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Posted: 10/1/2002 4:20:30 AM EDT
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Hey guys. I need some help with a ciener conversion kit. The bolt on the kit will not close all of the way when chambering a new round. You have to push it forward to get it to lock. This happens about 90% of the time. Occasionally it will close all of the way. If you do not do this, the firing pin does not make contact with cartridge. Any idea's on what could be causing this? Any help would be appreciated. Thank you! Brad |
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Brad76, If this is a new Ciener unit are you using the Remington Golden Bullets? I believe they are shown as either high speed or high velocity. This is what Ciener recommends because they have a nice long round nose and enter the chamber easier. Some people have luck with other types of ammo right from the "Git-go" but it's best to stay with what the manufacturer recommends if you have feed problems. A new Ciener has a parkerized finish that will polish out after a while but in the meantime hose the unit down with CLP. If the Golden Bullets and CLP works ok stay with this for 500/1000 rounds (for me that's 2 days) to break the unit in. Clean the Ciener after you use it but don't go more than 500 rounds before cleaning. Later on down the road you can experiment with other ammo. |
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I assume it's going almost all the way closed, and just stopping at the end? If so, doesn't sound like a feed problem so I don't see where changing ammo will help. Possibly too strong an extractor spring? Or a weak recoil spring? More likely just not cycling quite fast enough, so make sure it's lubed really well until it wears in. Mine did that some on the first day, but not until it got dirty from the first hundred rounds or so. |
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Thanks guys. I 'll give some more info. I have had the kit for almost two years. It HAD worked fine up until about a month ago, when this would happen maybe once in every 50 rounds. Now it is happening 7 out of 10 rounds. I have tried 4 different kinds of ammo, to no avail. I compared it to my other Ciener Unit, and can not find any differences in it. It seems that the extension that fits into the bolt of the upper is very loose. I wonder if that could be causing some problems? I have cleaned and lubed it very carefully, and that did not help. I was wondering about the recoil spring. It has been used for two years, so maybe it has just worn out. Thanks for the help! Brad |
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Brad, I'm not sure what you mean by "extension that fits into the bolt" other than the spring guide that fits into the guide tube on top of the ciener bolt. If that's it than Mike_L may be right and the recoil spring may have gone south on you. That guide rod is held in place by the tension of the spring. If this is what you meant than try swapping the springs out with that other unit and try the unit again. If the other unit you have works ok maybe you can try swapping other parts 0ne-by-one to see what clears the problem if the spring swap doesn't clear the problem. |
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Mike_L is right...I meant the chamber adaptor. Sorry for the lack of proper terminology! So it may be the recoil spring? How much work is it to take the recoil spring off of a Ciener unit. Aside from cleaning, I have never disassembled one of the conversion units. I am hoping that is is just the recoil spring. I would like to get it up and running again. Thank you! Brad |
| Normally all you do is hold the Ciener unit in your right hand with the chamber adapter pointing away from you, slide the bolt back, spread the rails slightly with your left hand and remove that chamber adapter up front. Keep an eye on the bolt because it will now try to pop off the end of the rails. Slide the bolt all the way off and you will discover the spring guide and spring come right off. You can clean that tube that the spring and guide go into real easy now. I pulled my Ciener apart and the spring measures just a hair over 9" in length. I've got thousands of rounds through it so new springs may be longer but I really don't know. |
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Pops: Thank you for the instructions on taking the kit apart. I will do that this weekend and check the spring, and give it a good cleaning. Kurt: I will scrub out the chamber adaptor this weekend while I take it apart. While I have never intentionally dry fired the kit, there have been times when I have lost count of the amount of rounds in the mag, and pulled the trigger on an empty chamber. If there is a burr, how do I get rid of it? Again, thank you very much for your help! Brad |
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If your ceiner kit's got a firing pin peen, check your firing pin, as it's probably broken. The stock ceiner firing pin is secured by a cross pin, and shouldn't be able to travel forward far enough to peen the chamber lip, even if dry-firing, unless the cross pin has bent or the firing pin has broken in two. |
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I finally had a chance to work on the kit. I took it apart (Thank You Pops) and gave it a good cleaning and inspection. The firing pin is not broken, there were no burrs on the chamber adaptor, or anywhere for that matter. The recoil spring was almost 9 1/4" long. I scrubbed out the chamber, lubed it up with CLP, then reassembled. I took it to the range, and found that it was working much better. Out of 150 rounds fired I had 6 that did not chamber all of the way. I had about 10 stove pipes, and the remaining 134 worked good. When I got home I again took it apart and gave it another cleaning. Hopefully all will be better the next time I take it out. Thanks for all of your help. If you have any other thoughts or idea's, I would appreciate it. Brad |
| Keep shooting the heck out of it and clean it when you get home. The shooting will help smooth the rails and smooth the high points on the bolt and don't forget the CLP. Unlike me, Cieners seem to get better with age! I was wondering if you tried any of the Remington golden bullets? |
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Hi Pops. I used the 36 grain HP Remington Golden Bullet that Walmart sells in 550 round boxes. I plan on shooting this guy a lot. I think I have turned the corner. If I recall correctly, my other Ciener Kit took a while to break in, but now that it does work good, it will shoot anything I feed it. Thanks for your help. Brad |
hope you have a great time with the Ciener!
| A little off the subject, but not too far....I bought a Ciener, and was told by a USAF CATM Instructor that the unit causes unnatural barrel and chamber wear, due to the difference in the .22 and the .223. Is this correct? Will I end up ruining my barrel and possibly the majority of my upper from this thing? I love the idea of being able to shoot 10 times more for the same price, but not at the cost of my rifle! Help! |
You better not tell all the guys who shoot FA with them... Of course, maybe they do not care. I am of the opinion that the chamber wear is almost nothing and barrel wear is minor and nothing to worry about. |
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