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Posted: 2/16/2024 5:23:07 PM EDT
[#1]
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Posted: 2/16/2024 5:57:01 PM EDT
[#2]
Picked up the suppressor yesterday , just need an optic. Will probably be a few months so this is how it will sit for a while.
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 2/16/2024 7:01:19 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By home_alone1: Picked up the suppressor yesterday , just need an optic. Will probably be a few months so this is how it will sit for a while. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/275279/IMG_0088_jpeg-3131370.JPG  Attached File |
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Posted: 2/17/2024 3:24:41 PM EDT
[#4]
I'm about to dive into the rabbit hole that is the Gordy "clone." Contemplating several barrel options and I need some input (not necessarily looking to 100% clone MSG Gordon's rifle; function over form). Option 1 is a BKF/Ballistic Advantage 12.5" FSB barrel. #2 is a Centurion CHF 12.5 or Criterion Core 12.5 (either with FSB added). #3 is a Green Mountain CL 12.7" (with FSB added).
My end goal is a long lasting, combat accurate barrel that functions well with an AEM5/OCM5 suppressor. Input on the "Gordon collar" vs the AE M4 collar on a 12.5/12.7" barrel is welcome as well. |
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Posted: 2/17/2024 10:59:48 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By home_alone1: Picked up the suppressor yesterday , just need an optic. Will probably be a few months so this is how it will sit for a while. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/275279/IMG_0088_jpeg-3131370.JPG I need to get my shit together and get mine set back up to host the M5 again. And I love the aesthetics of the chopped A1 VFG. |
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Posted: 2/18/2024 9:08:38 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By eddster: I'm about to dive into the rabbit hole that is the Gordy "clone." Contemplating several barrel options and I need some input (not necessarily looking to 100% clone MSG Gordon's rifle; function over form). Option 1 is a BKF/Ballistic Advantage 12.5" FSB barrel. #2 is a Centurion CHF 12.5 or Criterion Core 12.5 (either with FSB added). #3 is a Green Mountain CL 12.7" (with FSB added). My end goal is a long lasting, combat accurate barrel that functions well with an AEM5/OCM5 suppressor. Input on the "Gordon collar" vs the AE M4 collar on a 12.5/12.7" barrel is welcome as well. I know the old plans required a 12.7” barrel for the AE or OCM5 to mount up in a faux Gordy build, but I believe OC and AE have made collars with different dims to allow the 12.5” barrels to work. |
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USA
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Posted: 2/18/2024 11:59:19 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By eddster: I'm about to dive into the rabbit hole that is the Gordy "clone." Contemplating several barrel options and I need some input (not necessarily looking to 100% clone MSG Gordon's rifle; function over form). Option 1 is a BKF/Ballistic Advantage 12.5" FSB barrel. #2 is a Centurion CHF 12.5 or Criterion Core 12.5 (either with FSB added). #3 is a Green Mountain CL 12.7" (with FSB added). My end goal is a long lasting, combat accurate barrel that functions well with an AEM5/OCM5 suppressor. Input on the "Gordon collar" vs the AE M4 collar on a 12.5/12.7" barrel is welcome as well. I just got a 3 piece style collar from Ron that's made for a 12.5" barrel. I have a ballistic advantage barrel and it works great. Before that I had a standard AE collar on the same barrel. Also worked great. Only difference is the look really. Either way you're going to probably need the collar bored out to match your barrel diameter. Both of my collars needed custom machining to get the proper fit (the BA barrel was a little undersized compared to the standard collars available off the shelf.) As for 12.7 vs 12.5 that's up to you. If you use the standard AE collar it won't matter. If you want the 3 piece design you'll have to get it specifically made for whatever barrel length you choose. |
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Posted: 2/18/2024 12:04:59 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Flyit14: I just got a 3 piece style collar from Ron that's made for a 12.5" barrel. I have a ballistic advantage barrel and it works great. Before that I had a standard AE collar on the same barrel. Also worked great. Only difference is the look really. Either way you're going to probably need the collar bored out to match your barrel diameter. Both of my collars needed custom machining to get the proper fit (the BA barrel was a little undersized compared to the standard collars available off the shelf.) As for 12.7 vs 12.5 that's up to you. If you use the standard AE collar it won't matter. If you want the 3 piece design you'll have to get it specifically made for whatever barrel length you choose. Good info, thanks. I snagged a Criterion Core 12.5" for a solid deal, so off to John Thomas it goes for the FSB installation  Dumb question; on the standard AE collar, did you use the M4 or SPR collar? |
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USA
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Posted: 2/18/2024 12:07:46 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By eddster: Good info, thanks. I snagged a Criterion Core 12.5" for a solid deal, so off to John Thomas it goes for the FSB installation Dumb question; on the standard AE collar, did you use the M4 or SPR collar? M4 collar. It indexes of the little step just behind the muzzle. |
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Posted: 2/18/2024 3:13:55 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By xldrvr: I meant to originally post on this thread. I'm putting on the final touches to my Gordon Carbine Clone, just waiting for the MGW rail and put a rattle can to it, this Summer. Parts include: Colt C7 Upper Colt 6520 A2 Gov't Carbine Lower Colt 2 Position Buffer Tube Colt 14.5" Gov't Profile barrel AEG M4 Suppressor set up, from Charlies Colt furniture Aimpoint 5000 The hardest part was getting the upper/lower and other parts re-anodized. SnF Finishing provided the services and came pretty close in color. Would a darker grey be closer to period correct, in the end it'll be painted over, but my OCD would know better. Also a shoutout to The Braceman, who refurbished the used upper and drilling the detent spring and weep hole. I have a Colt civilian 723 upper and had Braceman plug the front pin to MilSpec size. I'm debating about getting a complete 6520, which has he darker Colt grey color. Plus, I can take the A2 upper and make a Blood Diamond clone? https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53526695627_810c449a0b_k.jpgIMG_8503 by Cosmo Kramer, on Flickr" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53526695627_810c449a0b_k.jpgIMG_8503 by Cosmo Kramer, on Flickr You're closer leaving it the way it is now than doing anything at all to it. Many Colt M16A2-era rifles had a very similar appearance with an almost bluish cast, often referred to as "preban gray." The darker "charcoal gray" is generally too late for an R0723. Photographic evidence suggests that the rifle was in the process of and very close to being completely and deliberately stripped of camouflage paint, particularly the receivers--the paint mostly remained on the parts that it would be harder to remove from (plastic parts / baked on to the suppressor). It is also neither obvious nor clear than an Aimpoint would have been installed during a daytime mission or potentially at all. ~Augee |
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USA
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Posted: 2/18/2024 7:23:42 PM EDT
[#11]
Gordy update. Got a three piece collar from Ron. Looks better than the M4 collar.
This is actually what I'm calling the "Movie Gordon" I've got an M4 suppressor and a 14.5" upper in the works for a more accurate version. Nothin wrong with two Gordy builds right? Ignore the red dot mount on the M1A. That's a work in progress. I'll paint the can eventually.  
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Posted: 2/18/2024 7:34:21 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Flyit14: Gordy update. Got a three piece collar from Ron. Looks better than the M4 collar. This is actually what I'm calling the "Movie Gordon" I've got an M4 suppressor and a 14.5" upper in the works for a more accurate version. Nothin wrong with two Gordy builds right? Ignore the red dot mount on the M1A. That's a work in progress. I'll paint the can eventually. https://i.imgur.com/w4wDX5g.jpg https://i.imgur.com/KNmpj4E.jpg The Gordy looks excellent. How much did the 3 piece collar from Ron run you, if you don't mind my asking? |
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USA
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Posted: 2/18/2024 8:20:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Flyit14]
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By eddster: The Gordy looks excellent. How much did the 3 piece collar from Ron run you, if you don't mind my asking? Thanks! It was $120 shipped. Just sent him the barrel measurement and he whipped it up for me. |
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Posted: 2/18/2024 8:46:45 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Flyit14: Thanks! It was $120 shipped. Just sent him the barrel measurement and he whipped it up for me. Excellent. Once my Criterion gets here, I'm going to get some measurements and hopefully get Ron to work his magic for me. |
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Posted: 2/18/2024 10:20:53 PM EDT
[#15]
 hopefully itll upload with enough quality to see that only one of the car15's has a shell deflector..... also look at those flashlights so mostly early 723s. all had extendo mounts second from the right has a "C7" upper |
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Posted: 2/18/2024 10:28:30 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Brandonbeezy: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/517593/delta-3133910.jpg hopefully itll upload with enough quality to see that only one of the car15's has a shell deflector..... also look at those flashlights so mostly early 723s. all had extendo mounts second from the right has a "C7" upper fyi dude lower left is wearing Gargoyle sunglasses, the very same worn by Dale Earnhardt, the terminator, and randy savage.... incase anyone was wondering.. the boys had style, no doubt about it... |
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Posted: 2/19/2024 8:51:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: towerofpower94]
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Brandonbeezy: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/517593/delta-3133910.jpg hopefully itll upload with enough quality to see that only one of the car15's has a shell deflector..... also look at those flashlights so mostly early 723s. all had extendo mounts second from the right has a "C7" upper Holy pencil barrel, Batman And it looks like all the carry handles we can see have a long RDS on it. Presume the Aimpoint 2000 or 3000? |
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Posted: 2/19/2024 10:49:36 PM EDT
[#18]
Heres another looking at the car15s from that time frame.
Left, and center are c7 types, right is A1. Center and right have "M4" profile barrels, left is pencil. All 3 appear to be running loan star grips. All 3 running gangster grips, but with differences.. Left is using a loan star grip, center is using an A2, right looks like another loan star. Center looks like it has the colt hbar delta grip cut for the gg, or at least the medallion installed, i say this over a button because it looks like a triangle inside of a circle. No idea on lights, but the dude on the left is running a red lens cap. Dude on right may be rubber banding a tape switch on 
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Posted: 2/19/2024 11:23:15 PM EDT
[#19]
Thanks for the era photos.
Surprised you don't see much of the old carry handle 4x20's. |
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Posted: 2/20/2024 8:34:33 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kalahnikid: Thanks for the era photos. Surprised you don't see much of the old carry handle 4x20's. The colt ones? Ive actually seen more photos of them from GWOT than anything |
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Posted: 2/20/2024 9:37:18 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Brandonbeezy: The colt ones? Ive actually seen more photos of them from GWOT than anything Yeah, the old Colt scopes. I just remember them being on ARs when I got into shooting in the late 90s |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 2/20/2024 12:50:16 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kalahnikid: Thanks for the era photos. Surprised you don't see much of the old carry handle 4x20's. A 4x scope is not what you want on your rifle when your duty title is "assaulter." The early red dots are much better for MOUT and working in the dark than a 4x scope. |
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Posted: 2/23/2024 1:43:02 PM EDT
[#23]
Anybody got another source for that Streamlight handguard flashlight mount? They're no longer available thru Amazon. I'm seeing a few other vendors but IDK what their stock is or if they're reputable.
GG&G offers this one but it's quite a bit longer than the footprint of the ring so I'd probably end up cutting it to achieve a cleaner look. |
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Posted: 2/23/2024 6:53:31 PM EDT
[#24]
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Posted: 2/23/2024 6:55:25 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryI won't tell you how much I paid for mine 😁 you'll be mad, trust me. |
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Posted: 2/23/2024 6:59:01 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By eddster: I won't tell you how much I paid for mine 😁 you'll be mad, trust me. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By eddster: I won't tell you how much I paid for mine 😁 you'll be mad, trust me. I think I gave like 60 for mine. I’ve heard of guys getting them for 15 bucks out of the bargain bin at pawn shops  eBay was all over the place last time I looked |
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Posted: 2/23/2024 7:07:32 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cowbell: I think I gave like 60 for mine. I’ve heard of guys getting them for 15 bucks out of the bargain bin at pawn shops eBay was all over the place last time I looked I was fortunate enough to snag a very nice condition 6p from a stellar fellow ARF member for a great price. |
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Posted: 2/23/2024 9:14:55 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RTUtah: Anybody got another source for that Streamlight handguard flashlight mount? They're no longer available thru Amazon. I'm seeing a few other vendors but IDK what their stock is or if they're reputable. GG&G offers this one but it's quite a bit longer than the footprint of the ring so I'd probably end up cutting it to achieve a cleaner look. I think most of us got them on ebay and amazon. The couple places on google showing in stock seem sketchy. I’ve got an extra if you need one. |
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Posted: 2/23/2024 10:58:48 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RTUtah: Anybody got another source for that Streamlight handguard flashlight mount? They're no longer available thru Amazon. I'm seeing a few other vendors but IDK what their stock is or if they're reputable. GG&G offers this one but it's quite a bit longer than the footprint of the ring so I'd probably end up cutting it to achieve a cleaner look. i think when i actually build out a period as possible Delta carbine, ill end up cutting a weaver rail scope mount. ive heard that was pretty common in the 80s and 90s. not sure how i want to build it though since we've now seen photographic proof that not all delta dudes ran "c7" uppers and that the 723s were a mixed bag of barrel/receiver combinations. the easy thing would be to jjust put my A1 uppper back together, but i intend to use my 6520 lower as a base, i kinda want to track down a Colt A1 or C7 receiver in similar condition to match, then use the salty upper for a ragged out M16A1 build. pic of lower for reference   its the darker grey with a purple hue when wet. to get back on track with a light mount....  personally i think these would be be the play does anyone remember the minimum barrel diameter for Rons collar for the M4 can? Ideally id like for my set up to be done with a pencil barrel, which i happen to have. |
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Posted: 2/24/2024 12:35:04 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Brandonbeezy: to get back on track with a light mount.... https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/517593/Classic_48460_Top_ThreeQuarter-3139320.jpg personally i think these would be be the play I think those are tight too, so who makes 'em?! |
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Posted: 2/24/2024 2:58:10 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RTUtah: I think those are tight too, so who makes 'em?! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RTUtah: Originally Posted By Brandonbeezy: to get back on track with a light mount.... https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/517593/Classic_48460_Top_ThreeQuarter-3139320.jpg personally i think these would be be the play I think those are tight too, so who makes 'em?! Those ones he pictured are Weaver # 35 and 36 for Remington 700 receivers. What you would want to do it find a weaver section that matches the contour of the handguard as close as possible. |
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Posted: 2/24/2024 9:52:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: RTUtah]
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheTacticalCoyote: Those ones he pictured are Weaver # 35 and 36 for Remington 700 receivers. What you would want to do it find a weaver section that matches the contour of the handguard as close as possible. Ah interesting. Might just get the GG&G mount and cut it short. Or maybe beat @Subpar up for his spare.
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USA
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Posted: 2/24/2024 11:26:37 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Brandonbeezy: i think when i actually build out a period as possible Delta carbine, ill end up cutting a weaver rail scope mount. ive heard that was pretty common in the 80s and 90s. not sure how i want to build it though since we've now seen photographic proof that not all delta dudes ran "c7" uppers and that the 723s were a mixed bag of barrel/receiver combinations. the easy thing would be to jjust put my A1 uppper back together, but i intend to use my 6520 lower as a base, i kinda want to track down a Colt A1 or C7 receiver in similar condition to match, then use the salty upper for a ragged out M16A1 build. pic of lower for reference https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/517593/20240220_123907-3139316.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/517593/20240223_190821-3139315.jpg its the darker grey with a purple hue when wet. to get back on track with a light mount.... https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/517593/Classic_48460_Top_ThreeQuarter-3139320.jpg personally i think these would be be the play does anyone remember the minimum barrel diameter for Rons collar for the M4 can? Ideally id like for my set up to be done with a pencil barrel, which i happen to have. I have an unmodified collar at home. I’ll measure it when I get home in a couple days. But I know the collar sleeve as it comes is smaller in ID than both my colt 20” pencil barrel and my brownells 16” pencil barrel. I want to say by about 0.020” at least. But don’t quote me on that. ADCO is currently opening up another collar for a .750 M4 profile barrel for me. So I think either would work just fine. |
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Posted: 2/24/2024 3:44:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Brandonbeezy]
[#34]
Hey, when mounting a TA11 onto a carry handle i assume you use the forward hole on the optic correct?
What thumb screw is used, my buddy found the TA53 but we're not sure if thats what needed.   Edit, ok we're silly, it clears the rear sight fine. Still need info on the thumb screw though.  Pardon my language, but this gun fucks |
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Posted: 2/24/2024 3:45:29 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Flyit14: I have an unmodified collar at home. I’ll measure it when I get home in a couple days. But I know the collar sleeve as it comes is smaller in ID than both my colt 20” pencil barrel and my brownells 16” pencil barrel. I want to say by about 0.020” at least. But don’t quote me on that. ADCO is currently opening up another collar for a .750 M4 profile barrel for me. So I think either would work just fine. Awesome, im now excited for this build again! |
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Posted: 2/25/2024 6:44:10 PM EDT
[#36]
Tried my hand at making a gangster grip today. If you squint, it’s mint.
 Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 2/25/2024 9:26:07 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cowbell: Tried my hand at making a gangster grip today. If you squint, it’s mint. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/259822/IMG_1157_jpeg-3141295.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/259822/IMG_1156_jpeg-3141297.JPG Nice. You guys doing these A1 to VFG things is making me want to do one. |
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Posted: 2/25/2024 9:33:13 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By towerofpower94: Nice. You guys doing these A1 to VFG things is making me want to do one. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By towerofpower94: Originally Posted By Cowbell: Tried my hand at making a gangster grip today. If you squint, it’s mint. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/259822/IMG_1157_jpeg-3141295.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/259822/IMG_1156_jpeg-3141297.JPG Nice. You guys doing these A1 to VFG things is making me want to do one. It’s an A2 that I took the finger groove off of. Got a little carried away and hand to blend it back in but eh who cares. It works Put some cold blue on my little plate just now so it wouldn’t rust  Attached File |
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USA
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Posted: 2/25/2024 10:11:34 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Brandonbeezy: Awesome, im now excited for this build again! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Brandonbeezy: Originally Posted By Flyit14: I have an unmodified collar at home. I’ll measure it when I get home in a couple days. But I know the collar sleeve as it comes is smaller in ID than both my colt 20” pencil barrel and my brownells 16” pencil barrel. I want to say by about 0.020” at least. But don’t quote me on that. ADCO is currently opening up another collar for a .750 M4 profile barrel for me. So I think either would work just fine. Awesome, im now excited for this build again! Just measured the unmodified 3 piece M4 collar. I get about 0.569 ID. |
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Posted: 2/25/2024 10:22:44 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Flyit14: Just measured the unmodified 3 piece M4 collar. I get about 0.569 ID. Did you get your collar from Ron A.? I'm trying to decide if I should go with the "M4" collar, or the 3 piece Gordon collar (assuming I can get it fitted for my Criterion 12.5"). |
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USA
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Posted: 2/25/2024 11:07:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Flyit14]
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By eddster: Did you get your collar from Ron A.? I'm trying to decide if I should go with the "M4" collar, or the 3 piece Gordon collar (assuming I can get it fitted for my Criterion 12.5"). Well the collar I measured is a 3 piece Gordon from adco. adco is also currently machining the Gordon collar that came with my M4 suppressor. If you’re talking about the regular Allen Engineering style collar then just call Ron and give him the barrel measurements. Much easier that way. Honestly I’d call Ron either way. That way you know what you get will work. Also the “M4” collar indexes off the small step that’s behind the muzzle on an m4 profile barrel. If your barrel doesn’t have that you’ll need the 3 piece Gordon style. Or send the whole barrel somewhere to get the step put in. |
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Posted: 2/26/2024 11:39:28 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Flyit14: Well the collar I measured is a 3 piece Gordon from adco. adco is also currently machining the Gordon collar that came with my M4 suppressor. If you’re talking about the regular Allen Engineering style collar then just call Ron and give him the barrel measurements. Much easier that way. Honestly I’d call Ron either way. That way you know what you get will work. Also the “M4” collar indexes off the small step that’s behind the muzzle on an m4 profile barrel. If your barrel doesn’t have that you’ll need the 3 piece Gordon style. Or send the whole barrel somewhere to get the step put in. Solid information, thanks! I'll probably give Ron a call. |
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Posted: 2/26/2024 11:40:23 AM EDT
[#43]
The can for my Gordy was approved this morning, of course my shop is closed on Mondays
  Attached File |
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Posted: 2/26/2024 2:26:21 PM EDT
[#44]
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Posted: 2/26/2024 2:33:10 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cowbell: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/259822/IMG_1168_jpeg-3142138.JPG I feel attacked 😂 that's a good chunk of my social circle
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Posted: 2/26/2024 10:09:12 PM EDT
[#46]
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Posted: 2/26/2024 10:17:13 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cowbell: Perfect https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/259822/IMG_1171_jpeg-3142566.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/259822/IMG_1169_jpeg-3142567.JPG What is that contraption around your gas tube, sir? |
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Posted: 2/26/2024 10:24:40 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cowbell: Perfect https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/259822/IMG_1171_jpeg-3142566.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/259822/IMG_1169_jpeg-3142567.JPG That looks a lot like the first red dot I ever had back in 2005 |
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Posted: 2/26/2024 10:35:04 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By towerofpower94: What is that contraption around your gas tube, sir? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By towerofpower94: Originally Posted By Cowbell: Perfect https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/259822/IMG_1171_jpeg-3142566.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/259822/IMG_1169_jpeg-3142567.JPG What is that contraption around your gas tube, sir? It’s a PEQ2 barrel mount   Attached File |
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Posted: 2/26/2024 10:35:41 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kalahnikid: That looks a lot like the first red dot I ever had back in 2005 Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kalahnikid: Originally Posted By Cowbell: Perfect https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/259822/IMG_1171_jpeg-3142566.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/259822/IMG_1169_jpeg-3142567.JPG That looks a lot like the first red dot I ever had back in 2005 Good! I wanted it to look old even though it’s brand new
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