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Posted: 7/3/2017 7:38:44 PM EDT
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Hello everyone. Here's my first thread. https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_12/715300_First-AR--on-a-budget-.html
I posted there asking about getting my first AR on a budget but have since decided I want to build an M16A1 style AR. It's not going to be perfect as I am still on a budget but I think over a few months I can get around $750. My current plan is using U.S Collectors Ordnance blacktail furniture set with an A1 style carry handle from cncguns and an A1 rear sight part kit & A1 front sight post from Amherst Depot. That already gets me up to near $350. I am honestly clueless on everything else. My original plan was to buy a 20" barrel rifle kit from PSA and one of their stripped lowers. Although this way I'd be throwing all the parts kit furniture in the bin. Even though I would be paying for furniture I don't need, is it still cheaper to buy the assembled upper rifle kit? I don't have any tools for these guns, although I do have a ton of other tools at my disposal. Thanks for any help. |
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Hello everyone. Here's my first thread. https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_12/715300_First-AR--on-a-budget-.html I posted there asking about getting my first AR on a budget but have since decided I want to build an M16A1 style AR. It's not going to be perfect as I am still on a budget but I think over a few months I can get around $750. My current plan is using U.S Collectors Ordnance blacktail furniture set with an A1 style carry handle from cncguns and an A1 rear sight part kit & A1 front sight post from Amherst Depot. That already gets me up to near $350. I am honestly clueless on everything else. My original plan was to buy a 20" barrel rifle kit from PSA and one of their stripped lowers. Although this way I'd be throwing all the parts kit furniture in the bin. Even though I would be paying for furniture I don't need, is it still cheaper to buy the assembled upper rifle kit? I don't have any tools for these guns, although I do have a ton of other tools at my disposal. Thanks for any help. Get an A1 kit from What A Country. That's a little pricey but you'll have parts there that you won't need and can sell (the Full Auto FCG and the Front Sight if you get a barrel with one already installed). I just got a 20" 1:9 barrel from ar15sport.com, then with my credit card I was able to price match it with a Del-Ton (out of stock) barrel and got $95 refunded to me. My lower is a NoDak Spud lower, but you could go with an A2 lower and save a little money there. You may spend a little more than $750, Maybe around $850 to $900. |
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My current plan is using U.S Collectors Ordnance blacktail furniture set ... Oh, and I wouldn't go with those buttstocks, not if you want it to be an A1. They look 'A1ish', but that slit in the side of the stock so that the swivel will 'swivel', would drive me crazy just looking it in my safe. Get a real Type E stock if you want the trapdoor or a real Type D if you don't, but don't go with a knock-off. |
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Thanks for the info. I'm trying to stay a little cheaper but I will look at everything you said and see. I know you get what you pay for.
I've only heard positive stuff about US Collectors Ordnance but I will definitely take a look at the stock. I guess I could get the USGI furniture set from amherst depot also. Or from US Collectors Ordnance. |
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Thanks for the info. I'm trying to stay a little cheaper but I will look at everything you said and see. I know you get what you pay for. I've only heard positive stuff about US Collectors Ordnance but I will definitely take a look at the stock. I guess I could get the USGI furniture set from amherst depot also. Or from US Collectors Ordnance. Get creative though, with regard to financing it. If you can apply for a new credit card, look for one that gives you a bonus for a certain amount spent within 3 months. Some cards will give you $150 as a bonus if you spend $500 within 3 months. Some will give you as much as $800 if you spend $5,000 within 3 months. The key though, is pay it off immediately. Don't let the balance sit there. The interest will eat you alive. Use the card to build this rifle, then pay it off and get your bonus cash to add to the rifle. If the card will has price protection as one of its benefits (Citi and Chase do), then you may be able to get parts at lower prices. Visit this site multiple times every day, people post about deals all the time. A few months ago, Brownells had blemished A1 barrels at a ridiculously low price (something like $125 or $135). Also, if you get a parts kit, that may cost you in the $700 range but if you sell the FA FCG and the Front Sight on Gun Broker or in EE, you may get $100 or so back right there. |
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If you go with US Collectors, go with their surplus furniture, not that Blacktail stuff. That is, if you want to try to stay close to 'genuine'. Get creative though, with regard to financing it. If you can apply for a new credit card, look for one that gives you a bonus for a certain amount spent within 3 months. Some cards will give you $150 as a bonus if you spend $500 within 3 months. Some will give you as much as $800 if you spend $5,000 within 3 months. The key though, is pay it off immediately. Don't let the balance sit there. The interest will eat you alive. Use the card to build this rifle, then pay it off and get your bonus cash to add to the rifle. If the card will has price protection as one of its benefits (Citi and Chase do), then you may be able to get parts at lower prices. Visit this site multiple times every day, people post about deals all the time. A few months ago, Brownells had blemished A1 barrels at a ridiculously low price (something like $125 or $135). Also, if you get a parts kit, that may cost you in the $700 range but if you sell the FA FCG and the Front Sight on Gun Broker or in EE, you may get $100 or so back right there. Honestly if it gets up to $800, it does. I'm not in a rush to build it so I really plan on taking my time and deal shopping. $800 over 3 months or something isn't that bad. |
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^^^ What he said.
If you want to make your build accurate, and have no regrets later, take your time. I would not want an A2 upper myself - It would end up turning into an A2 build down the line, or if you sell it you would probably not get your $$$ back out of an A2 upper. Half the fun should be the hunt and some satisfaction as you look at your pile of correct stuff. 
Keep us posted |
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^^^ What he said. If you want to make your build accurate, and have no regrets later, take your time. I would not want an A2 upper myself - It would end up turning into an A2 build down the line, or if you sell it you would probably not get your $$ back out of an A2 upper. Half the fun should be the hunt and some satisfaction as you look at your pile of correct stuff.
Keep us posted I also tend to look through my stuff and find stuff that I don't really use, be it firearm related or otherwise, and if it's something I don't use/need, it goes on eBay (or GB) and the sale price goes toward my new project. For my XM16E1, it's working out so that I'm not spending any 'new' money at all. In fact, I'm going to end up with more money after I finish, than when I started lol. I turn it into a game though. I want a new rifle, so try as hard as possible to get it for 'free'. Great fun! |
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Thanks everyone so far. I will try my best to keep you guys posted.
Is the only difference between the A1 and A2 lowers aesthetic? I know if I end up getting the parts kit I'd want to go as close as possible but if it comes to it, I could just use a PSA/Anderson lower? If I do get a parts kit, what exactly is needed? A barrel and a lower? Also, is What A Country currently the cheapest parts kit? |
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Thanks everyone so far. I will try my best to keep you guys posted. Is the only difference between the A1 and A2 lowers aesthetic? I know if I end up getting the parts kit I'd want to go as close as possible but if it comes to it, I could just use a PSA/Anderson lower? If I do get a parts kit, what exactly is needed? A barrel and a lower? This image shows a partial fence lower vs. an A2, but if you look at the buffer tube area, you'll see the differences there. This partial fence lower also has the rollpin hole but an A1 lower wouldn't have that and of course, it's a partial fence whereas the A1 is a full fence (like the A2). 
With the parts kit, you'll need the barrel, the lower and a semi-auto fire control group. The full auto FCG can be modified to semi, but for me, I don't want any questions asked if anyone decides to look into my FCG. So I play it safe and just buy a lower parts kit. |
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Contact member Jhud and see if he can hook you up with some furniture. He's helped a few of us out over the years and has a whole lot more class than US Collectors or such. You won't be sorry. Your money do what you want. If he's out all you're out is an e-mail or IM. Wasn't long ago I saw some HG's of his on the EE very reasonable. If they don't have a nice PG I'll send you one for shipping costs but I'm sure they have them too. No affiliation just a much better guy to deal with than the one you mentioned. The US Collector guy lied and jerked me around for two months on some furniture a few years back and that's all I can go by.
For the rest depending on how correct $750 should easily cover it. If A-2 lower works (Anderson most anywhere for $50), get a Brownells A-1 upper and search for a proper dimension barrel. Stuff is dirt cheap right now, if you don't need Colt and Colt is hurting and selling cheap right now. CDNN has Colt M-16 BCG's for $90 in stock. Same thing everyone else sells for $160ish. I just got two in the mail. C and MPC on mine. Never been that cheap in last 15 years anyway. Rifle buffers and extension tubes from Stag on sale right now. Little dry film lube on the extension tube exterior and it will look like an original Colt which most the surplus stuff is covered with anyway. Screws and such for furniture Brownells has $4 shipping thru tomorrow night but I'd bet JHud has that stuff too if you talk to him real nice. I would think with Anderson lower and decent LPK / FCG you could get in around $600 fairly easy and look pretty darn close to an authentic Colt. Anderson charging handle is probably made at same place as Colt. I can't see any difference down to weight unless talking older grey handle and $12 sure beats $25 plus. If you don't mind putting it together CDNN has stripped Colts and the latch, spring and such too. Gonna have to pay $9 in shipping so might as well get the smalls too if they have them from whomever you purchase. Need a gas tube and FH for the barrel more than likely and that about cover it besides accessories, mags and sling. Again Stag quality as good as any and they are 20% off thru 4th. End up with a nice little shooter for cheap right now without much stress either. Swap out the lower later on if you want for a NDS or such and use the Anderson lower on your next build. No biggie there and you can be shooting and admiring your work for the 8 months you wait on the receiver.. |
| US collectors prices are up there....I am sure they are worth the money but my clones wear the correct furniture but I didn't pay near that much money for the stock and handguards. There are other sources....my clones have mottled stocks and look like they are from back in the day. Unless you want that new in the box look.. |
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US collectors prices are up there....I am sure they are worth the money but my clones wear the correct furniture but I didn't pay near that much money for the stock and handguards. There are other sources....my clones have mottled stocks and look like they are from back in the day. Unless you want that new in the box look.. 
These seem to be stuck between the it's cool now group and the retro group demands, maybe in a few years companies will begin making them again. Stag "A2" build kit |
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My current plan is using U.S Collectors Ordnance blacktail furniture set Thanks for any help. If you are on a budget, I think US Collectors Ordnance is the wrong place to buy. Their prices are through the roof! Their A1 butt stocks are not original either. They look like a Fulton Armory piece. I'd look on Gunbroker or here in the EE for an original set & at a better price. Just my personal opinion. |
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Yeah, I decided not to use aftermarket furniture. I'm getting a parts kit.
I just remembered we're virtually next door to a robotics and engineering machine shop. They have a water jet and a plasma engraver for engraving and they do anodizing. They may say they can't do this, but it's worth a shot. If I could get the lower engraved and anodized there I'd be set. |
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Yeah, I decided not to use aftermarket furniture. I'm getting a parts kit. I just remembered we're virtually next door to a robotics and engineering machine shop. They have a water jet and a plasma engraver for engraving and they do anodizing. They may say they can't do this, but it's worth a shot. If I could get the lower engraved and anodized there I'd be set. |
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Yeah, I decided not to use aftermarket furniture. I'm getting a parts kit. I just remembered we're virtually next door to a robotics and engineering machine shop. They have a water jet and a plasma engraver for engraving and they do anodizing. They may say they can't do this, but it's worth a shot. If I could get the lower engraved and anodized there I'd be set. |
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I plan on bringing it to them before we mill. That way, to them it's just a piece of aluminum.
As for the engraving, I disagree. I'd love to hear that they can re profile it for me too, but we'll see. If they can't reprofile but will engrave the m16a1 markings into it for like 30 bucks, I'll do it. I know it wouldn't be correct, but it'd look better on the wall or at the range until I can get a nodak spud. |
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I plan on bringing it to them before we mill. That way, to them it's just a piece of aluminum. As for the engraving, I disagree. I'd love to hear that they can re profile it for me too, but we'll see. If they can't reprofile but will engrave the m16a1 markings into it for like 30 bucks, I'll do it. I know it wouldn't be correct, but it'd look better on the wall or at the range until I can get a nodak spud. Use the Send e-mail or Send Instant Message (not sure which will work better) on the right of the screen to contact him. http://www.ar15.com/member/user.html?id=229115 |
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Send it to braceman before you complete the 80%. He can reprofile it & engrave the logo on it. Top notch work. Use the Send e-mail or Send Instant Message (not sure which will work better) on the right of the screen to contact him. http://www.ar15.com/member/user.html?id=229115 |
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Or not have any of it done and jam an unmarked A2 receiver in it. Or we could just try to re profile it ourselves.
Or we could send it to braceman to reprofile and engrave it ourselves. It would be about $170(more or less) to have braceman do his work. The A1 parts kit and barrel is almost 2x my original budget. Then I need a lpk and all the stuff I already bought. I'd rather something that looks good to the normal person then have to spend another $180 over my budget. Maybe once I get everything else I'll have the extra money to send it to him. We'll see. |
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Once again the build has gone in a different direction.
Using this information and picture, http://www.smallarmsreview.com/display.article.cfm?idarticles=2382 we've decided to go with a special forces type build. As you can tell, the suppressor used is an over the barrel. After talking to the local suppressor shop we learned these types are extremely expensive. He then said that the best way to get that look on a somewhat budget is to chop the barrel off at 16", right after the sight post, and throw a long suppressor on the end. He had an M16A1 handy so he showed the suppressor up against the barrel where it would be and it couldn't have looked much more like the picture. Then we plan on picking up an era colt 3x or 4x scope. Now this project is going to be over a couple years now but it'll be worth it. |
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Once again the build has gone in a different direction. Using this information and picture, http://www.smallarmsreview.com/display.article.cfm?idarticles=2382 we've decided to go with a special forces type build. As you can tell, the suppressor used is an over the barrel. After talking to the local suppressor shop we learned these types are extremely expensive. He then said that the best way to get that look on a somewhat budget is to chop the barrel off at 16", right after the sight post, and throw a long suppressor on the end. He had an M16A1 handy so he showed the suppressor up against the barrel where it would be and it couldn't have looked much more like the picture. Then we plan on picking up an era colt 3x or 4x scope. Now this project is going to be over a couple years now but it'll be worth it. |
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Why not seek a mock/faux suppressor? That should be far less expensive and you would avoid the NFA tax as well. But really, I have. This is a long term project. I may not get the suppressor for 6 months or a year. It doesn't mean I can't build and shoot the gun before then. All I'd have to do is disassemble it and give the barrel to the shop. |
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It has changed direction again, this time for good. I hope.
After reading about undergassing issues if you cut down a 20" to 16" and leave the rifle length gas tube we decided to hold off on the silencer look until we can buy another barrel and do some major work to it. We have a chrome lined ar15sport barrel so I'd rather wait until I can get something cheaper before I start messing with it. We also decided to build an XM16E1. I found I like the look of the partial fence better and I like the idea of something kind of different. I know there's a lot of them, but still not as many as M16s. We just picked up 5 colt 30 rd mags and a non colt but still usgi(?) bipod. Stencil for DIYing the etching will be here soon. As soon as I get the parts kit we'll be in business. Shouldn't be long. We also decided to take a stab at reprofiling the lower. Here's the first go around. http://imgur.com/DlfDJkT.jpg |
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It has changed direction again, this time for good. I hope. After reading about undergassing issues if you cut down a 20" to 16" and leave the rifle length gas tube we decided to hold off on the silencer look until we can buy another barrel and do some major work to it. We have a chrome lined ar15sport barrel so I'd rather wait until I can get something cheaper before I start messing with it. We also decided to build an XM16E1. I found I like the look of the partial fence better and I like the idea of something kind of different. I know there's a lot of them, but still not as many as M16s. We just picked up 5 colt 30 rd mags and a non colt but still usgi(?) bipod. Stencil for DIYing the etching will be here soon. As soon as I get the parts kit we'll be in business. Shouldn't be long. We also decided to take a stab at reprofiling the lower. Here's the first go around. http://imgur.com/a/01W7S An imgur link like listed above won't work when pasted into the image field here. You have to find the direct link to the picture (ending in jpg, and usually found by right-clicking on the picture itself and selecting copy image location or something similar) and then pasting that into the image field. Your picture is at the following link (left cold) and looks like this pasted in. http://i.imgur.com/DlfDJkT.jpg 
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Thank you! Unfortunately, I tried all ways of posting it. I tried url, img, direct and imgur. I just now tried copying and pasting your exact post via quote and it still didn't work. |
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If you posted the direct jpg link you're doing it right. As a new member, your images will only show a link until you get 50 posts. Once it shows as a link, team members (who will see the image) can click to approve them. Once 3 have clicked approve it will show for everyone. |
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I'm back!
We've done quite a bit of work in the past few weeks. We cleaned up the reprofile and etched the lower ourselves. It's also sandblasted so we just need to get some Norrell's Moly Resin now. The rest of the parts kit will be here soon so all we need to buy now is the LPK. Shouldn't be too long. I'll try and post some pictures of the mostly completed lower. 
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