@mitsuman47 .... all I know is stainless steel lol, I can ask him for more detail. I took him the set of springs that I didn't stretch to use as his "guide". He's a gun guy and knows what they are for .....

How did you measure the springs? That's noticeably shorter than either set I measured - 1) 180s set with ~2k rds, 2) new, spare set from Brownells 2021-08



Weird, what do the feed ramps look like?

Took the springs out and laid them on my workbench. So no tension on them. How long are your springs? @waz0wski

I didn't compare with a standard AR upper, but they looked fine albeit maybe a bit steep. Can't really recall though.  I'll be back home Friday night and will take pictures of them.

I had previously posted 9" but that was a mistake, double checked used & new springs - 8" & 60 full coils (edited previous comment as well)

Interesting. Thanks.

I just added a note to my ticket with PWS linking this thread, and asking if they changed the spec on the recoil springs.

Measured some new springs I have and compared them to the ones I had in my upper with approx 200-250 rounds on them.

New 7-7/8"
Used 7-3/4"


The angle I took the picture makes the measurements look off a bit. But numbers above are correct.
Attached File

Hoping to take both my BRN-180 Gen II uppers to the range this week.  

I have not had any of the above issues but both of my uppers, a 16" 5.56 and a 10" 300BO, have 4 mags through them so far.

I took my .223 shorty upper to the range this weekend. Every 4th round or so was FTFire, PMC bronze in a Gen 2 pmag. Primer strike, no boom. Drop mag, eject the round, put round back in mag, try again, boom. I was there with a buddy and just put it aside after 19 rounds. Ain’t nobody got time for that with other guns to shoot. I’ll go back solo so I can try to diagnose it and do some more shooting.

I took by BRN-180 upper on a Poverty Pony lower for initiation at a rifle club I'm looking to join. First time out with it. Six rounds, three in each magazine, fire three, reload, fire two, unload, lock the bolt to the rear. Just to see you know how to handle a firearm.

It fired and locked back like it should.

@Brownells_ar15

I finally made it out to the range again to try to troubleshoot my light primer strike issue.

Every few rounds, sometimes every round, the bolt carrier is not going forward all the way. Sometimes it’s barely not closed, sometimes it’s open 1/4 inch. Every time, it causes a light primer strike, no boom. It got to the point where I had to hit the charging handle forward after every shot to make sure it went home. Most of the time it was not all the way forward.

I tried pmc bronze and Speer gold dots in Gen 2 pmags, colt aluminum mags with magpul followers and lancer mags. Nothing worked more than a few rounds before failing. Sometimes the bolt wouldn’t even go all the way forward when I initially charged the thing.

Don’t know if it’s weak recoil springs or the bolt/chamber interface, but something is wrong. Maybe both.

@AR_DIESEL

just curious, what trigger?

Good question, I don’t remember what I put in. Either a mil spec or larue 2 stage. Have to look later.

Thanks for the info, I’ll contact pws

Has this been resolved by anyone?

I have a 16” BRN 180 Gen 2 on an RRA lower with their two stage trigger. The first time I shot it is was fine, but that was a fluke. I forgot a long screwdriver so I had to shoot it on the unsuppressed (U) setting with my suppressor.

On following outings, I found It is unreliable suppressed on the suppressor (S) setting and overgassed with suppressor on the U setting.

I’ve shot about 600 rounds. I only shoot suppressed and want it to cycle reliably on the suppressor setting. On U setting, the bolt slams back (sometimes, on U the bolt locks back just due to recoil).

After filing down the back of the nylon spring guide assembly (see below), on the S setting, the problems still are:
- sometimes bolt won’t lock back with empty mag
- sometimes the bolt won’t go all the way forward
- often the bolt short strokes causing a malfunction

I noticed straight off that the rear takedown pin was super hard to close, as in I needed a nylon hammer to close it, and said hammer plus a punch to drive it open.

I read here to file the back nylon bit of the spring guide down, and that helped both the cycling and the ease of pushing the pin in/out. I can use my fingers to push the pin in, but still need to use a bullet or punch with hand pressure to drive the pin open. I now know that further filing will not help, as I tried the pin after I removed the spring guide assembly. Same level of effort.

All factory ammo: Winchester 55gr M193 and 62gr M855 green tip, federal 55gr XM193x, PPU 75gr and Remington 77gr SMK. I believe I had less failures with the last two, but I used those early on and didn’t want to waste decent ammo on this damn problem.

Lubing with 0w-20 mobile one helped for a ~mag, and then problems returned. All in temps 10°F to 35°F, but damnit, than shouldn’t matter. Wasn’t -40°F!

I’ve disassembled the gas system and cleaned it. Next up is a thorough cleaning. Brownells said to shoot it more to break it in.

Nobody has any updated info on their experiences?

I sent my upper off to PWS, and it came
back still not working after being at their shop for quite some time (several weeks). I sent another message to PWS and they didn't respond for probably over a month. So, unfortunately, I returned the upper to Brownells. I really think stronger recoil springs would help, but I couldn't source any.

I will say that I bought a MK111 after that and really like it. But, I'm missing the folding stock of the BRN. MK111 has run 100% for almost 1000 rounds now.

Thanks!

Yesterday I quickly cleaned the chamber (not that thoroughly), disassembled the bolt, cleaned that and cleaned and lubed the inside of the action. I used light oil Mobil 1 0w-20 and Kidd oil that came with my 10/22 (has a long needle) on the springs & spring guides and everything else.

I also put some MOLY-SLIDE from Neco on select wear spots in the bolt. Including the bottom bit where it slides against the hammer.

Mind you, I used VERY LITTLE of the Moly. Messy.

Anyway, it was 40°F at the range and the piston was on the “S” setting with the same suppressor attached. The rifle cycled 40 rounds of quickly fired M193 Winchester flawlessly!

That’s all the time I had. I plan on opening the rear pin hole on the upper a bit so it’s easier to slide the pin in/out.

Some observations:
- As with all my other tests, I used aluminum OK mags and lancer mags. Both 20 round.

- fully loaded with the bolt closed, I couldn’t really get the Lancer mag to engage the boat catch unless I REALY hammered it. OK mags work fine. I’m not sure what this means and how it might’ve affected early results. Just noting this.

- I’m wondering if me filing the back of the spring guide (progressively over about six different sessions), which slowly reduced the effort to get the rear takedown pin in, reduced some stress on the upper in allowed the bolt to move just a hair more freely. I say this because there was slow improvement during each range trip.

- I guess I’ll find out next winter how big a difference temperature makes with this rifle. Near zero and 40°F is a big variation.

- Finally, perhaps the quick scrub of the chamber and the disassembly, cleaning, and lubing of a bolt made some final difference. Also lightly lubed the mag catch. Nothing was particularly dirty. There was no sticky gunk to be found.

Anyway, if I never report back, that means this happy ending has stayed happy.

Came across this thread while googling the same issue and registered here just to add another data point. It's unfortunate that the "issue" doesn't appear to be resolved or that any more info is gleaned. Currently I've sent it back for a replacement but I'm not sure what will happen as the item is out of stock. Pretty bummed out as I was really looking forward to blasting with this thing; might end up just waiting for the Virtus gen 3.

Well here's the copypasta email to Brownells' gun techs, for what it's worth:

BRN-180S 10" 300BLK + Aero M4E1 lower. Setting #1 no suppressor

Problem: essentially a single shot bolt action rifle, can fire 1st round fine, will never go into battery on 2nd round. Clear gun, start all over. 50 attempts/rounds used

Sequence:
a) Release bolt from hold open or manual charge to load round (successful 90+%)
b) Fire
c) Extract
d) Feeds next round
e) Bolt doesn't go into battery, can't seem to jam the charging handle fwd either. (100% fail rate)
f) Hold bolt, remove mag, extract chambered round, start all over

Troubleshooting steps taken:
a) 4 different 10rd pmags (556), 2 different 10/30 pmags (556) with all combos of round count, 2, 5, 10 etc.
b) 2 different brands of supers. 1 brand of subs
c) removed upper entirely after an instance of the issue and it was still in a 'no battery' state implying the lower has nothing to do with it
d) for some reason can't duplicate the issue when dry firing with manual charging/extracting with snap caps, or live ammo (safety on, no trigger pull)
e) doesn't matter bench shooting or offhand

Feels like something is snagging at the end of the bolt movement, perhaps the rotation of the bolt locking..? Or that there isn't enough oomph (e.g. recoil springs?)/juice/gas to fully lock and close?

Video+pic:
https://imgur.com/a/IxYTr9R

Mine was very similar, with the exception of your sequence step e) above. Mine would always very easily go fully into battery, if I even barely pushed the charging handle forward.

During my troubleshooting, I would stretch the recoil springs a bit, and it would go into battery every time until the springs returned to their original length. Then the issue returned. Usually 10-20 rounds.

I returned my upper to Brownell's after a failed 2 month visit to PWS. Current owners need to find someone who winds springs to make one with the exact same diameter wire, wound to the same coil diameter, with the same number of coils, except that its resting length is 1/2"-1" longer than the factory spring. This will probably shorten the lifespan of the springs, but could make the uppers more reliable with the extra spring pressure.

If I ever hear that this issue is resolved, I'll buy another one. Until then, I'll be on the sideline.

Just want to update that I ended up returning the BRN-180 and bought it again. Had a chance to take the new one to the range today and ran 100 rounds flawlessly.

I'm guessing my issue and the others noted here must have been a bad batch run. Hope it all works out for everyone else.

Looks like Angeles Range?

Has anyone else here had this problem and if so did you also have additional trouble?  I just picked up an upper and have an identical problem, but haven't been able to get to the range yet.