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Posted: 5/30/2011 7:59:06 AM EDT
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Before I get started, I'm looking for a Central Indiana (West side/ Hendricks Co.) FFL dealer for a transfer. Found one online for $40. Seems a little steep. Any thoughts?
This will be my first build, but I've been turning tools my whole life, so we're comfortable there. I just wanted to to run my thoughts passed you guys with more AR brass under your feet than I have. Please be honest, but don't bruise me up too bad. This will be a budget A2 build, so just like my '97 Chevy with the missing tailgate and dented bumper, I know it won't perform like the new Dodge that I really want, but I need it to at least get me there. Here's my goals. Build the first one so I can learn for the second, add to the 38, 9mm, & 12 g. shotty, to round out the home defenses. Hoping to feed it whatever is on sale for plinking while keeping the more expensive stuff for Home defense (5.56 barrel for surplus options, but more than likely .223 rounds). Don't really expect to shoot 1" M.O.A., but I would like to be able to reach out and poison Mr. Coyote at maybe 150-200 yds. I want my sons to learn about Amendment #2 and it's tools. A handsome finish would be nice, but I'm not gonna be in any shows, and since the poor folks in Illinois don't seem to have any second amendment rights, I wanna be ready when the zombies head east. I have gone nearly cross-eyed due to hours and hours of surfing for the best bang for my buck. Here's what it is coming down to for now... a 16" mid-length, or a pinned 14.5". Until last night Model 1 Sales was the price leader, but I stumble across a current 10% coupon code for Delton, so that swings it to Delton. Problem is, neither company seems to offer their complete kit with a 14.5" barrel, nor does Model 1 offer a mid-length. I appears that they carry the barrels themselves, and would probably swap a kit out, but I would have to assume at a cost. It also may appear to be a no brainer at this point, but I would like to have a plan "B" in case of an inventory issue with the winning company (I don't wanna wait 6 weeks for the kit). Another plus for Delton, their kit has the CAR hand-guard with the M4 butt-stock. Perfect in my book. Model 1 is CAR front and back. Ok...now that you've read the book...here's some questions. 1. Delton offer their kit with either a Heavy or Lightweight barrel for the same price. Thoughts? 2. I'm 6' & 245 lbs, and still pretty solid for 40, so should I really even been concerned with a 16 " mid-length vs. 16" CAR for felt recoil? 3. I'm not L.E.O. or military, so although the 14.5 pinned saves me the 1 1/2", my shotty is 18" and it's OK, so am I putting too much thought into the slightly shorter barrel (other than dressing up in black and breaching my front door?) Here's the breakdown: Delton 16" mid-length kit, assembled, headspaced, and fired w/ lower receiver parts kit. $465 A2 upper add-on.......................................................................................................$10 Subtotal $475 "Shotgun News" discount code - 10% -$47.50 Adjusted Total $427.50 Tax $0.00 shipping $25.00 Upper Total $452.50 Aero stripped Lower(same manufacturer as Armalite & Spikes)(3 for $210) or 1 x $80.00 shipping to FFL $18.50 FFL transfer fee $40.00 2 pack Thermold magazines w/coupler from CDNN sports $17.00 tax $0.00 shipping $10.00 ________ Out the door total $618.00 That's where she stands. First off, does anybody have any experience with the Thermold mags listed above? Based on $618.00, in the opinion of the masses, would that make a good rifle for the money? I have also considered buying used. Would save the FFL transfer but the state sales tax would wash that savings. Could also possibly adopt someone else's headache, and would miss the opportunity to learn and understand the rifle which can only be a good thing. Your turn, share your thoughts and help this newbie out. Thanks for your time |
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I usually pay $20-25 for transfers. $40 is a bit high, bet you can shop around more. I'd go with the light barrel. HBARs are front heavy. Midlengths have a slightly longer sight radius but can sometimes be harder to upgrade to rails later, usually more expensive and not as commonly found. I had a custom 16" midlength barrel turned down to A1 profile, handled sweetly. I don't have a full auto lower so sustained fire overheating barrel wasn't to be a problem. IF you snap in with a sling on a non-free-float barrel, you can affect accuracy, though. For coyotes and such, the 5.56 round depends on velocity and bullet to put down your target. There are some good lightweight hollowpoint and other design high performance cartridges for varmints, 40-55gr, that work best in th 1/12 twist barrels, marginally stabilized in 1/9s. They don't penetrate as far before they fragment or mushroom out. So, for say, a thicker chest cavity target, like, large feral pigs, at further ranges, a heavier bullet in a 1/7 or 1/8 barrel is the A Answer. 62gr Mk318 work well out of 14.5" 1/7 barrels at longer ranges than the 62gr M855 Cartridge. I use 1/7 16" and 20" barrels, firing heavier bullets like the 69gr or 77gr, not restrained by the Geneva Convention, so ballistic tipped hollowpoints, and other high performance, non-FMJ are the cartridge of choice. |
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I usually pay $20-25 for transfers. $40 is a bit high, bet you can shop around more.
That sounds better, that would put the build at sub $600...so I will definitely call around. I'd go with the light barrel. HBARs are front heavy. Midlengths have a slightly longer sight radius but can sometimes be harder to upgrade to rails later, usually more expensive and not as commonly found. I had considered the weight, but overlooked the sight radius. As far as all the tacti-cool add ons, I'm saving that for build #2. The only think I will probably do with this one is throw a torch on the front. Maybe a red dot on the handle top when I have the money...something to transfer to build #2 later. This will end up being my truck/trunk gun, so nothin fancy. I had a custom 16" midlength barrel turned down to A1 profile, handled sweetly. I don't have a full auto lower so sustained fire overheating barrel wasn't to be a problem. IF you snap in with a sling on a non-free-float barrel, you can affect accuracy, though copy that. Semi auto here, and I'll have to remember not to go white knuckles. For coyotes and such, the 5.56 round depends on velocity and bullet to put down your target. There are some good lightweight hollowpoint and other design high performance cartridges for varmints, 40-55gr, that work best in th 1/12 twist barrels, marginally stabilized in 1/9s. They don't penetrate as far before they fragment or mushroom out. So, for say, a thicker chest cavity target, like, large feral pigs, at further ranges, a heavier bullet in a 1/7 or 1/8 barrel is the A Answer. 62gr Mk318 work well out of 14.5" 1/7 barrels at longer ranges than This is one area where I will have to learn some more. I know most of the kits I've looked at are 1/9's. Other obviously available for an upgrade though. Most of the plinking ammo round here is a 55/g fmj. I'm hoping that I can break in with that and then research it some more. As far as the coyotes...shouldn't be a huge problem. They are around but don't cause any problems now, but....the wife is harping on me for some chickens. So even then it may even be under a 100 yds. I use 1/7 16" and 20" barrels, firing heavier bullets like the 69gr or 77gr, not restrained by the Geneva Convention, so ballistic tipped hollowpoints, and other high performance, non-FMJ are the cartridge of choice. I will spend some surfing time on this subject. Thanks for all of the input. Much appreciated. Jos. 24:15 |
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I would go with the Delton kit. Nice to know about the Show Gun news 10% coupon. I have purchased the kit and barrels from Delton and found no problems with them.
I would recommend the light barrel compared to the heavy. I would only go heavy if I was doing a 20" plus barrel. Your good with the $80 lower, check DS arms for a cosmetic blem lower for $60 plus shipping. Also take a look at DS arms on a complete rifle bought in pieces: $200 for a completed lower receiver with LPK and butt stock kit installed $275 M-4 upper receiver with barrel assembled. $110 Bolt Carrier group $585.00 total plus shipping and transfer fees. |
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Matched Set, Surplus Ammo and Arms A3 Upper/Lower: $124.99, made from the same 7075 T6 forgings as everybody else's. http://www.surplusammo.com/products/%2ASurplus-Ammo-%26-Arms-AR15-Matched-Lower-%26-Upper-Set%252d-Stripped.html Bolt Carrier Assy, same source, $94.99: http://www.surplusammo.com/products/SA%26A-AR15-Complete-Bolt-Carrier-Group%252d-.223%7B47%7D5.56.html or DSA Chrome-Lined M4 Profile 16" Barreled Upper for $325, no bolt carrier: http://www.dsarms.com/DSA-ZM4-A3-Upper-Receiver-16-Barrel-M4-HG-Parked-Chrome-Lined––-DSZM4CBUPARKCL/productinfo/DSZM4CBUPARKCL/ Or DSA Nitrided Bore A3 16" Midlength Upper, $300, on backorder, though: http://www.dsarms.com/DSA-ZM4-A3-Upper-Receiver-16-Barrel-Mid-Length-HG––-DSZM4CBUMID/productinfo/DSZM4CBUMID/ Daniel Defense makes some very nice 14.5" chrome-lined hammer-forged lightweight profile barrels, which is a future choice of mine, but you have to pin an extended A2 or Vortex on to keep it legal $315: https://danieldefense.com/cold-hammer-forged-barrels/14-5-5-56mm-lightweight-carbine-chf-barrel-w-fsb.html They also have the 14.5" LW with a midlength gas system: https://danieldefense.com/cold-hammer-forged-barrels/14-5-5-56mm-lightweight-mid-length-chf-barrel-w-fsb.html Hammer-forged, chrome-lined, Midlength 16" Lightweight Barrel, out of stock though, $355: https://danieldefense.com/cold-hammer-forged-barrels/16-5-56mm-lightweight-mid-length-chf-barrel-complete.html YOu can also get a chrome-lined, cut rifling 14.7in M4 Barrel with pinned standard A2 FH on for legal length $319: http://cmmginc.secure-mall.com/item/CMMG-14.7-inch-M4-5.56-Barrel-with-permanent-flash-hider-1187 You can get the 14.5" or 16" lightweight carbine barrels, with a low profile gas block, install a mid-length free float rail which covers the gas block, add a front sight and sling mount on the rail. My current C8 SFW-style carbine has a chrome-lined 1/7 16" barrel, but it is heavier than my 20" A2 barrel, as it has more 0.74" OD barrel than the A2, which has a longer, thin profile under the handguards. She is front heavy with exception of length, I actually like the feel of my A2 with carbine stock assy. People complain about the extra 5.5" the A2 rifle has over the M4 carbine, but, we did MOUT for years with the M16A2 Rifles, M60s and M249s before the M4s were adopted. We had the largest MOUT Site in the world at the time, complete with tunnels and sewer systems below the buildings. Walking crouched over thru a 4 ft diameter concrete pipe 20 feet underground, while carrying a M249 SAW or M60 sucks.... Even worse when the pipe is filled with smoke....... With our M855 Cartridges, we have problems putting down skinnies and Taliban Timmy, the 62gr bullet most often passes thru before it has a chance to fragment or fully tumble inside. Its a greater problem with the 14.5" Carbines, the M855 and older M193 depend on velocity to fragment for optimum effects on target. Beyond 175 meters, the bullet decellerates below the fragmentation velocity. The Mk 262 77gr extends the fragmentation range for M4 Carbines, but is expensive. We could probably benefit from 20" barrels in Afghanistan, gain a longer frag range, sight radius over the M4 carbine. Canadians use the C7A2, 20" A2 barrel, flat top, 4 position carbine stock, with a heavy Elcan C79 3.4x Scope. You can load your own Mk262-style cartridge much cheaper.....practice with 55gr FMJ, then rezero back to battlesight zero for the 77gr Mk 262 Cartridge when you are done with RJFA for the day. Prvi Partisan 69gr match ammo is fairly reasonable in price to train with and use for punching holes in "feral hogs". |
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Appreciate the input brother, I know it takes a lot of time. And just when I thought I had it all figured out. LOL. I had originally looked into piecing out the upper and lower and was coming close on the money, but the darn charging handles and BCG always seemed to tip the scales. I figure for build #2 I will pick up a barrel wrench and do a complete build from parts. I think for this one, I will stick with the mid length 16" lightweight. For #2 I'll then bump it up to A3 w/ folding BUIS on a block, rails, optics, and try a different twist. Don't really know if it's worth the chrome upgrade though, I don't even bump, let alone full auto, and thank the Lord, there's no sand in my back yard.
I actually just talked to a buddy tonight and he's got the reloading equipment, just sounds like I need the dies for the .223, and obviously the bullets. Any off the shelf ammo that you'd pitch the brass on, or is all worth saving? By the way, thank you for your military service! |
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