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Posted: 3/14/2006 1:56:46 PM EDT
I have a DPMS .22 upper. Has anyone run a Jewell or other light trigger with their dedicated upper? The quality of what I got from DPMS has so far left a lot to be desired. Mag that didn't fit the magwell without the help of a rasp, loose float tube, and worst of all, not the accuracy that most folks get. My 10-22 deluxe w/ heavy barrel and no trigger work shoots rings around it. Best group so far is maybe half an inch at 25 yards. I want a trigger that will pull double duty on this upper and the 5.56 upper. I am leaning towards a single stage, probably Jard. Any help would be appreciated.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 3:43:31 PM EDT
I used to have a heavy barrel dpms upper. Trust me,the jewell will not run the thing at all. Won't work with a ceiner at all either.
I have had decent luck with a RRNM with the supplied springs,but when I tried some lighter (Jard?) it gave up the gost.
My DPMS seemed to have some crazy accuracy potential but the lack of a true match grade trigger held me back.
If I found out there was a great trigger out there I would buy another Dpms, (sold of mine to a buddy).
For the time being I am real happy playing with my Ceiner with a RRNM trigger.

Keep us posted if you or anyone finds something that will run a rimfire upper.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 6:35:23 PM EDT
Yeah, I will keep everyone posted if I find something that works. I would've sworn I had a bad scope the first time I took it out as both were new. But the same scope on the 10/22 shoots one hole @ 25 with 10 year old Winchester Wildcat.

I don't know if this bothers anybody else, but the AR seems to be a cluster to me when I try to shoot it from the bench. I end up having it sit much higher than I am normally comfortable with due to the stock design. Since I'm using range provided sandbags in the rear, I have to try and wrap my arm around them to get to the trigger.

Even though the trigger seems to be not too terribly heavy on the AR, it is heavier than I'd like it to be. Perhaps mine is something like yours was accuracy-wise. It will sometimes knot 3 shots but usually ends up with a flyer or two. I believe the trigger could definitely be the key, but am worried about buying something that won't function with the upper. I am leaning towards something like a 3 lb. Jard. You would think I wasn't the first person trying this!!!

I was at Wally World tonight checking out the local stock. They have some fairly cheap Federal and CCI Mini-Mags that I will probably end up trying as well. It's almost funny because this thing doesn't seem to differentiate at all between the T22 standard velocity and the old hi vel stuff I have. When I get a new firing pin for my 40X rimfire, I'll buy some Eley and really try to wring them all out and see if it makes a difference. I may still have some Fiocchi, the AR seemed to actually prefer it on the maiden trip to the range. Of course, it wasn't anything to brag about either.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 6:47:46 PM EDT
Your DPMS should easily hold a half inch at 25 or under an inch at 50 when you find the ammo it likes. The trigger will not make the gun one bit more accurate, but will of course enhance your ability to shoot it. Best group from mine so far was 5/8" at 50 yards, and that's with a GI trigger and a 4x airgun scope.

Mine likes Winchester Dynapoints and CCI Minimags. Don't expect ANY kind of accuracy from the cheap Federal Walmart Bulks. I've bench tested them in over 20 rifles and they came out in last place in almost all of them. They're reliable, though. But they normally shoot about 5/8-3/4" groups at 25 yards. Rare is the gun that will put them in a half inch at 25.

The Walmart Winchester Xperts are much more accurate, if your gun will feed and function on them--not all do. Cheap, too. Some have reported good results from Remington Golden Bullets. I just bought a brick but haven't had a chance to try them yet. Will post here on how they shoot in the DPMS as soon as I do. Oh, BTW, my DPMS is the M4 model, not one of the heavy barrel or match guns.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 7:49:50 PM EDT
I guess I should've defined what I meant by accuracy in regards to the trigger. I think I would've been clearer had I said shootability. If it is easier for me to shoot, I can shoot it more accurately, but that is not to say that it makes the rifle more accurate. That's also what I mean about the ergonomics (IMO) of shooting it from the bench. It seems like I have to work harder to get this to shoot well. The 10/22, 40X, even the $69 Norinco JW15, seem to be easier to shoot from the bench due to the more conventional stock. I have no complaint with the AR platform for shooting from position. Currently the lower has an A2 stock but I'd prefer an A1 as I would like it to be shorter. I started off with a M4gery w/ telescoping stock, not the greatest for work off the bench. I'd like to shoot BR50 with it at my local club. Bet they've never seen an AR do that.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 12:47:36 PM EDT
I have posted this in other queries, but I will add it here.

I did have a JARD adjustable trigger that was pretty good. I finally stopped using it as the adjustment screw for removing the trigger kept loosening on my QCB lower with my 22 kits and my 5.56 barrels. It was plenty light for accuracy work. I did have the usual spring and reliability problems with my Ciener and M261 kits. I never tested the Jard with my dedicated Kuehl upper, but I would say that it was clean and crisp enough to not be the limiting accuracy factor. Just not what I wanted for a trigger to use with 5 or 6 barrels and 3 or 4 calibers.

I switched to a Geissele trigger a few months ago, just as I got my dedicated 22LR barrel for my QCB. The Geissele is absolutely fantastic for the AR. I picked up the National Match adjustable, and I can assure you that you can make it so light as to be almost too light. It also ignites the rims on the 22LR in the Ciener and M261 with no other modifications. I actually picked up a new Ciener to go with the upper, as my old unit had mods to the springs and firing pin. Nothing needed on the new one with the Geissele. I have not checked to see where the second stage is breaking weight wise, but it is very light. The Geissele will absolutely not hold back your groups.

With regrads to the other posts about bench shooting, my QCB with Vltor clubfoot works very well for bench shooting. With my scope mounted in Nightforce (Badger, I think) standard rings, my cheek sits very well on the battary compartment add ons to the stock. At the very worst, I could probably stand to raise my cheek a 1/8 or 1/16th of an inch to get a perfect cheek weld, but I can work with the system the way it is. I am also working with back up irons. If I dumped those, I could get any kind of cheek weld that I needed by choosing the right ring scope combination. You can go pretty low when you have the ability to collapse the stock some, to get the scope bell forward of the flat top rails, keeping the eye relief correct.

Craig
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 5:38:10 PM EDT
My experience with DPMS 22 upper and a RRA two stage trigger.
Broke the head off the firing pin two times at about 600 rounds, DPMS was great about replacing the pin and determined that the hammer angle was at fault, I switched back to a stock HTS and stopped having problems.

Link Posted: 3/17/2006 5:40:12 PM EDT
Thanks to everyone for the replies. After doing a little investigating I am changing my mind and going with the Geissele. The main reason is exactly what has been stated about the Jard. Single stages seem to loosen and require adjustment. That's fine if all I was doing was firing from the bench. My next large purchase is going to be a WOP or CLE space gun upper. I want this for the bench, an any/any prone match my club shoots, and since I can get them with sight bases, maybe high power.
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 6:13:51 AM EDT
I have a JP trigger which I had to hand fit and it works fine with my DPMS AP4 upper. It did make a difference with respect to accuracy but I must admit that I too couldn't get better than a 2-1/2" group at 50 yds with any ammo so I sent it back. They are in the process of trying to find new barrel that shoots better. As of yesterday they are still working on it which leads me to beleive they have already tried several barrels and its still not up to snuff. I must say that I do appreciate the effort they are going to in order to retify the problem.
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 5:16:51 PM EDT
+1 for RRA NM two stage being reliable w/Ceiner kits. Limits you to about a 4.5lb pull total but works well and breaks cleanly.

Good shooting,

-P
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