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Posted: 5/20/2014 8:46:25 PM EDT
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I want to learn more about the AR15 platform as much as I can, and possibly built them from scratch down the road. But for now I want to build my first AR15 with complete upper and lower receivers. What is a great, reliable, and/or fair valued complete (multi-caliber) lower between $200-7$700 and/or complete upper receiver I can buy between $700-$1,000? The intended purpose for this rifle is SHTF, weekend plinking, and/or firearm specialty classes. Is it true that the upper receiver is much more important than the lower? I went to some gun stores and some of the clerks tell me that you can just get a decent lower (with a nice trigger), but invest more on your upper along with sights and accessories.
If anyone can point out the right direction by posting links on helping me gain more knowledge on this platform I would appreciate that. Thank you! Note: Correct me when I am wrong. I need to learn! :D |
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The money to be made in ARs seems to be in the trigger & the bbl. Uppers & lowers are just machined hunks of aluminum. Some manufacturers have this feature or that one, but I wouldn't pay extra for a special upper receiver on your 1st build. Pay for a good bbl, & a good trigger. You've got a good idea to buy two complete assemblies - you'll save the excise tax doing that, and a lot of headache.
All AR lowers will support uppers from .17" HMR to .458" SOCOM to .50" BMG - but not .308". No need for a "Multi-Cal" marked lower. If you should reconsider, it's quite easy to assemble a lower. Even Texas Aggies can do it. 
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The lower receiver houses the trigger, which is the most important component in that portion. Most stock triggers are just that, stock triggers nothing fancy, and people are either fine with them or upgrade anyway regardless of brand. Other than that the lower receiver just has to hold the buffer tube, grip, and have a decent magazine well. Very basic stuff. For the most part, a lower is a lower is a lower. Spikes makes a good quality lower at a reasonable price.
The upper receiver on the other hand, well think about it. This is where the bullet gets fed into the chamber (you want M4 feed ramps), is actually chambered, and travels through the barrel once it is fired. This also houses the bolt carrier group (BCG). All pretty important stuff. This is where your accuracy comes from. I wouldn't skimp on the complete upper personally. BCM makes good quality stuff at a decent price. You may be able to find a Daniel Defense complete upper for right around $1000, that would do you well. |
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Thank you for the knowledge drop!
@ Backbencer: Does all AR lower also support the 5.45x39 upper? I was also planning to save some dough by using either one or both 7N6 or Golden Tiger, Silver Bear (non corrosive ammo) for plinking and carbine classes. Some say that I shouldn't use an AR15 when I want to be shooting 5.45x39 since the platform already requires more maintenance, but I already have the habit of cleaning my AK-47 right after I am done shooting. As for the aftermarket trigger, should I get the Geissele or the 3MR trigger or recommend me one as good if not better? What types of tools do I need get to build a complete lower receiver? @ Victor9er: From some info I read, AR15 platforms are meant to be used with rifle length DIs, but if I were to be in an urban environment and a 100-200 yard engagements I should use mid-length, carbine or rifle length? What are your thoughts on DI and piston systems? I've read on both their pros and cons, but I want to know your thoughts and perhaps drop some stats and facts. |
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Lastly, what are the rules on buying a complete upper and complete lower? On gunbroker a LWRC complete lower can be shipper to your door because it is not considered as a rifle or a pistol. Anyone knows the laws and rules about this? Uh, no, it can't. It's shipped to your FFL. The lower is the "gun", even stripped. Only 80% lowers that have to be milled and drilled can be shipped direct. You can spend anywhere from $75 to several hundred on an improved AR trigger. Geisselle triggers are popular. Timney & CMC triggers are the simplest to install, as they come as a complete pack that drops in. You can assemble a lower w/ some vice grips, screwdrivers, pliers, a mallet, some electrical tape, & a razor blade. Serious people use roll pin punches instead of vice grips. Yes, you can use a 5.45x39mm upper on any AR lower, but doublecheck the price of 5.45 before you buy. BATFE suspended the import of the steel core military surplus b/c someone built a 5.45x39mm pistol. Rifle gas is used on bbls 18" & up, & some 16"s. Mid gas is used on bbls 16" - 18". Carbine is 14.5" to 16". Under 14.5" uses pistol or carbine gas. 14.5" & 14.7" bbls have to have their muzzle devices permanently attached - silver solder or pinned & welded, unless you want to pony up $200 for a Short Barrel Rifle stamp. To correctly position a bayonet, rifle gas on a 20", mid gas on a 16", and carbine gas on a 14.5/14.7" |
The gas system really has no affect on accuracy if that's what you're concerned about. The difference in gas systems will only affect how the bolt cycles and the difference you may notice is in felt recoil. Your accuracy will come from the actual bullet itself and the barrel. Plus or minus operator skill of course 
Bottom line, no need to over think the gas system. Find an upper that you like and a barrel length you want and go with that. If you're concerned about an urban environment the barrel length isn't what you are going to be looking at for accuracy as much as being able to maneuver in and around tight spaces. That's why the military went to the shorter M4 configuration as opposed to the longer M16 configuration. 16" barrels are pretty standard, but if you want something shorter it will require paper work and a tax stamp. If you want to avoid that you can go with a 14.5" barrel and have your flash hider permanently welded to the end to extend it out to the legal 16" but that's up to you. There's not going to be any change in accuracy one way or the other, especially under 300 yards. ETA: backbencher is correct. Any lower will have to be shipped to an FFL for a transfer. That part has the serial number stamped on it, so it is considered the actual "gun" Call some of your local gun shops and ask what they charge for a transfer fee. The going rate is around $20-$25 but you'll want to ask before you commit to a location. My brother recently tried to go through Gander Mountain for a transfer and they wanted to charge him $75!! |
| Read this. It helped me with a lot of the same questions when I got started. |
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The piston will run a little cleaner and cooler, but it generally also adds more weight. The AR was originally designed as a DI gas system, and has been a proven and reliable system since it's introduction. Just keep it clean and lubricated. So take what you will from that.
It's kind of like the Coke vs Pepsi debate. You're going to hear good and bad about both. Both of mine are DI, and I have no complaints. This is one decision you'll probably just have to decide on your own, maybe flip a coin lol. ETA: this video review may help http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6auXTiqNtEo |
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Thank you for the knowledge drop! @ Backbencer: Does all AR lower also support the 5.45x39 upper? I was also planning to save some dough by using either one or both 7N6 or Golden Tiger, Silver Bear (non corrosive ammo) for plinking and carbine classes. Some say that I shouldn't use an AR15 when I want to be shooting 5.45x39 since the platform already requires more maintenance, but I already have the habit of cleaning my AK-47 right after I am done shooting. As for the aftermarket trigger, should I get the Geissele or the 3MR trigger or recommend me one as good if not better? What types of tools do I need get to build a complete lower receiver? @ Victor9er: From some info I read, AR15 platforms are meant to be used with rifle length DIs, but if I were to be in an urban environment and a 100-200 yard engagements I should use mid-length, carbine or rifle length? What are your thoughts on DI and piston systems? I've read on both their pros and cons, but I want to know your thoughts and perhaps drop some stats and facts. Okay I will try to help you out you seem to have a great deal of questions. With some research you will be able to find all the calibers that are available for an AR15 lower. An AR15 Lower will support 5.45x39 I require a complete 5.45 upper. just make sure if you plan to shoot corrosive ammo you get an upper that is Chrome lined, or Melonite treated. For the triggers most here seem to recommend Geissele, I still use a good quality Mil Spec trigger on my ARs. So hopefully someone else will still chime in. As for tools these will be for both upper and lowers but I would just buy them all now since you seem to be on a path of customization Tools: Vise Clam Shell AR vise block, with insert and gas tube alignment pin, or a reaction rod Non marring hammer Hammer Set of steel and brass punches Armors Wrench Torque Wrench Set of Allen wrenches (not really for the AR but rails will require Allen wrenches for attaching accessories) As for you second question any gas system length will work but they are dependent on barrel length, for instance a rifle length gas system will not be reliable on a 16" barrel, but a mid or carbine will work. I prefer Carbine and Rifle length systems, just because they are the mil spec lengths. Some will claim mid length systems feel smoother, but I have shot both and never noticed much difference. You can search and read on pros and cons of pistons, IMO the are less accurate, because increase number of moving parts, causing more perceived recoil. The DI system is perfectly reliable. Pistons are really an answer to a problem that was never asked. I have personally seen DI ARs with 15k+ rounds though them without a single cleaning running without issue, as long as they were well lubed. The other issue with pistons systems is they are all proprietary systems so if the company goes out of business you are stuck having your own parts made if you need them. In a SHTF situation this could lead you to not having a rifle, where as DI ARs use standard parts. Edited: Looking for parts I would suggest a few companies, and you can go from there, Palmetto State Armory (PSA), Anderson MFG, Bravo Company USA(BCM), Daniel Defense(DD), Stag, Spikes Tactical. there are many others that are site sponsors as well, for lowers and upper and all the parts you need, I would avoid gunborker I guess unless you can get the parts cheaper there. For the most part a lower is lower, unless you like a certain rollmark, same goes for the upper, if you want a accurate rifle spend your money on a trigger for the lower, and a good barrel for the upper. Palmetto State Armory has Cosmetic Blem lowers for as cheap as $50. and non blems for $100 or less. Uppers go for similar prices. But maybe you like another rollmark for the lower, so buy what you want. If you planning to paint or coat your upper and lower, then the blems can be a good buy, I have bought both PSA blem upper and lower, the upper I bought the only thing that was wrong was a slight discoloration on the inside of the upper where the BCG rides, the lower I could not tell what the cosmetic blemish was. |
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Thanks for the info! What about AFG or VFG? Can someone please tell me what each of the grip's function/purpose are for? Angled Forward Grips are a substitute for VFGs on pistols under 26" long, so they don't become an unstamped Any Other Weapon. Some people like them on their rifles as well. AFG & VFG allow more pressure from the non-dominant arm to shove the butt firmly into the shoulder. Some VFG have bipods built in. Some pistols under 26" long use non-VFG bipods for the same reason some use AFG. There are also various magazine grips, that can serve as an AFG or VFG, but not if you follow the squib threads. |
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