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Posted: 12/10/2007 10:16:21 PM EDT
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An old round..... and I'm sure the ballistics would be repeating or might be worse then what's available out there. The head space is the same as an 30-06 (45 ACP)- since you can make 44 Auto Mag from 30-06/308 cases. And from what I've read, the 450 Bushmaster is based on a 45 Win Mag case or a 280 Winchester (and their rims are VERY close in size). For the sake of discussion, would a 44 Auto mag cycle gas system? I know the Auto Mag pistol was gas. I mean, what bolts are available for the AR15 now: standard 223/5.56 7.62x39 size (.445) 6.8 SPC ( about .42, says poster) 450 Bushmaster (.473- .480) 50 AE/440 Corbon (custom widening) |
Dont you mean Bolt Face and not headspace? Mike |
That should definitely be bolt face. Like all rimless auto pistol cases, the .44 Auto Mag headspaces on the mouth of the case. BTW, I had a .44 Auto Mag (aah, the follies of youth) and I don't remember it being gas operated. I believe the Wildey pistol, which came along later, may have been. You also face the issue of getting a .430 barrel for an AR, which can be an issue. |
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It would make a nice little hunting rifle if there is a magazine available for the 44 Auto Mag that would work in an AR. Reloading dies are available -- only problem I see is reaming the inside of the shortened brass to accept the .429" bullet so the case doesn't have a nasty bulge when the bullet is seated. Do any of you guys know of a workable magazine? |
| Tromix built one and used to offer them (AR uppers, that is). Yes, they are gas operated. Yes, barrels can be made. The BOLT FACE is the same as the .458 SOCOM and the .450 Bushmaster (and 308, 45 ACP, 30-06). The biggest challenge is getting the magazines to work, as that round is just about too small to fit a standard AR mag. Starline carries ready made brass. I am considering getting Tromix's tooling and building one for the fun of it. It might be worth looking at the 30 Carbine magazines to see how those will take these rounds ... I have the blank in stock ... |
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Ah........ so it's been done, but had issues. I thought that Tromix use to make a 44 Mag upper, but the mags/feeding was the issue again. The 44 Auto Mag must have been a short lived project (early on). Well, at least on the up side- we all have different bolt faces to work with now. Hey Marty, Any update on the PPSh mag block (or did I miss the update on that thread?) |
Nothing the .44 AMP can do that you can't do with the .45 Win Mag. And, the brass has to be easier to come by. |
| I would agree with the 30 carbine mag. I am also looking at adapting the 30 carbine mag for the 357 auto mag. Almost all pistol bullets will fit, just not many rifle bullets. The 45 winchester mag is a little shorter which might help, but midway usually has both types of brass in stock. |
Wow...only 5. I wanted one, but then he 'closed' down business. In between being closed and reopening, I ended up talking him into making a 440 Corbon upper.....  Haven't really played w/it yet, since TIME is a problem. Got 200 rounds loaded.... just need to go play (granted, I think I have to go pull about 30 of them, since I might have gotten them too hot....... )
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I originally ordered the 44 automag upper from Tromix. When it arrived, the chamber was terrible, the barrel canted to the left about 2 or 3 degrees from the centerline of the upper, so that iron sights could not be made to match up, let alone shoot to the scout scope I had bought for the upper. It also would not feed from the Grizzly Win Mag Magazine welded into the ar-15 mag body being used as a carrier. Evidently the GWM body had been welded too low into the mag body, so the rounds slammed into the feed ramp and stopped the bolt. In fairness, Tromix gave me my money back without quibble. I would pay good money for a smith that would do a good job on a M-1 carbine conversion in 44AMP or .45 Win Mag. Having more money than brains, I would pay development costs (Chambering reamers, custom barrel from Krieger, etc). The 44 AMP has the pressure to function the m-1's gas system and the little carbine would be a good version of the "Thumper" that Cooper envisioned. What a nice little monster it would be with the Util-Mak Scout handguard replacement. It would weigh as much as a 1984 lever carbine, be semi-auto, and deliver a 240 grain bullet at 1900fps. Cor-bon, Wildley, and several other makers have off the shelf factory loads for 44AMP. [email protected] |
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I worked on one Tromix 44 Mag upper and it was a bear, never did get it work properly, the customer in the end accepted the offer to make it into a .440 CorBon. Now, I forgot the M1 Carbine mags take the 44 AMP so well, but let's just say, wait a few weeks (2 to 3), I might have some news ... 
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Why did I start reading this thread?  I didn't need any more ideas for custom barrels to order. ETA: .45acp rounds fit the 6.8SPC AR mag better than the 5.56 AR mag, so I suspect any other round with a similar casehead dimension would also fit better in a 6.8SPC mag. |
Not in the M1 Carb magazine, but one that might have some of you running to the gear locker, grabbing one and going "Holy Smokes!"  Need to see how they stack, but feeding thus far seems to be quite smooth, at least when stripping the dummy by hand. As to 45 Win Mag v. 44 Auto Mag, I am going with 44 AMP right now because a) I got a 44 cal blank free from Dan Wesson folks and b) I got the 44 AMP reamer on loan from Tromix ... but if 44 AMP works, then 45 Win Mag is not far behind ... |
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After reading this thread, and developing a touch of insomnia, I find myself pondering a few questions. If .308Win brass is cut and renecked to a case length of about 1.460" (should allow crimping in the cannelure of Win 147gr FMJBT .308, with a COAL of 2.260"), does it come close to duplicating an existing cartridge? Would it be possible to reneck the shortened brass with a .308Win neck sizing die, or would I have to order a custom die for 7.62JPN? Would this cartridge, using projectiles from 110gr to 150gr, be worth the trouble of having a custom AR barrel made and buying the die to reneck the brass? Or should I have just gone back to bed? ETA: .30HRT would be around .050" smaller in case diameter, but would probably more than make up for the difference with the longer case length. Maybe bump the case length of 7.62JPN up to around 1.600"... ETA2: Instead of a custom die, I could try trimming some of the base off a .308Win die. The taper of the cartridge would result in the reformed brass being slightly smaller in diameter near the casehead, but I don't think it would be enough to make much of a difference. As a bonus, the barrel's chamber could be cut with a regular .308Win reamer. I think I've got another project for this weekend. Marty, If I supply a dummy round of 7.62JPN, would that be enough dimensional info for you to make a 7.62JPN barrel for an AR? Time to go to bed (way past time, actually)... |
I thought there would probably be something fairly close to what I was thinking about. My book doesn't have data for 30 BR, but a quick google came up with 30 BR being formed by necking up 6mm BR or 7mm BR, which I do have data for. Does 30 BR have the same case length of 1.520" and 30 degree shoulder? A quick check of Midway's website shows that 7mm BR brass costs nearly twice as much as .308Win brass. If I can manage to get the shortened .308Win brass to work with a 1.600" case length, and a neck length a little shorter than .308Win (but would that kill the advantage of being able to use a standard .308Win chamber reamer?), I might be able to get slightly more case volume than the 30 BR. Just thought to check Quickload, and it does have data for 30 BR. I'll have to research it more, after work. ETA: Sorry for wandering off topic. I started a new thread (Wildcat similar to 30 BR) in the variants forum. |
Have you heard of LeMag? I have two of his .45 WinMag M-1 carbine conversions. |
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