AR Sponsor
Posted: 3/11/2012 11:31:22 AM EDT
| Does anyone have any experience with the RRA PDS? I particularly like the stock design but the rifle has to work first. Knowledgeable responses of any sort appreciated. |
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Here's a thread on the RRA I started nearly a year ago:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_126/535883_Any_Now_for_Something_Completely_Different___Rock_River_PDS.html |
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Many thanks for the link. I searched for anything including Rock River and turned up nothing. Next time I'll try and search the archives as well.
What is you bottom line overall impression of this rifle? I did not pick that up at all from the thread. Seemed like there were some positives and some negatives noted but nothing overall. Based only on that thread the Stag 8 Plus is seeming like a better choice. Thanks in advance. Sneed |
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I'd be interested in some better pics.
How does the piston work, i didn't see the typical piston on top of the carrier. What were the final impressions this gun made on you? Have not seen these, carrier does look similiar to the Daewoo but the piston is different, I guess? |
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I STRONGLY suggest that you STAY AWAY from Rock River Arms and their PDS rifle!
I thought the folding stock on an AR was amazing and bought one over a year ago. My plan was to convert it to a SBR and add a suppressor. When I bought it RRA stated that it could not be used with a suppressor and that a modified gas block was “2 weeks away”. I went ahead and bought it. Fast forward to today and still nothing. I started calling RRA every month and kept being told “any day now”. After six months it became “we’re working on it”. Now they don’t even answer the question. I got fed up with this and had my dealer call them, hoping they would give him some inside information or at least a third party solution. They told him (on a speakerphone so that I could hear) that they made a mistake during the development of the rifle and to tell their customer not to “hold their breath” waiting for a fix, that it's not even being taken seriously in-house. I called them myself the next day to see if someone would tell me the same. All I was told was that “we’re working on it”. Not even the courtesy of the truth. I then found this forum thread (http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_122/515302_.html&page=4&anc=bottom#bottom) filled with promises from Steve from RRA and a bunch of angry and frustrated replies from people just like me that were either sold something they could not use or are waiting for RRA to fulfill promises. I understand that RRA is backlogged with orders for new rifles, but what about their existing customer base? Are we to be discarded for no reason other than convenience and new cash? AR15.com is just one forum where I have found numerous complaints about RRA. I thought I was just an anomaly, but look around and you’ll see that there are an awful lot of upset customers; enough that had I seen it before I bought the rifle, I would have made a different choice. It looks like RRA’s marketing division wrote checks its R&D can’t cash. At least level with your customers: are these things ever going to be fixed/produced? If not, those that bought your products under false pretenses deserve some compensation. I, for instance, am stuck with worthless un-suppressable AR. I did the SBR conversion under a trust and consequently had the trust name engraved on the lower. So now I am stuck with a rifle that went through the huge hassle of getting a tax stamp and buying/installing a 10.5” barrel that, to me, is utterly useless and has no resale value. Who wants an engraved rifle? Bottom line: until RRA can fulfill their promises, STAY AWAY from them! It WILL happen to you! You WILL need their support and they WON’T stand behind their products! |
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Quoted:
Does anyone have any experience with the RRA PDS? I particularly like the stock design but the rifle has to work first. Knowledgeable responses of any sort appreciated. I would say that Dan9591 gave you all the info you would need. I, too, was very interested in this rifle at one point. I read Melvin's review (which was very thorough and well written BTW). The PDS may be a decent rifle depending on what you are wanting. I, however, am like Dan. I'm looking for a SBR that I can run suppressed. The PDS is neither of those. I contacted RRA many many months ago and asked them about a short-barrel version of the weapon. I was told "We're working on it," which appears to be an almost automatic response from them. No SBR version has showed up on their website. If you are in love with the folding stock and are fine with a longer barrel I would say track one down that you can shoot. Make sure you like it. As for me, I'm steering clear. I've already settled on a different rifle. Now I'm just in saving mode. |
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Quoted:
Does anyone have any experience with the RRA PDS? I particularly like the stock design but the rifle has to work first. Knowledgeable responses of any sort appreciated. I did a review this year of one. Shoots like a champ. 
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_38/214743_RRA_PDS_Rifle_test__video_.html |
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I do have to agree with AMUshooter10, though. It really does shoot nice. The recoil isn't better or worse than a standard AR. It's different. I would say it's faster, if that makes any sense... I just wish I could make it quieter... if only there was some sort of magical device that would "silence" or "suppress" the sound... Wait a minute, there is such a device! Too bad it won't work on this rifle like Rock River Arms PROMISED it would over a year ago! |
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Quoted:
I do have to agree with AMUshooter10, though. It really does shoot nice. The recoil isn't better or worse than a standard AR. It's different. I would say it's faster, if that makes any sense... I just wish I could make it quieter... if only there was some sort of magical device that would "silence" or "suppress" the sound... Wait a minute, there is such a device! Too bad it won't work on this rifle like Rock River Arms PROMISED it would over a year ago! If I held my breath waiting for some of their stuff to come out when they said, I would have died in 2006 with the .40cal.  Great Co. though.
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The PDS is available as a pistol, as a complete SBR, and as a 16" barreled-rifle. All of which work in their originally conceived configurations.
We are working on a method of suppressing all models of the PDS platform, but it isn't the highest priority project that we are currently working on. The stock adaptor assembly is numebred, priced, etc...but not released for sale for reaosns other than we don't want to take your money in exchange for a product. That's why we're here, but sometimes other criteria apply and have to be taken into consideration. Sorry, but it's the truth. We never cataloged the stock kit nor told anyone to buy a PDS pistol and to SBR it before there was anything available for them to stock it. We have indicated that we will release it as soon as certain concerns (both by ourselves and others) are addressed. That, unfortunately, is taking far longer than anyone at RRA foresaw. I am certain that we will be able to offer the stock kits at some point, but rather than give a bogus date and then not be able to meet it for the same reasons it isn't released now, we'll just say that as soon as it is made available, it will be on the RRA website (with some restrictions) and I'll post the information in the RRA Industry Forum here on ARFCOM. Thanks. Steve/RRA |
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First of all, thank you for at least acknowledging this thread, Steve.
Second, let’s separate the two issues. Even though I did not mention it in this thread, I understand what you mean about the stock kit. If it was never suggested to be offered for sale then those that “assumed” it would have no right to be upset when it doesn’t appear. Now, let’s get to the real issue: The issue that I (and many others) have is that I bought a rifle with the EXPRESSED ADVICE from RRA that a suppressor capable regulator was only “weeks” away. That was well over a year ago. This is quite different from assuming anything. “The PDS is available as a pistol, as a complete SBR, and as a 16" barreled-rifle. All of which work in their originally conceived configurations.” -Yes, but they were advertised as suppressable. “We are working on a method of suppressing all models of the PDS platform, but it isn't the highest priority project that we are currently working on.” -This isn’t comforting news to those of us that bought it with the EXPRESSED ADVICE that a suppressor capable regulator was weeks away. You devoted a single sentence to the real issue while covering up everything else with the not-for-sale-part rhetoric that has already been beaten to death. Seems like you’re trying to shift attention away from the real point… Let’s put it this way: I am selling a new car. It costs $50,000. Buy it now and I promise that in the near future I will release a kit for it and it will FLY. Really, I promise. Cross my heart. I’m going to sell a ton of them. Why not? We have consumer protection laws in this country. Buyers are entitled to their money back if a manufacturer fails to deliver on their promises. It’s a foundation of American consumerism. Now let’s assume that quite a while has passed and, of course, your car isn’t flying. You call me up to ask about it and I say, “Well, some new things have come up and, to be honest, it’s no longer important to us. We have new interests.” So now you’re sitting on a car that will not fly and a manufacturer that, for all intents and purposes, has abandoned you like a four year old abandons a favorite old toy when given a new one. You were sold something that wasn’t what was advertised. You were sold a lie. If this isn’t a classic bait-and-switch, I don’t know what is. The way I (and many others) see it is RRA has two choices: 1.Pick a date when the regulator will be available and stick to it. -OR- 2.Admit that it will never be available and offer some kind of compensation to those of us that bought a rifle that is unable to perform as promised. I don't think this is an unreasonable request. This could be a real turning point both for RRA and their customers. You could either finish the great project you started and end up with a world-class product or upset a whole lot of people that will tirelessly tell everyone they know how RRA misled them. As my kids would say “Make with the pony!” |
| WOW, I just bought my FIRST AR15 yesterday...a RRA!!!! I was soooo excited to come here and tell everyone about it!!!! The dealer I worked with was very nice, has a great reputation and DID NOT try to sell me this rifle. He showed me lots of different rifles from lots of different manufacturers. I'd always heard good things about RRA and I LOVED this particular AR...chromed throughout, 1:9 twist, collapsable stock, flip up sights, etc., everything I was looking for. I had thought about getting a piston system (which this one does not have), but loved the look of this particular AR. Also, by getting a gas system I saved enough to get a new Glock 21 gen 4 (full sized .45), which I had also been wanting, but didn't know the gen 4 had already come out. Did I really screw up? They'd probably let me return it and exchange it for something else. What do you guys think I should do? Any advice appreciated! |
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WOW, I just bought my FIRST AR15 yesterday...a RRA!!!! I was soooo excited to come here and tell everyone about it!!!! The dealer I worked with was very nice, has a great reputation and DID NOT try to sell me this rifle. He showed me lots of different rifles from lots of different manufacturers. I'd always heard good things about RRA and I LOVED this particular AR...chromed throughout, 1:9 twist, collapsable stock, flip up sights, etc., everything I was looking for. I had thought about getting a piston system (which this one does not have), but loved the look of this particular AR. Also, by getting a gas system I saved enough to get a new Glock 21 gen 4 (full sized .45), which I had also been wanting, but didn't know the gen 4 had already come out. Did I really screw up? They'd probably let me return it and exchange it for something else. What do you guys think I should do? Any advice appreciated! So you bought a gen 4 but didn't know there was a gen 4 available to buy? I don't get your question. 
Both the guns you got are good guns. I am not a fan of the Gen 4 stuff from Glock though. But they all go bang.
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Did I really screw up? They'd probably let me return it and exchange it for something else. What do you guys think I should do? Any advice appreciated! There is nothing wrong with RRA's DI guns. They build a good product for a good price. This thread is focusing specifically on the RRA PDS rifle, which is a different animal entirely. You should feel just fine about your purchase. |
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The PDS is available as a pistol, as a complete SBR, and as a 16" barreled-rifle. All of which work in their originally conceived configurations. Steve/RRA Out of curiosity, I cannot find anything on your website referencing a SBR version of the PDS. Maybe my internet skills just suck. |
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First of all, thank you for at least acknowledging this thread, Steve. Second, let’s separate the two issues. Even though I did not mention it in this thread, I understand what you mean about the stock kit. If it was never suggested to be offered for sale then those that “assumed” it would have no right to be upset when it doesn’t appear. Now, let’s get to the real issue: The issue that I (and many others) have is that I bought a rifle with the EXPRESSED ADVICE from RRA that a suppressor capable regulator was only “weeks” away. That was well over a year ago. This is quite different from assuming anything. “The PDS is available as a pistol, as a complete SBR, and as a 16" barreled-rifle. All of which work in their originally conceived configurations.” -Yes, but they were advertised as suppressable. “We are working on a method of suppressing all models of the PDS platform, but it isn't the highest priority project that we are currently working on.” -This isn’t comforting news to those of us that bought it with the EXPRESSED ADVICE that a suppressor capable regulator was weeks away. You devoted a single sentence to the real issue while covering up everything else with the not-for-sale-part rhetoric that has already been beaten to death. Seems like you’re trying to shift attention away from the real point… Let’s put it this way: I am selling a new car. It costs $50,000. Buy it now and I promise that in the near future I will release a kit for it and it will FLY. Really, I promise. Cross my heart. I’m going to sell a ton of them. Why not? We have consumer protection laws in this country. Buyers are entitled to their money back if a manufacturer fails to deliver on their promises. It’s a foundation of American consumerism. Now let’s assume that quite a while has passed and, of course, your car isn’t flying. You call me up to ask about it and I say, “Well, some new things have come up and, to be honest, it’s no longer important to us. We have new interests.” So now you’re sitting on a car that will not fly and a manufacturer that, for all intents and purposes, has abandoned you like a four year old abandons a favorite old toy when given a new one. You were sold something that wasn’t what was advertised. You were sold a lie. If this isn’t a classic bait-and-switch, I don’t know what is. The way I (and many others) see it is RRA has two choices: 1.Pick a date when the regulator will be available and stick to it. -OR- 2.Admit that it will never be available and offer some kind of compensation to those of us that bought a rifle that is unable to perform as promised. I don't think this is an unreasonable request. This could be a real turning point both for RRA and their customers. You could either finish the great project you started and end up with a world-class product or upset a whole lot of people that will tirelessly tell everyone they know how RRA misled them. As my kids would say “Make with the pony!” tWe've never advertised it as "suppressable". We are working on making it such due to a moderate consumer demand that was not a significant consideration during the initial design phase. We're rifle and pistol makers, not suppressort authorities. We're learning from some who are, but results are mixed so far and we continue to work and learn. In the mean time, we are also pursuing other projects as well, which also require engineering time. The PDS will be suppressable at some point, but I can't tell you exactly when or how, yet. Not ducking any issue or promising you anything... Steve/RRA |
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...And Dan sells his LAR-PDS. I've had enough. No more RRA for me. An I will make sure the same goes for everyone I know. Let me know what you want for it. I know every post you made on this website has been about that gun so no need for pictures just shoot me a price. 
Thanks
........And Dan goes back to trolling. |
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I just sold it last night to someone that does not intent to run it suppressed. We still haven’t sealed the deal. I need to meet him on Friday, May 11th. If he’s a no-show I’ll let you know.
I’m selling it for $1850 with a set of magpul BUIS and a Nordic Components collapsible stock (If I don't sell the stock first... I have it listed on gunbroker...). The rifle is the model with the tri-rail hand guard. You can check out the stock here: http://shop.nordiccomp.com/NC-Compact-Retractable-Butt-Stock-STK-CRS-BRS.htm. The stock is great; I just need to have an adapter made to fit it to the rifle. Check it out: http://www.flickr.com/photos/42618682@N05/sets/72157629536245636/ I was going to have ADCO cut the barrel down to 10.5”, just pass the gas block and rails. since RRA does not sell them separately and it seems the gas hole is different enough on it to make an after-market barrel difficult to find. This part isn’t a knock against RRA. They never stated they would offer barrels for it and I never ranted about it. I understood that part going in. The idea was for an MP5 style SBR. Which, with a shorter, suppressed barrel and an HK-style stock would have been bad-ass. I’ll keep you updated on my buyer. Just don’t expect to ever fire this rifle suppressed and pray that you never need RRA’s support… |
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I just sold it last night to someone that does not intent to run it suppressed. We still haven’t sealed the deal. I need to meet him on Friday, May 11th. If he’s a no-show I’ll let you know. I’m selling it for $1850 with a set of magpul BUIS and a Nordic Components collapsible stock (If I don't sell the stock first... I have it listed on gunbroker...). The rifle is the model with the tri-rail hand guard. You can check out the stock here: http://shop.nordiccomp.com/NC-Compact-Retractable-Butt-Stock-STK-CRS-BRS.htm. The stock is great; I just need to have an adapter made to fit it to the rifle. Check it out: http://www.flickr.com/photos/42618682@N05/sets/72157629536245636/ I was going to have ADCO cut the barrel down to 10.5”, just pass the gas block and rails. since RRA does not sell them separately and it seems the gas hole is different enough on it to make an after-market barrel difficult to find. This part isn’t a knock against RRA. They never stated they would offer barrels for it and I never ranted about it. I understood that part going in. The idea was for an MP5 style SBR. Which, with a shorter, suppressed barrel and an HK-style stock would have been bad-ass. I’ll keep you updated on my buyer. Just don’t expect to ever fire this rifle suppressed and pray that you never need RRA’s support… So who is the dealer you sold your Form 1 SBR to? Or was it a local sale? Are you sure you can get $1850 for a rifle with your trust information engraved on it? Ir is it a SBR? I can't remember, your story changes daily. Where is the link to your gunbroker auction? Feel free to IM me the link so I can post it here. Since you lie so much you can't keep your story straight your opinion is 110% worthless to me now. As you said here: Quoted:
I STRONGLY suggest that you STAY AWAY from Rock River Arms and their PDS rifle! I thought the folding stock on an AR was amazing (and it really is!) and bought one over a year ago. My plan was to convert it to a SBR and add a suppressor. When I bought it RRA stated that it could not be used with a suppressor and that a modified gas block was “2 weeks away”. I went ahead and bought it. Fast forward to today and still nothing. I started calling RRA every month and kept being told “any day now”. After six months it became “we’re working on it”. Now they don’t even answer the question. I got fed up with this and had my dealer call them, hoping they would give him some inside information or at least a third party solution. They told him (on a speakerphone so that I could hear) that they made a mistake during the development of the rifle and to tell their customer not to “hold their breath” waiting for a fix, that it's not even being taken seriously in-house. I called them myself the next day to see if someone would tell me the same. All I was told was that “we’re working on it”. Not even the courtesy of the truth. I then found this forum thread (http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_122/515302_.html&page=4&anc=bottom#bottom) filled with promises from Steve from RRA and a bunch of angry and frustrated replies from people just like me that were either sold something they could not use or are waiting for RRA to fulfill promises. I understand that RRA is backlogged with orders for new rifles, but what about their existing customer base? Are we to be discarded for no reason other than convenience and new cash? AR15.com is just one forum where I have found numerous complaints about RRA. I thought I was just an anomaly, but look around and you’ll see that there are an awful lot of upset customers; enough that had I seen it before I bought the rifle, I would have made a different choice. It looks like RRA’s marketing division wrote checks its R&D can’t cash. At least level with your customers: are these things ever going to be fixed/produced? If not, those that bought your products under false pretenses deserve some compensation. I, for instance, am stuck with worthless un-suppressable AR. I did the SBR conversion under a trust and consequently had the trust name engraved on the lower. So now I am stuck with a rifle that went through the huge hassle of getting a tax stamp and buying/installing a 10.5” barrel that, to me, is utterly useless and has no resale value. Who wants an engraved rifle? So since you have proved you are a lying sack of shit, how about you pack up your troll bag and go hang out under some other bridge.
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