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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - The Guardian Trauma Kit (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 3/28/2007 4:13:16 AM EDT
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Announcing the commercial debut of The Guardian, a portable trauma kit designed to deal with gunshot wounds and other penetrating injuries requiring immediate treatment not possible with standard first aid kits. This is not a general purpose first aid kit. It contains specialized supplies and tools to deal with severe trauma in field and combat situations. Everything you need is in one MOLLE-compatible bag, designed to be worn, not left behind. In addition to a fully stocked kit, The Guardian also includes an 80 minute DVD detailing the use of the kit, and a set of laminated Quik-Ref field cards with step-by-step instructions on use of major kit components. Here is the bag - approximately 7x7x4""  Here is a pic of the primary contents:  The Guardian was designed by an active duty Marine field medic who saw a need for a personally-carried kit of supplies for everyone going into harms way. Seconds count when a serious injury is sustained, and having a casualty wearing the supplies needed to keep him viable until medivac comes can be the difference. We were proud to be asked to help get these into the hands of deployed and deploying troops and will continue to do that when possible. As we worked with The Guardian, we saw a lot of commercial applications. Law enforcement officers, departments, and other agencies are now using these kits and more inquiries come in every day. Range managers, gun club officials, and safety officers all see the benefit of planning for accidents, while doing everything they already do to avoid them. And individuals, avid shooters who spend time on a range, in the field, anywhere guns are carried and used, all see the need to have a little "insurance" on hand. The Guardian retails for $279.95, and we are offering them on AR15.com for an introductory price of $249.95 delivered. This is a limited time offer, and will expire on May 31st. We are also offering the training DVD separately for $29.95 + S&H for those who have already assembled a full kit and would like to have the benefit of some organized guidance on appropriate use. Pricing for departmental and agency purchases available on request. Dealer inquiries welcome. |
lol paule there are no Marine field medics. Philip Ross developed this kit a while back. It's a great kit. If you guys need detailed info about the kit check this click |
great link, thanks TXL |
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We did all the distribution of the kits sold on 10-8. Rosscoe did design the kit, both the prototype that was sold on 10-8 and the current commercial version. Based on the original kit, and the feedback from field users, this version was created. Items were added, like the quick-ref cards, scalpel, super glue, iodine pads, and a few other things. Early on, the need for a training video became apparent. We thought we had a source that would do the video for the cost of the discs. Phil and I decided we could include the DVD to the original kit purchasers and we offered it that way. Turned out to be a hugely larger project, and many months later we have a professional quality 80 minute training video on how to use the kit. Like most things in life, you get what you pay for. I can send you links to tons of "blow-out kits" for $40. Buy a few and see how you like them. When Phil and his wife (it's her company that makes the kits), decided to look for commercial distribution they asked us to work with them. Top quality products that are field tested and sought after by folks in harms way are right up our alley. You are right, I shouldn't call Phil a medic. But he asked that we keep his name out of the discussions as best we could, so I was attempting to honor his request. He is much more than a medic though, and I hope he is the first one to reach me if I ever get shot. Their company is called "Stay In The Fight" and they are not selling kits direct, only through distributors and dealers. |
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I will not down play the merits of this kit. As a 'Medic I have much more in my bag but it cannot be carried on a molee. I will be the guy that gets the name "Doc" and will be protected due to the gear I have and the knowledge to use it. I see some very good parts to this kit, the airway kit is a nice addition that you normally don't see. Nomatter what you do it don't mean squat if the patient can't breathe. The superglue I can't praise it enough. I have 24 of Dermabond (brand name) in my bag. This is a medical superglue and if the tissue is dry it will close many wounds, minor and major. I have used in and out of the E.R. with better results then sutures. The maxi pads are old school EMS the will hold 1 unit of blood when saturated. I carry many in my bag. The airway kit well I blow that away, I'll just tube'em. I also carry chest tube kits, and I have used them on scenes. |
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The kit we sold on 10-8 had a different bag, different tourniquet, no Quick-ref cards, scalpel, super glue, etc. The 10-8 kit was a prototype designed to get the kit into the field to fill an immediate need and to obtain additional feedback on what was needed. Since it was offered only to the 10-8 community, the kit was sold at our cost. Unlike most of the products we sell, Wes and I are not in a position to do any sort of comprehensive testing of a blowout kit as we try not to shoot each other (or those nearby). We have gotten a lot of qualified feedback now, that we would not have had otherwise, and a lot of good men rested a little better knowing they had these along with them. I am confident that the kit will continue to improve as time goes on. We are in the process of offering an "upgrade" kit to purchasers of the Mod0 version for those that are interested in supplementing the first generation kits with the new additions. Similarly, if the current version gives way to a Mod2 version in the future, we would look to another offering to bring Mod1 kits up to a level consistent with then-current best practice thinking. I doubt that anyone wants their ultimate survivability dependant on a "Classic" trauma kit, when something new might give an edge. |
Please try to remember that others may have different opinions, some of which may be informed ones, as well. Keeping someone alive until an EMT crew, a medivac, etc. can take over is exactly what these kits were designed to do. Unless you spend your entire life within a few minutes of a hospital, you will frequently exist beyond the reach of professional medical attention in time to save your life. Improper use of almost anything can put you at risk. If you get rid of your guns there are those who will tell you that you are much safer than if you keep them around. Or that hoping the police will get there in time is all the protection you need from violent criminals. Personal responsibility is becoming a lost virtue. But it need not be. Acquiring proper tools and the skills to use them is not overly difficult. Just requires commitment and a mindset that you can and will do what it takes to survive. A personal story that offers a different perspective... Many years ago, a good friend was swimming in a local lake with his family and a group of friends. His older brother, as they often do, was showing off by climbing high up a rope swing and launching himself into the lake with a big splash. Entertaining, until he landed on a submerged branch which severed his femoral artery. The lake was in a city park, and a seventeen year old boy was DOA at the hospital less than 15 minutes later. My friend decided then and there that he would never just wait and hope that things would be okay. He finished school, went to college and then medical school, and spent 25 years as an emergency room trauma doc before he retired. This kit is not for everyone. If you can't see yourself learning enough to help yourself or someone else in an emergency, and if you are willing to roll the dice on the instant availability of a first responder team, then this isn't for you. |
Do you always shoot, hunt, or hike within an hour of a trauma unit? Do you always stay where an ambulance can reach you within minutes? I know I certainly don't. Some of the places are several hours walk to where an ambulance can get to. If I can purchase a kit, that includes a professionally well received supplies, a well designed layout, and a video that will at least allow you the chance to save the life of a fellow human. I will, and I will hope I never need it. |
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Don't take this as me shitting on this product... - I see catheters... but no IV lines or fluids. Purpose? - What looks like suppositories to the left of the scissors? For emergency/traumatic constipation? Or are those smelling salts? - Super glue is for? I've heard of it being used as a quick, field expedient way to close up a cut... also heard that the stuff is toxic/carcinogenic... seem to be mixed data on the ill-effects, but that if you want to play it safer use Derma-bond since it doesn't have the toxic chemicals. do you sell those laminated cards separate? |
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needle catheters for tension pneumothorax. sterile tampons for plugging holes that don't belong. super glue for emergency suturing. chosen because it works. (not by me, by folks who have used it) cards are only available as part of the kit. DVDs are sold separately and include the info on the cards. |
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Which is kind of why I'm asking so many questions, when it's pretty much offered to anyone, especially groups of people with a survival mentality who want anything they can add to their BOBs, some getting stuff they have no business having since they have no experience with it. |
Super glue is very safe to use on a cut. I use to use it alot before they even made medical grade super glue. |
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Training is an excellent idea, and suggested many times throughout the instructional DVD. These kits are used by a number of firearms training instructors, including Pat Rogers. I just sent Pat his DVD the other day. He has had one of the original kits for nearly a year. One more time, this is not a general first aid kit. It is for severe trauma in life or death situations when you don't have your personal ambulance/lifeflight helo waiting to provide treatment. If you are ever presented with a situation where you have a choice between using available resources to save a life, or praying that help will get there in time, only you can decide how much faith you have in the immediate power of prayer. If the Big Guy is on hold on line 2 you may just wish you had chosen door number one. Used to work with a guy who was dead set against guns for self defense. Asked him once if someone was raping and murdering his wife and daughter, would he be happy if someone with a gun stopped it by shooting the attacker. His answer was "no", he would rather they be raped and murdered than know that someone had a concealed weapon in his presence. A trauma kit would be of no use to him. |
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Paul, I'm not trying to take anything away from a good product. It's just my opinion that in a place like this forum, where [some] people jump on stuff for the cool factor more than the practicality of it, it would be like letting an infant play in the kitchen knife drawer. Sorry if it comes off that way. I'm certainly not trying to crap on your product or take away potential business.
Sounds like that guy's already had some trauma... blunt force trauma to the head if that's the way he thinks. Or just living in today's society must be a daily dose of trauma for him. That's just unreal. Funny how different people think. You wouldn't even have to finish asking that question before I would spew out "YES!!" |
is that quick clot there in the middle? i thought that stuff sounded useful, then a bunch of people that had experience with it said they couldn't really recommend it. I think that was over a year ago, has it been changed? |
| QuikClot is in the kit. There is a new version which generates less heat, but is less effective as a clotting agent. QC is only intended for specific types of bleeding, not to replace normal first aid procedures. The correct application and use of QC is detailed in the DVD. The heat generated from a proper application can even be a benefit in some circumstances. A lot of people have used QC where non-indicated and without proper wound prep, Done incorrectly, results can be less satisfactory. |
Got it. I'll take one. Many many thanks! Harlan aka thebomber |
Thanks for making my point. You seem to be happy in "Pray for an EMT" mode, so be content with that. Others, who take personal responsibility to a different level, may want to have different choices. Their right, as well. For some, "going quietly into that good night" is not an option. Of course treatment should vary depending on the type of injury. I don't remember stating that a needle catheter was used to treat hemorrhaging from a major artery. If your first thought upon seeing arterial bleeding from a leg is to push a needle into the chest, please keep away from sharp instruments of any kind. Most people who buy these kits will never use them and those that do will seldom use the needles. I have carried a can of flat-fix in every one of my vehicles for my adult life. never used one. Maybe I need to throw them all out. Sorry you don't like the kits, your right. However, they were designed by professionals for use by laypeople and intended for situations where there are only two options. Do something to save a life, or do nothing and watch a life slip away. These professionals are folks who have seen people die from the exact sorts of trauma the kits are focused towards. Their preference would be to have expert medical care instantly available at all times. Their reality, just like yours and mine, is much different. So they did something about it. Kudos to them. |
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I'm an active duty (17 years) Navy doc. This kit is very similar to those being issued to our troops as a replacment for the Individual First Aid Kits from "back in the day", the ones that had the olive drab pressure dressings in them. Remember those? We are currently training our Soldiers and Marines in "Combat Life Saver" techniques using a lot of the items in this kit. If the techniques can be taught in basic training anyone can learn them. They are designed to keep the red stuff in, the bad stuff out, and keep oxygen going to your brain. A kit like this can be used for self aid or buddy aid. It wasn't designed for EMTs/Medics. It was designed for grunts. Since I don't have anything to do with this company, I can't comment on the cost, but I can comment on using the material. The nasopharyngeal airway or nasal trumpet is easier to place than an oral airway, won't gag a semiconscious patient, and works better if there is facial trauma. The one handed tourniquet can save your life. You can bleed out in a few minutes from an arterial hit. For LEOS out there, how fast can your medics make it to you from the staging area or safe zone? (I know more SRTs have medics with them, but not all do). It can take up to six hours for a tourniquet to cause tissue damage from lack of circulation. Quick-Clot can stop major bleeds which otherwise would require surgical intervention to stop. That is what it was designed for. It has been reformulated and repackaged. Nobody I know in the Sandbox ever complained about it. Again, the choice was between bleeding out or heat generation causing some peripheral tissue damage. Ascherman chest seal- for sucking chest wounds, another by product of penetrating injuries to the chest. A sucking chest wound causes the lung to collapse, decreasing blood oxygen. It goes on as easy as a band-aid. No rocket science and it's already valved to maintain proper pressure inside the chest. If the victim doesn't have a sucking chest wound, no harm, no foul. Applying it won't hurt him (or her  Catheter over needle for decompression of tension pneumothorax- another lifesaver that can allow a collapsed lung to re-expand. Yes, you need to be able to recognize the signs, but remember, we're teaching boots how to do it. How? With training videos. Placing the catheter can save the victim if it is needed. If it wasn't needed, it's another no harm, no foul situation. Superglue- Dermabond and Superglue are both chemically the same. Both are cyanoacyrlate. Dermabond is processed and packaged under FDA license for medical products. Kinda like the differnce between cheap ground chuck and dog food. If you were really, really, hungry..... Anyway, I think these individual kits are a good idea in the right threat areas. If you are at high risk for some sort of penetrating trauma they could save your,or a buddies, life. The techniques are easy to learn, thousands of troops have been trained in them. They are very simple and worthwhile learning. DocV CDR, USN . |
Kind of off topic, but there was a movie where the guy's lung was collapsing and they stuck a needle in his chest with a open/close valve on it to control the amount of air. What movie was that? I wanna say Three Kings but I'm not positive. |
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"The nasopharyngeal airway or nasal trumpet is easier to place than an oral airway, won't gag a semiconscious patient, and works better if there is facial trauma." Do you think it's wise to tell UNTRAINED people to to stick an object in someones nose that has facial trauma??? Nasal trumpets CAN and HAVE compromised "stable airways"!!! Sounds like you need to take some review from Benumof!!  Oh.........and , yes I'm am a BC Anesthesiologist.......... |
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Here is my point as a professional in the medical field, You are selling these kits on a large website that has a large amount of civilians going to it and shopping for the latest "cool gear". Now I WOULD NOT want the liability of selling something like this kit that "could" in the wrong, untrained hands cause more harm than good. And you might want to think "Practicing medicine without a licence". A guy buys your kit. Watches DVD. See an accident on the side of the road. With all good intent uses this kit on a child. Child dies or has more injury due to said DVD training. Parents sue helper. Attorney for parents see this DVD. $$$$$. Paul. Let me just say: First aid IS A GOOD IDEA, and I get what you are saying. Just think of who should be using this, and who should not. And how many of the shoulds and should nots are reading this thread. |
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I hate to rake mud but I just cant stop myself. When did anyone here or anywhere else acquire the right to judge who should have the tools to hurt or harm anyone; or whether someone can market an item in a space defined for marketing. As adults we have the power and the right to choose our actions; or should have anyway. If Paul had not informed us of the availability of this product I would not have the right to choose. Perhaps if we all censored ourselves we wouldn't need the government to do it for us. Here, in this forum... you have to be shitting me. PS a simple post along the lines of "it appears some of the items in this kit when misused could do more harm than good" would have been sufficient for those of us who do know know the power of these tools. |
PS. A simple "I disagree" would have been sufficient. |
You're missing the big picture. Nobody is saying he should or should not sell it. IT is most definitely his right. Some people are just expressing the fact that some people may not have the skills required to use everything in this kit properly. Just like people here help other people on other purchases like gas masks. For someone who doesn't know dick about a gas mask they might go out and buy one with filters that have been expired for 5 years and if/when they need to use it they'll be disappointed when it doesn't work. People here are looking out for the welfare of those who think ownership implies qualification/expertise. Watch all the DVD's you want, some things are just left to the professionals. I know Paul's train of thought here is better to try than to just watch the person die if there is absolutely no hope of qualified personnel arriving on time. Well, if you're not a doctor, how do you know how long a person has before they die anyway. Some people scream bloody murder from a paper cut, others can be impaled and just grit their teeth and bear it. Does the DVD teach that? Somethings are just learned through experience. IMHO any injury below the surface that isn't blatantly obvious, like a fracture should be left to someone who knows what they're doing. Another obscure analogy? I can watch DIY TV shows all day long, but just because I watched Yankee Workshop doesn't mean I'll be able to build a beautiful wood cabinet. At least not without making a complete mess and going through lots of trial and error with various pieces of wood. I own all the tools but I'm definitely no carpenter... and a piece of wood isn't going to bleed out when I make an incorrect cut. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - The Guardian Trauma Kit (Page 1 of 2)
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