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Posted: 3/12/2012 4:30:46 PM EDT
| Just had a few questions, I am thinking of building a gas piston rifle, wanting a carbine length rifle. As far as handguards go, will any handguard work with a gas piston system? Which gas piston systems are preferred and for what reasons? |
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i have no experience with free float quad rails and such, but i would think any free floating handguard/rail will fit over any gas block that doesnt have the built in front sight. for example the Adams Arms gas block. the 2 piece traditional cylinder handguards and the moe handguards probably wouldnt work b/c they need to be clamped in between the handguard cap and delta ring.
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In a new build I'd avoid the carbine length system if possible because the piston systems are a kludge. They seem to work better with longer distances between the upper receiver and gas block.
Recall there's a kink in the gas tube in the standard system as the hole in the front sight does not match the height of the hole in the receiver. Longer operating rod in a piston system seems to handle this difference better than a short one. May be slight, but better operation seems to be the norm. Both my LWRC carbines are "mid length." Both have been completely reliable. With a 16" barrel a mid length handguard is more esthetically pleasing anyway. Not all piston systems will handle standard handguards. My LWRC M6-SL has "standard" mid length Magpul handguards. My Osprey piston conversion on my M4 Carbine has special, gigantic Osprey provided handguards although I'm informed the Magpuls can be modified to fit. –– Chuck |
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Figuring out which piston system you want to go with will narrow your answers.
I am a huge fan of the Adams Arms piston system. The kit comes with handguards and Magpul MOE handguards work also. If you want to use a free float rail, I recommend using a two piece rail system (Samson MFG, highly rated) so that the area behind the gas block can be cleaned without having to remove the gas block. Let me know if you have any more questions, ive built piston systems from pistol to rifle length. Fatkid |
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Not all piston systems will handle standard handguards. My LWRC M6-SL has "standard" mid length Magpul handguards. My Osprey piston conversion on my M4 Carbine has special, gigantic Osprey provided handguards although I'm informed the Magpuls can be modified to fit. –– Chuck Magpul new MOE HG fits osprey's without any modification. They are really the must-handguard for Osprey when using non-free float HG |
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Ive never built an AR before (my current gun is a piston gun but not an ar and I didnt build it), so would it be wiser to built a regular AR and then convert over later if I feel like It would be something I would want to do. If you are comfortable building an AR then there's no reason you shouldn't be comfortable building a piston AR. I prefer Osprey as it is super simple to install but the AA kits get a lot of love here too. Either will work well, Both have HGs that work/won't work. Just look around the site here and you'll find plenty of recommendations. I use the Osprey and MagPul MOEs and couldn't be happier. |
| I wouldnt say that im comfortable, but I can stumble my way through, I am pretty mechanically inclined in most aspects (use to modify cars and I am an aircraft mechanic) so that part isnt too bad if I have some instructions and such. The osprey kit I see a lot on here along with the AA, whats the main difference between the two, from my understanding the osprey kit is a retrofit kit? what does this mean I am still trying to understand all the language when it comes to rifle building. |
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Osprey: basically remove the gas tube, keeping the di gas block and install the piston kit, replace the bcg. they have a really nice how to video on their website. from start to finish it took the guy about 60 sec to do the conversion.
Adam Arms: remove the gas tube and remove the di gas block, install the AA gas block, install the piston, and replace the bcg. |
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The Osprey is just as easy to install as their website video. If you've ever removed the gas tube on this rifle it's even easiere.
You may have some slight difficulty on an old rifle. My 20+ year old M4 barrel needed the hole in the front sight forging cleaned out with carbon cleaner and a bore brush . No permanent alteration. You can convert back to DI just as easily. –– Chuck |
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In a new build I'd avoid the carbine length system if possible because the piston systems are a kludge. They seem to work better with longer distances between the upper receiver and gas block. Recall there's a kink in the gas tube in the standard system as the hole in the front sight does not match the height of the hole in the receiver. Longer operating rod in a piston system seems to handle this difference better than a short one. May be slight, but better operation seems to be the norm. Both my LWRC carbines are "mid length." Both have been completely reliable. With a 16" barrel a mid length handguard is more esthetically pleasing anyway. Not all piston systems will handle standard handguards. My LWRC M6-SL has "standard" mid length Magpul handguards. My Osprey piston conversion on my M4 Carbine has special, gigantic Osprey provided handguards although I'm informed the Magpuls can be modified to fit. –– Chuck What is a "kludge" ? , carbine piston systems work fine, Adams Arms is a prime example. |
Geez, you can't look up a word in the dictionary? 
Kludge (1). Kludge (2). Many piston systems work fine. I have a pair of LWRC Carbines... –– Chuck |
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Geez, you can't look up a word in the dictionary?
Kludge (1). Kludge (2). Many pistol systems work fine. I have a pair of LWRC Carbines... –– Chuck Hah ! i love it , i thought at first it was just something you made up,( i watch O'Reilly enough to know better. ) We use the term "work around " at work all the time , now i can impress the boss with "Kludge". 
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There's absolutely no advantage to AA vs. Osprey. I'd say the advantage goes to Osprey for ease of installation and reversal (if you ever wanted to but you won't). But for reliability they are par.
They are both reliable but so is DI. Pistons are not the end-all, be-all AR systems; they are an optional system that offer you a choice. Yes, they tend to run cleaner in the chamber area but still require you to clean them on occasion, just like any firearm. Don't get me wrong, once I installed my first piston system I was sold. Given proper installation and maintenance they are every bit as reliable as DI and do have a slight advantage with cleanliness. Just don't expect miracles out of them. |
| I just put the CMMG piston kit on my CMMG rifle. I pretty much emptied a mag and took the bolt out and held it in my hand...something I wouldn't even try with the DI system. I haven't had any problems with that kit. I'm running a MI Gen 2 Drop-In which is designed for piston systems. The hardest part I had with the entire install was driving the pins out of the front sight block and I had to break out a torch. After that it was just a simple bolt up of the new gas block. Like I said, so far no problems but currently I don't think 45 rounds qualifies as a true problem-free setup even though some of the rounds I fired were .223 and others were 5.56. |
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Go with Adams Arms!!!! Not only are their carbine length piston uppers very accurate but they are very reliable and cost effective. As for hand guards I went with a Magpul MOE hand guard because I'm just not a huge fan of the rail systems for looks alone. Yes they look good and all but if you have no need for such things as lazers, flashlights, and other parts that are just going to make your rifle heavier then what's the point. On the other hand I am currently building another AA gas piston rifle for a friend and I'm using a Midwest Industries Gen 2 Drop in quad rail. Not only is this a very afordable rail system but it also would wells with most if not all gas piston driven rifles. Hope my comments could help in you decision.
-Matt |
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Quoted:
Just had a few questions, I am thinking of building a gas piston rifle, wanting a carbine length rifle. As far as handguards go, will any handguard work with a gas piston system? Which gas piston systems are preferred and for what reasons? According to the manufacture these ABARMS Hand Guards work with all known piston systems. I have one of each type, they work well with the osprey kits. They have a top railed version (mod1) that will accommodate forward mounted optics with no spacer for co witness, and a none railed version (LTF) that is the same top plane as the flat top upper. here is a link where I got mine, with free shipping. LINK I prefer the LTF model myself - good luck with the build. |
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