9mm hammer and the LPK is Armalite with DPMS ambi-selector. Bolt came with the upper, but I believe it is RRA with weight in the back. +1 |
"Huntin' Ewoks on Endor"
"Yes we have weapons. No you may not wand us."
"...Now get off the shed!"
'03' FFL, CCW Permit Holder & NRA Member
"Yes we have weapons. No you may not wand us."
"...Now get off the shed!"
'03' FFL, CCW Permit Holder & NRA Member
Comments on Picture of my Ramped 9mm Bolt -- by ADCO (Page 2 of 3)
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