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Posted: 9/12/2013 4:40:18 PM EDT
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I am considering this rifle:
Rifle My issue is I just don't know that much about them...after doing some searching they seem like pretty good stuff...just wondering how they stack up against LWRC..HK..Barrett..etc. I own those guns and am very happy with them but like the looks of the PWS...So I guess I am asking are they well made good quality pieces or no...thanks! |
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Buy it - you won't regret it. I would buy it soon if possible as PWS took a price increase of several hundred dollars, but most of the dealers haven't bumped their prices yet.
I own both an original style Mod 0 PWS MK114 and a brand new Mod 1 MK114. They are light (6.5 pounds) accurate, and they balance amazingly well. The weight is centered (not muzzle heavy) so it shoulders fantastically and feels lively in your hands. The new ones come standard with a brand new proprietary keymod rail, ALG QMS trigger, Magpul MOE furniture, new adjustable gas system, PWS compensator/flash hider, BCM Gunfighter charging handle, Magpul MBUS sights, free float barrel, PWS enhanced buffer tube, and their long stroke piston system. I have experienced no carrier tilt, and the rifle is more accurate than I am. I will admit, I sound like huge fanboy, but I have been extremely impressed with my PWS rifles. Also, weirdly enough, my first one came sighted in perfectly right out of the box with iron sights. I called them to ask about it, and apparently, they just throw the sights on and ship it - no sighting in. I guess I got lucky! :) |
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Love my PWS.. buy it and don't look back!
http://i652.photobucket.com/albums/uu244/tommycanadabucket/PWSMK110MOD0_zps480e4a5a.jpg |
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Quoted:
Love my PWS.. buy it and don't look back! <a href="http://s652.photobucket.com/user/tommycanadabucket/media/PWSMK110MOD0_zps636ce04e.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i652.photobucket.com/albums/uu244/tommycanadabucket/PWSMK110MOD0_zps636ce04e.jpg</a> Nice rifle! |
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I have handled and shot the MK2 Mod 0 rifle. I was fortunate to shoot a match with Todd, one of the owners there. He let us shoot it. It was their full auto demo gun. I never thought a full auto .308 would be so easy to shoot. Although I don't own any PWS rifles, I do use their buffer tubes and their comps. All their stuff is very good quality. And they are good people to send your hard earned money to. If I were looking for another piston gun, I'd definitely go with PWS. I think the PWS is better balanced than my LWRC M6A2. The PWS, even the MK2, is not as front heavy. I think you'll be quite satisfied with a PWS.
One more thing. That long stroke piston system seems to have less punch than the short stroke systems. I'm not saying there's less recoil, but the recoil feels more like a push than a punch. |
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Quoted:
Yes, Primary is up there in the "Cadillac" class of craft builders. They make a novel and innovative buffer tube as well. In the "Cadillac class" - does that mean they use cheap materials that break often and they get the profit from the US government? Or are you trying to say that PWS is good to go? If so, I totally agree with that. 
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Let me start by saying I loved my PWS Mk114 and the first 3k rounds through it were mostly trouble free; except with steel cases. Steel always stuck in the chamber. PWS ended up honing the chamber and I only had 20rds of Wolf to test afterwards but it all shucked out. Up until recently the customer service was great. Sometimes rifles have problems but if the company stands behind the product and fixes it i can handle a couple isolated problems. Here's where it's gone downhill for me. The rifle recently started having bolt over base malfunctions with all mags. Mags aren't the problem. I sent one email to Stacy/PWS CS asking for advice on a remedy. No response. I sent a 2nd email with pictures of the malf about 2 weeks after the first email. No response. Sent a 3rd email. No response. I suspected the rifle was over gassed (Idk why it just started choking) and a $120 Vltor A5 system seems to have fixed this problem but that's not really the point. I think the problem is they've quickly expanded their product line and their once awesome customer service seems to have taken a serious hit. I always said my PWS was the one rifle I'd never sell (I even bought a $350 extra BCG during the scare) but now I'm frustrated and contemplating dumping the POS. there's no way I'd trust my life to this rifle and a $1800 range gun that has a new problem every month is not something I care to own. I welcome any comments or thoughts concerning my experience. I'd link PWS to this but they apparently don't read my emails. |
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Quoted:
Let me start by saying I loved my PWS Mk114 and the first 3k rounds through it were mostly trouble free; except with steel cases. Steel always stuck in the chamber. PWS ended up honing the chamber and I only had 20rds of Wolf to test afterwards but it all shucked out. Up until recently the customer service was great. Sometimes rifles have problems but if the company stands behind the product and fixes it i can handle a couple isolated problems. Here's where it's gone downhill for me. The rifle recently started having bolt over base malfunctions with all mags. Mags aren't the problem. I sent one email to Stacy/PWS CS asking for advice on a remedy. No response. I sent a 2nd email with pictures of the malf about 2 weeks after the first email. No response. Sent a 3rd email. No response. I suspected the rifle was over gassed (Idk why it just started choking) and a $120 Vltor A5 system seems to have fixed this problem but that's not really the point. I think the problem is they've quickly expanded their product line and their once awesome customer service seems to have taken a serious hit. I always said my PWS was the one rifle I'd never sell (I even bought a $350 extra BCG during the scare) but now I'm frustrated and contemplating dumping the POS. there's no way I'd trust my life to this rifle and a $1800 range gun that has a new problem every month is not something I care to own. I welcome any comments or thoughts concerning my experience. I'd link PWS to this but they apparently don't read my emails. Damn..that does not sound good at all..Might have to rethink some things..If their customer service is iffy that changes things for me. |
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They used to have some of the best customer service I'd ever experienced but it's been the total opposite experience for me lately. It could be coincidence but it seems to me that it coincided with their jump to the Mod1 and expansion of their product. I hated to post that because Stacy and Tood were always so accommodating and I think the long stroke design is awesome but my rifle has just had one problem after another. I kept quiet about until now because they were good about communicating with me and fixing the issues. It seems as though I am one of few that has had issues though. |
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Quoted: buys an $1800 rifle. feeds it wolf ammo. Yeah and what of it? Why shouldn't I shoot any steel through my rifles? Did you read on the internet that it'll ruin the rifle or did I just hurt your feelings by saying that my experience with PWS hasn't been too great as of late? I hope this doesn't get the OP's thread off track. I am of the opinion that an $1800 "fighting" rifle should be able to shoot steel ammo and PWS feels the same way. Stacy and I discussed this before I sent the Mk114 back to them. I don't usually shoot steel because I am lazy about scrubbing the chamber but that doesn't mean I am accepting of horribly stuck steel cases. IM inbound whenheavenfell |
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I think he meant that Wold ammo is notorious for being anemic and causing malfunctions in guns designed to feed NATO spec or Milspec ammo. My SCAR16S hated wolf and it will short stroke in many regular AR15s. Also if you shoot Wolf or other steel cased ammo since steel cases do not expand in the chamber when the round is fired they allow carbon to coat the chamber. this will cause FTEs when you go back to brass which will expand in the chamber that is effectively smaller having been coated in carbon residue.
I like Hornady steel match and Bernal steel case but Wolf is usually at least 100 feet per second slower than standard ammo even other Russian steel cased. Does it do this with M80 ball or brass cased 308? |
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My rifle is a 5.56. The short stroking hasn't happened with steel because I don't have any. I shot my last 20rds of Wolf when I got it back from them about 6 months ago. The sticks cases happened with a chamber scrubbed to polish and right when I got the gun so carbon buildup wasn't a problem. Btw: I am new to the site but have been around Ar's for some time and auto loading rifles even longer. That came out wrong the first time  The current bolt over base problem happens with everything up to LC 5.56 M193 and 5.56 TAP 75gr |
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Quoted: Hmm, this is pretty odd. I just ordered one of their new 10.75" uppers, hopefully I don't have these issues. I wonder if the lower or mag catch aren't slightly out of spec so they don't position the mag high enough for the bolt to strip the round from it? Naw it isn't that. Didn't have this problem up until about 5k rounds through the gun or somewhere around there. I've lost track of the round count. I'm sure your rifle will be fine like almost all are. Aside from my problems the rifle is badass. Light for a piston, very well balanced, virtually no recoil (the comp/brake is LOUD and concussive). Cleaning is almost a non issue compared to DI. The Isonite coating is very nice and the slickest coating I've felt. I'm sure my gun is a 1 in 10k lemon. It's the change in customer service that has me worrying I know they're slammed right now but for god's sake hire some extra customer service reps or something. |
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Also forgot to mention it was throwing the empties into the next county at 1 o'clock. The A5 system has it throwing them to about 2 o'clock with much less velocity. The ejection is what led me to believe it was over gassed and the reason I put the A5 on there. If I decide to keep the rifle I am going to try and locate one of the heavier A5 buffers or just try one of Slash's heavier A5 buffers. Edit: also had some heavy and unusual wear on the lugs of that first bolt.
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| Sorry to hear that. We were shooting some PWS's, both mod 0 and mod 1, in some cqc drills this weekend. Between the three of us shooting, I think we have 7 PWS rifles. I don't believe there have ever been any problems with any of these guns so far. As for my own experience, the only malfunction I have ever had with my mod 0 was due to an incorrect-adjusted geissele trigger which was failing to reset. The pws brake is impressive for cqc drills. It allows for accurate and fast follow up shots. |
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Quoted: Sorry to hear that. We were shooting some PWS's, both mod 0 and mod 1, in some cqc drills this weekend. Between the three of us shooting, I think we have 7 PWS rifles. I don't believe there have ever been any problems with any of these guns so far. As for my own experience, the only malfunction I have ever had with my mod 0 was due to an incorrect-adjusted geissele trigger which was failing to reset. The pws brake is impressive for cqc drills. It allows for accurate and fast follow up shots. Yessir that seems to be the typical PWS experience. I'd like to say its been mine. Again, I don't fault them for the issues with the rifle. It happens. I just wish I could've gotten an email reply with some help concerning the most recent problem with my rifle.
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Have you tried calling directly yet? (I may have missed that).
PWS moved into a new building, and with that, lots and lots of operational organization going on. Moving machines, running cat-5 for servers, phone systems, hiring, figuring out production/workflow, setting up QC, CMM's and all the other fun stuff.... I would try calling them directly, and get an RMA or something. The crew over at PWS have always been awesome, but the move they completed was massive, and they are still letting the dust settle there. |
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Quoted: Have you tried calling directly yet? (I may have missed that). PWS moved into a new building, and with that, lots and lots of operational organization going on. Moving machines, running cat-5 for servers, phone systems, hiring, figuring out production/workflow, setting up QC, CMM's and all the other fun stuff.... I would try calling them directly, and get an RMA or something. The crew over at PWS have always been awesome, but the move they completed was massive, and they are still letting the dust settle there. No I haven't and that would certainly be a smart thing to do. I've just always dealt with Stacy and PWS via email with good results. I did not know that they moved either which would certainly complicate things for them. I will give them a call this week and let everyone know what happens. To be honest though I'm not sure if I trust this rifle anymore. It's like it's cursed for me. I forgot to mention that when I sent it back for the stuck cases issue they could not get it to happen. They put Wolf and Tula through it with no sticking. I had every other case stick from 5 different lots of 3 different brands of steel. Who friggin knows. The rifle just hates me I guess. Thanks for the suggestion TZLV.
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Quoted: fires 5k+ rounds through it, makes modifications to rifle, shoots wolf ammo... and then blames the company. *facepalm* Pray tell sir; what modification did I make to the rifle before it had problems? Reading comprehension my friend. I don't really don't appreciate the derogatory comments either. Let's keep our discussion isolated to the IM I sent you. This isn't in keeping with the OP's thread.
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says the one who actively derailed the thread.
you spoke of reading comprehension - both of my posts mentioned what YOU claimed. your implication that reading comprehension was lacking is laughable - as you didn't deny any of it or show where anything was misread or misinterpreted. FAIL. point being - YOU shot wolf, YOU made modifications to it, YOU shot 5k+ rounds through it... hardly a small amount. it's absurd to criticize PWS for not being quickly reactive to one who abused their rifle, but blames them for it. plus, you apparently didn't even try to call them... but made numerous posts about their 'lousy customer service,' instead. wtf. i mentioned your victim complex - and instead of owning up to your actions, you respond with pretending to be the victim of my post. bravo, way to maintain your haughty victim complex. nothing's your own fault/responsibility, right? |
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Let's keep it in the IM's whenheavenfell. I guess I didn't make myself clear. Only 400 to 500 of the first approximately 5k rounds were steel cased ammo. The rest were Lake City M193 and Federal .223 55gr. I only recently made the first and only modification to the rifle which was the Vltor A5. Thus far it has solved the bolt over base failures but I've only put about 150rds of M193 through it since the install. Again, I do not blame PWS for my rifles problems. I think they make great products and I just happened to get a lemon or what have you. I am merely concerned that my last 3 emails over the past couple of months haven't solicited a response. Take it as you will. I'll be calling them this week to try and get some help over the phone.
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Does PWS advise against steel cased ammo? I shoot a lot of steel cased ammo and don't usually have any issues, when I do I just clean the chamber and drive on. I have never seen steel break a rifle. Unless the facepalm was because wolf is under powered and could have cause cycling issues I don't understand the issue. I would not use it to diagnose the cause of a malfunction but for blasting or training I see its value as long as the gun runs it well enough.
Its pretty obvious that hes just frustrated about his rifle not feeding. He made an attempt after the malfunctions to address it with the Vltor A5 system which I don't think is really a bad idea if the rifle was doing what he says. I would have called PWS for advice or technical support personally but I don't think he deserves to be belittles quite as much has he has been. |
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Quoted: Green, I have a question for ya!!!! Did your rifle have the original PWS billet buffer tube on it? The one with the flutes, and QD milled in?? No PWS says steel is fine in their rifles just like any other Ar15. It's not the best option of course but it doesn't hurt anything. Thanks for the support btw Nate. I'm not sure what whenheavenfell's deal is. I don't really understand why he seems to think I'm a blathering idiot because I ran some steel through the rifle. To TZLV: yup it's the original fluted billet tube and I'm guessing the follow up to that question is about the silicon recoil buffer piece in the ass end of the tube. It's still in place and doesn't seem to be loose as far as I can tell.
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Yup, that's what I was going to ask... As long as it's not unseating, folding over and binding, or taking up space that the buffer needs, I think it should be fine. However if I remember correctly, PWS put out a statement about it.
Keep us updated on what happens |
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Quoted:
Let's keep it in the IM's whenheavenfell. Quoted:
Let's keep it in the IM's whenheavenfell. says the one who posted it here. posted it in a different thread. and keeps posting. if you truly wanted to keep it private, you wouldn't have not only made it public... BUT KEPT RESPONDING IN PUBLIC. IE: the above post. hypocrite. Quoted:I guess I didn't make myself clear. Only 400 to 500 of the first approximately 5k rounds were steel cased ammo. The rest were Lake City M193 and Federal .223 55gr. I only recently made the first and only modification to the rifle which was the Vltor A5. Thus far it has solved the bolt over base failures but I've only put about 150rds of M193 through it since the install. ...so you do or do not have a current problem with your rifle? if you changed the buffer and it's been fine - WHY ARE YOU MAKING SUCH A BIG DEAL ABOUT THIS? holy crap. Quoted:
Again, I do not blame PWS for my rifles problems. I think they make great products and I just happened to get a lemon or what have you. I am merely concerned that my last 3 emails over the past couple of months haven't solicited a response. Take it as you will. I'll be calling them this week to try and get some help over the phone. your first sentence is contradicted by the second sentence, as well as prior statements you've made. either you think it's a lemon or you don't. edit: Quoted:I'm not sure what whenheavenfell's deal is. I don't really understand why he seems to think I'm a blathering idiot because I ran some steel through the rifle. 1. i didn't call you a blathering idiot. i sure won't deny that you're one, however... 2. i criticized you for more than running some steel through it. perhaps your reading comprehension is as lousy as your responsibility - as i gave a detailed list in my last post. you made numerous posts about this in numerous threads... BEFORE EVEN CALLING PWS. 3. another poster already explained SOME (hardly all) of the problems that wolf tends to cause. because you're such a sport and continuing this trainwreck (the state of this thread), while acting as if it's not your own doing - i'll throw you another bone - steel ammo degrades the barrel/chamber substantially more than brass. as per http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/ so yes, getting a "$1800" rifle and shooting shit ammo out of it can be rather questionable, depending on the situation. if you're bitching about the price of the rifle, you probably shouldn't use the cheapest ammo you can find... As indicated by accuracy testing, the steel cased/bimetal jacketed ammunition caused accelerated wear to the inside of their respective bores. While the barrel of the Federal carbine had plenty of life left, even after 10,000 rounds at extremely high rates of fire, the Wolf and Brown Bear barrels were subjected to the same rates of fire and were completely “shot out” by 6,000 rounds.
At the end of the test, the chrome lining of the Wolf and Brown Bear barrels was almost gone from the throat forward, and the barrels had effectively become smoothbores, with the rifling near the muzzles acting only as a mild suggestion on the projectiles. A throat erosion gauge could be dropped into the bore from the muzzle end with absolutely no resistance. |
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Quoted: Yup, that's what I was going to ask... As long as it's not unseating, folding over and binding, or taking up space that the buffer needs, I think it should be fine. However if I remember correctly, PWS put out a statement about it. Keep us updated on what happens Will do TZLV. Thanks for the constructive advice.
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There is a reason steel cased ammo can be a bigger problem in AR piston guns.
By its nature steel cases do not expand and contract like brass. Because DI guns allow the carbon to blow into the BCG and action area less is blown into the chamber. This does not happen with piston guns. Instead all the carbon is blocked by the piston and the bolt face so it can fall around the case that did not expand as much as the brass case. Many piston owners have posted that after shooting steel for 500 or so rounds they had brass cases stick in the chamber. A thorough cleaning of the chamber cured this and the guns functioned fine (at least from what I remember of those that posted back) As a guess; if there is any sticking of a fired case, even for a short time, the pressure bleeding off in the relief hole of the piston cylinder/tube (Notice the carbon on your fingers when holding the rail?) might diminish the force required to move the BCG back enough to pick up the next round causing what sounds like your problem. Maybe? This is certainly not over gassing for which if anything a PWS Mod0 is known to be but under gassing. I recommend you do a extensive cleaning of the chamber with a good carbon remover and make sure the piston tube/cylinder is also cleaned (I believe a 40cal brush is the right size) It is always easier to be an arm chair trouble shooter and I hope I don't sound like one and parts of what I am conveying is personal experience and what others have done to cure problems and may not be what is causing your problem. Hopefully PWS can make contact with you and resolve this if you cannot yourself. If you are in Central Florida you can come to my gun club in Palm Bay and I will be happy to help you trouble shoot this although I can only guarantee I will try and may not be able to resolve this IM me if you want to try that and you can shoot the Mod1 while we are at the range Wulfmann |
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Thanks Wulfmann but as I stated earlier the problem with steel cases sticking happened with the chamber scrubbed to a shine. The first time it happened was when the rifle was new and only had about 100rds of brass through it. Went to try steel and the first case stuck so bad I had to use a cleaning rod and mallet to whack it out. Several times I scrubbed the chamber and tried steel from a different lot with the same result. I finally filled out an RMA and sent it in. PWS honed the chamber with a stone hone and that fixed the problem. No more stuck cases. I appreciate all the advice from everyone but for the time being the rifle is functioning. I'm not a a trained gunsmith but based on my rifle's ejection I'd say it is definitely over gassed. The A5's heavier buffer and rifle spring seem to have corrected the current problem. I fully understand my case is the exception and I didn't intend to ruffle anyone's feathers or de-rail the OP's thread into a "my gun doesn't work and poor me" thread. The OP was asking about PWS and I felt compelled to relate my recent experience. I am wrong in that I should have tried calling PWs. I've always dealt with Stacy via email in the past and he always gave quick replies. I didn't know they moved however and I'm guessing that my emails just got lost in the shuffle. Again, I didn't mean to start a shit storm. Just telling my particular experience. Sorry for the derailment OP. If anyone else would like to leave me a comment please do so through IM or email. |
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Quoted: Sounds like over gassing and bolt bounce? Interested in what you find out. Stacey agreed with me (and you) that it sounds like an over gassed issue but given that it seems to be working with the A5 system we both thought it best to leave it alone and see what happens. The only other thing I'm going to try is one of Slash's heavier A5 buffers to see if that'll take it down even more. It's still kickin them empties out hard to around 2 o'clock so I think there is still room for improvement. The only thing that made me scratch my head a little was why the problem just now manifested after thousands of rounds. Here's my theory. Up until recently I had only shot weaker .223 out of it and that, coupled with the tight chamber slightly delaying extraction, was keeping the carrier's velocity just low enough to avoid the BOB malfunction.
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