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Posted: 5/16/2012 10:53:48 AM EDT
| I am building a Model 727 (M16A2) carbine and have been trying to find photos of the left side for the markings. Can anyone help me out with that on a USGI version? Also, I am trying to find left side photos for markings for a later (current) M4 or M4A1. I have found photos of the non-mil version Colt sells, but I am looking for photos that are definitely of a USGI version. Thanks. |
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I am building a Model 727 (M16A2) carbine and have been trying to find photos of the left side for the markings. Can anyone help me out with that on a USGI version? Also, I am trying to find left side photos for markings for a later (current) M4 or M4A1. I have found photos of the non-mil version Colt sells, but I am looking for photos that are definitely of a USGI version. Thanks. The RO727 was never a "USGI" version. They were marked with Colt's commercial rollmarks as "M16A2." Some late ones were also marked "M4/M16A2E." All commercial markings. Both A1 and A2 lower forgings. These commercial variants were bought "COTS," Commercial Off-The Shelf for use by specialized units that had a specific need for an M16A2 carbine variant. The M4 Carbine was being developed at the same time, and while a lot of lessons learned from one or the other probably translated back and forth - they were separate developments. Prior to the M4 Carbine (RO920) being adopted in 1994, the last "U.S. PROP" marked USGI carbine-style ARs were XM177E2 submachine guns. Colt RO920 and RO921HB photos are pretty easy to find for the rollmarks, but they will say: (prancing pony logo) PROPERTY OF U.S. GOVT M4[A1] CARBINE CAL. 5.56MM W[serial number] ~Augee |
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I posted this originally in the Retro forum and got some pretty good help. LRRPF52 posted a link to an archived thread from 2008 with an extensive discussion (including you), that I learned quite a lot from like the using of A1 forgings and the "sanitized" purchases for Special Ops. You included some photos of a 727 you had at the time that you said you were thinking about upgrading to make it more accurate. One of the pictures showed a roll mark of the Pony Logo with the word Colt beside it. Under that was in large letters "AR-15 A2". The next line was "GOV'T CARBINE" in smaller letters. The next line was "CAL. 223" in the same size letters. Below that was the S/N which you have covered. Is that what the commercial rollmark would be? Or would it be the "M-16 A2" you mention in your post? Also, did they have the "Auto" or "Burst" added for the selector and was it on both sides? Thanks for answering my questions. I am trying to make it a accurate as I can. I have added the link below in case you refresh your memory about what was posted back then
http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=123&t=406917 |
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The US Navy has admitted in previous NDIA briefings that they have had the Model 727 in inventory, and are looking to replace or convert them to M4A1. I've seen several COTS RO727s and RO723s in service, including some lowers that were converted to M4A1s - they are most certainly in service, but every one I've seen either in person or in photographs has had commercial rollmarks. I don't know that I would consider COTS purchases that were limited issue to be "USGI" in terms of "General Issue," but they've certainly been issued weapons to uniformed military. ~Augee |
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The US Navy has admitted in previous NDIA briefings that they have had the Model 727 in inventory, and are looking to replace or convert them to M4A1. I've seen several COTS RO727s and RO723s in service, including some lowers that were converted to M4A1s - they are most certainly in service, but every one I've seen either in person or in photographs has had commercial rollmarks. I don't know that I would consider COTS purchases that were limited issue to be "USGI" in terms of "General Issue," but they've certainly been issued weapons to uniformed military. FWIW: Page 13 of this .pdf mentions the USN's plans to convert 4,000 Model 727 to M4A1. It also details the priority order for their replacement. http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2006smallarms/gaskill.pdf |
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The US Navy has admitted in previous NDIA briefings that they have had the Model 727 in inventory, and are looking to replace or convert them to M4A1. I've seen several COTS RO727s and RO723s in service, including some lowers that were converted to M4A1s - they are most certainly in service, but every one I've seen either in person or in photographs has had commercial rollmarks. I don't know that I would consider COTS purchases that were limited issue to be "USGI" in terms of "General Issue," but they've certainly been issued weapons to uniformed military. FWIW: Page 13 of this .pdf mentions the USN's plans to convert 4,000 Model 727 to M4A1. It also details the priority order for their replacement. http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2006smallarms/gaskill.pdf There was a photo some months back that a member posted of a 10.3" barreled M4A1 CQBR that was using an RO727 lower with commercial rollmarks. I also suspect that some of the "EOD MK18s" are rebuilt RO727s from the shape of the lowers and the features, but I haven't seen too many good pictures of the rollmarks. ~Augee |
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Does anyone have a picture of a late 80's-early 90's M-16A2 commercial roll mark? 
http://autoweapons.com/products/products.html ~Augee |
This thread has really inspired me to build a 727 from all the Colt parts I have gathered over the years; including early Colt M4 14.5" non-F marked FS. Just picked up a Colt MB gray A2 upper, 6-hole HG and N1 stock from EE last week. Now I just need some dough to send barrel to ADCO for Sabre Defense comp to be pinned, welded & refinished. Of course I'll need an 80% engraved lower (just like Augee's picture) to finish up this project. The only non-Colt part is LMT gray 6-position receiver extension. I know it's not period-correct, but I'm just a sucker for grey parts.
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