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Posted: 3/21/2011 7:55:21 PM EDT
| Ok, so I have a few AR's, and for whatever reason find the A2 sexy. I think I may see one in the future soon. My question is this: At what ranges are you guys shooting your A2's? I know I have heard, "I shoot 500 with irons", but what realistic distances are you guys shooting, what ammo, and what kind of accuracy are you getting? Also, what version of rifle are you using, and how "stock" is it? Just curius. I want to know what I can expect, but with realism as well though. Thanks for the input in advance. 9080 Out. |
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Ok, so I have a few AR's, and for whatever reason find the A2 sexy. I think I may see one in the future soon. My question is this: At what ranges are you guys shooting your A2's? I know I have heard, "I shoot 500 with irons", but what realistic distances are you guys shooting, what ammo, and what kind of accuracy are you getting? Also, what version of rifle are you using, and how "stock" is it? Just curius. I want to know what I can expect, but with realism as well though. Thanks for the input in advance. 9080 Out. The longest measured distance I've ever shot my A2 at is 200meters/225yards, I seem to recall getting 5 shots into something a 3 or 4 inch group at that range shooting Prvi Partizan M193, shooting from a bench with the rifle up on sandbags. I may have gotten some smaller groups in the 2" area, and I know I got some larger ones, but I want to say that 3 or 4 inches was pretty much the norm for that setup. It's been a while. That rifle is a semi-auto clone of a military A2 with two differences, the barrel is a 1x9 twist instead of 1x7 (Still A2 profile and chrome lined) and the bolt group is a chrome plated RRA model. |
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I had A2s in the Corp. We qualified at 200,300 and 500 meters. At 200 we shot sitting, kneeling and standing. At 300 we shot sitting and prone. At 500 we shot 10 rounds prone at a man size target waist up to head. I never missed a 500 shot. The 500m is the easiest part of qual |
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Quoted:
Ok, so I have a few AR's, and for whatever reason find the A2 sexy. I think I may see one in the future soon. My question is this: At what ranges are you guys shooting your A2's? I know I have heard, "I shoot 500 with irons", but what realistic distances are you guys shooting, what ammo, and what kind of accuracy are you getting? Also, what version of rifle are you using, and how "stock" is it? Just curius. I want to know what I can expect, but with realism as well though. Thanks for the input in advance. 9080 Out. Actually, I do shoot my AR 600 yards with irons. So do most high power shooters. It outshoots M14's at that range in fact. Just from a random search: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQWSdth0VZs Though personally I find rattle battle (Infantry Trophy match) competition far more satisfying. All AR-15's, all irons, all 600 yards. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-RfZHZVUyo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYDsaPnRuOY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_i1ZDfsvGs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjZ63nJAgHY |
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I had A2s in the Corp. We qualified at 200,300 and 500 meters. At 200 we shot sitting, kneeling and standing. At 300 we shot sitting and prone. At 500 we shot 10 rounds prone at a man size target waist up to head. I never missed a 500 shot. Army quals circa 1992-1995 was out to 300 yds. 20 rounds prone with sandbag. Single pop up targets for 10 rounds at 50,75, 100 yds then 50 yards increments out to 300. Then 10 rounds wth multiple targets out to same. Same course repeated from foxhole with sandbag. Targets were timed and I don't recall the limits but it inceased proportionately with the range. At Ft McClellan there was a large 4x8 plywood training aid that spelled out the course of fire with actual qualification array. Memorizing that prior to Q helped me score 40/40. Never having to search for a target was great. After firing at one I'd transitiion to the next and wait for it to pop up. Targets were 3 foot "Screaming Ivans". We did fire a known distance range out to 500 yards once or twice but not for a qualification. I remember getting consistant hits out to 500 yards. But 300 was the actual Q course. ETA course of fire was same for A1 & A2s. As I recall Military Police had A2s before the Chemical Corps trainees did. |
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Actually, I do shoot my AR 600 yards with irons. So do most high power shooters. It outshoots M14's at that range in fact. Actually all of us Highpower competitors do, lazyengineer is right! I recommend to the OP (Fireman) to look up what ranges in his local area have NRA/CMP Highpower competitions, and get out there and give it a try, it is fun seeing what these rifles really can do! Its a great way to meet fellow enthusiasts, and you will become a better rifleman every time you get out there. I guarantee you you'll have plenty of offers to help and offers to lend needed equipment. Where are you? Mike |
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Anyone who wants to can confirm the truth of my Post by IMing ghostrifle308, slowpokerodriguize or mysterymachinist
back in 06 I decided I wanted to prove what a Ar15 was capable of. I was able to make 1000 yard hits on a steel gong shaped like an average man, head to waist. I did it with irons only using a leather GI sling and my own reloads. I made five hits prone and 5 sitting. loads where a combo of seirra 80 grain HPBTs and 77s 80 where seated out for single load using 24.5 grains of varget, 77s were seated to magazine length with 24.0 grains of varget. I had to play around with the front site a little but was aboe to zero in such a way to set my rear site to 800 meters plus 2 clicks to hit at 1000 yards guns was a colt R6601 average groups where 1-1.5 MOA with handloads I practiced leading up to it for 3 weeks. laying in the floor dry firing and making sure the sling was just right. and handload testing. it was my proudest shooting accomplishment |
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I don't doubt your 1000 yard gong story at all. Bet that trajectory looked like a rainbow! I'm classified as Expert in NRA Highpower rifle and drill the X and 10 (size of a paper plate) pretty consistently from 600 yards. I get that same look when I tell the uninformed that. I hear "Ya mean with a scope" a lot. No, with iron sights. I like the SMK 80's (with Varget behind it) at that distance as well. My rifle is an RRA with a White Oak Krieger barreled upper, I bought used of of the EE. Freakin' thing has radar, I swear. Don't take our word for it. Get out on that range and do it yourself. I like the slow fire 600 course of fire the best. Get on the CMP website www.odcmp.com and find a local range that puts on the NRA highpower rifle course. H. |
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I had A2s in the Corp. We qualified at 200,300 and 500 meters. At 200 we shot sitting, kneeling and standing. At 300 we shot sitting and prone. At 500 we shot 10 rounds prone at a man size target waist up to head. I never missed a 500 shot. I remember always having trouble shooting offhand, but like you at 500m, if it moved, it was mine. I know the AR is rated for 800m, but can shoot out to 1km. Personally, I love using iron sights at long ranges. Optics are great, but there is something about using iron at long ranges that I really love. Semper Fi Brother. Ron Sgt USMC |
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I was at the MP school (Ft McClellean) Jan-May of 1994. 787th MP C Company. I hit 40/40. Supposedly those that qual'd with 40/40 were supposed to have their names up on the range board. Was never back there to find out if that was the case...
ETA: We were using M16A2's at the time. Quoted:
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I had A2s in the Corp. We qualified at 200,300 and 500 meters. At 200 we shot sitting, kneeling and standing. At 300 we shot sitting and prone. At 500 we shot 10 rounds prone at a man size target waist up to head. I never missed a 500 shot. Army quals circa 1992-1995 was out to 300 yds. 20 rounds prone with sandbag. Single pop up targets for 10 rounds at 50,75, 100 yds then 50 yards increments out to 300. Then 10 rounds wth multiple targets out to same. Same course repeated from foxhole with sandbag. Targets were timed and I don't recall the limits but it inceased proportionately with the range. At Ft McClellan there was a large 4x8 plywood training aid that spelled out the course of fire with actual qualification array. Memorizing that prior to Q helped me score 40/40. Never having to search for a target was great. After firing at one I'd transitiion to the next and wait for it to pop up. Targets were 3 foot "Screaming Ivans". We did fire a known distance range out to 500 yards once or twice but not for a qualification. I remember getting consistant hits out to 500 yards. But 300 was the actual Q course. ETA course of fire was same for A1 & A2s. As I recall Military Police had A2s before the Chemical Corps trainees did. |
| I was trained on the M-16A1 rifle. I never used the A-2 or its rear sight on active military service. It was adopted after my three combat trips abroad. But I qualified numerous times as expert on the Army known-distance ranges. This old method is not pure rifle markmansship at all. I understand that is why our military came out with the squad designated marksmanship program. But we were trained - hit the enemy at 300 meters and try not to let them get to 150 meters alive, if possible. At my age now, 300 meters is tops for my older eyes. |
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I've shot out to 600m with an M4 Carbine off the rack without problems. With a 4x scope, it's pretty simple to hit a man sized target- if you miss, it's because you did something wrong, and you usually know it by the time you break trigger. The rifle will do it all day long as long as you do your part.
IIRC- during testing of the M16A2, they were firing M855 (SS109) at M1 "steel pot" helmets and penetrating both sides with a 20" barrel. The 4MOA standard for the M16/M4 series rifle that the military considers the very minimum (meaning most "milspec" rifles shoot better) gets you 24 inches at 600m, meaning that you're more likely to hit than miss an "average" 20" man-sized torso target. Thirty round magazines- off the rack, minimum standard rifle. You do the math. 
~Augee |
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Quoted:
Ok, so I have a few AR's, and for whatever reason find the A2 sexy. I think I may see one in the future soon. My question is this: At what ranges are you guys shooting your A2's? I know I have heard, "I shoot 500 with irons", but what realistic distances are you guys shooting, what ammo, and what kind of accuracy are you getting? Also, what version of rifle are you using, and how "stock" is it? Just curius. I want to know what I can expect, but with realism as well though. Thanks for the input in advance. 9080 Out. I shoot 600 with irons. 77 grain SMK, 24 gr RL15, LC case. A2 "National Match" rifle. I can hold the ten ring if I do my part and don't miss a wind call. |
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I know I have heard, "I shoot 500 with irons", but what realistic distances are you guys shooting, what ammo, and what kind of accuracy are you getting? Also, what version of rifle are you using, and how "stock" is it? Just curius. I want to know what I can expect, but with realism as well though. I hope this helps with the "real" part. I still have my old data books. This is a pic of one of my 500 yd qual days. It was from Dec 2004. Snow blowing in my face and frozen fingers. All G.I. issue. Old beat to hell AR-15 A2. Upper / Lower gap so wide you could stuff a match book in it. M855 ammo. 10 rounds in a 20 x 20 square which is 4 MOA. http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/7370/500yds.jpg[/URL][/img] |
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I use my to 300 from the standing regularly....a lot of these guys here are going a lot further. I can tell you have I no issues hitting our 300 yard gong at the Rio Solado Sportsman's Club in Mesa, AZ. A2s are truly born shooters. I REALLLLLY want on the of the new AR-10A2Fs.......BAD!!!! |
I was shooting mine prone out to 200 meters on Friday at a 10" steel plate and had no problems hitting the plate. That's as far as the range goes where I shoot. All in all I have no complaints, I haven't shot that far since I was in the Naval Reserve. Forgot how much fun it was! 
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Actually, I do shoot my AR 600 yards with irons. So do most high power shooters. It outshoots M14's at that range in fact. Actually all of us Highpower competitors do, lazyengineer is right! I recommend to the OP (Fireman) to look up what ranges in his local area have NRA/CMP Highpower competitions, and get out there and give it a try, it is fun seeing what these rifles really can do! Its a great way to meet fellow enthusiasts, and you will become a better rifleman every time you get out there. I guarantee you you'll have plenty of offers to help and offers to lend needed equipment. Where are you? Mike realize I'm late on a thread, but THIS is the reason I might put together an A2 and get into Hi-power.... I qual'd at the 500 when I was in the Corps, but havent' even thought of shooting like that since I got out in the early 90s |
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