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Posted: 12/30/2015 2:13:54 PM EDT
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I have an A1 upper that has been in the safe for years. Pulled it out the other day and noticed something.
Below the peep adjustment on all A1/SP1 carry handles there is an indented area on either side of the rear of the handle. The usual location for forge markings on Colts. This upper does not have the indentions. The rear area of the carry handle is solid. Anyone ever seen this? I will try to post a few pics. |
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Only links are showing for you because you have less than 50 posts and aren't a team member. Team members can see your photos and click to approve them (which I have done) and once a couple more people do the same they will show for everyone. And that's the oddest upper I've ever seen. |
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Quoted: What about it being an A1 C7 upper? Didn't not only Norinco make them but some other country as well? I have a A1 C7 upper and I think mine might have been made by or for Olympic Arms. Its a circle A and I'm not 100% sure. Don't see any forge markings on this upper though. Just trying to figure it's value. |
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This may be the case. when i purchased the parts for the build, the lower and upper came from the same dealer at a gun show. The lower is an Olympic. Don't see any forge markings on this upper though. Just trying to figure it's value. Quoted:
Quoted:
What about it being an A1 C7 upper? Didn't not only Norinco make them but some other country as well? I have a A1 C7 upper and I think mine might have been made by or for Olympic Arms. Its a circle A and I'm not 100% sure. Don't see any forge markings on this upper though. Just trying to figure it's value. "value" on used parts is what someone is willing to pay, and usually the easiest way to determine that is judging off past sales of the same type of item...You have an item unlike any other most of us have ever seen, so value is hard to put a price on. 
I will say though that personally Im only interested in original military parts....you'd have to find someone that just wants something uniquely retro. IMHO of course. 
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That really is something different! I actually like the looks of it. Not sure I like them better then the original style, I just think it looks kinda clean I guess you could say. Would look much better without the brass deflector though if it was an A1 instead of C7. It kinda has an A2/A1 mix look to it.
Back in the early- mid 90s there weren't nowhere near as many manufacturers as there are today so that would make it a little easier to pin point it if possible. I wasn't big into ARs until the last year or 2 so can't be of any help on what might have been around back then. A couple things that could have happened, 1 - Whoever built it probably had a machine go down and didn't catch the fact that it wasn't machined correctly and sent it out anyways. Or 2 - Some small time shop that didn't make many ARs and was buying their own castings decided to save a little time by not milling that section out. Not saying either of these are right, but could be a couple reasons I guess. As per value, really couldn't say either. I would probably value you it at higher then the normal costs of an upper that was suppose to be correct - but most people would skip out on buying it over an original for their intended uses. But the 1 out of 100 like myself that just wants something different and thinks it looks good would probably be willing to pay a little more for it then a standard one. If I had the money laying around I would think $175-200 would be a good deal on it since normal C7s are $100-140ish usually. But maybe I am way off, it is just one of those things that is so hard to value. |
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is that a GM/HR sight wheel on it. I never seen a upper like that one. The markings are consistent with "H&R style" rear sight wheels (flat top to 3/5 and "perky 3/5" where they come back towards the edge, whereas the GM "attributed" styles have a "droopy 3/5" that don't really form a circle, but rather a line down), although I've seen the same style on Colt and others. Whether it's original/unique to either manufacturer is a question that will be probably never be answered. v/r, Jon |
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Bought it as a part for a complete build. Basically bought every individual part while at the gun show and built the rifle. Think I purchased the upper, lower and barrel (with no bayonet lug or threaded muzzle of course. Due to the Clinton ban at the time.) from the same dealer.  |
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Quoted: Bought it as a part for a complete build. Basically bought every individual part while at the gun show and built the rifle. Think I purchased the upper, lower and barrel (with no bayonet lug or threaded muzzle of course. Due to the Clinton ban at the time.) from the same dealer. |
Your upper is cast not forged. Thin parting line at the rear of the receiver and rough texture, forgings have a wide band at the parting. One or two of these have shown up since I've been here. I don't think anyone was certain of the origin. I think some said maybe SENDRA others said maybe Olympic. All of the Chinese uppers we have seen have been closer to a true A1 type not "C7", whether those are cast or forged, I don't know. ... a recent thread on those...http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_123/686948_norinco_a1__.html |
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The forge line in front of the ejection port remind me of the norinco uppers. (Square, and very close to the port)
How's the fit of detent on sight wheel / windage drum? Weren't the Norinco's out a bit and authentic windage drum didn't match arrow dimension as this appears in pic? Check fitment on a lower you know is in spec and see if it fits. Olympic's preban weren't know for their fitment either. Norinco's don't usually fit true milspec units very well. Only seen one pic of a Norinco C-7 and it's not the best as it appears cropped or out of dimension for lack of better term. Google Norinco AR platform pics or such. Mostly A-1 style less shell deflector or flat top M-4 with detachable carry handle. They were available in USA during the time frame of ownership you're talking about. Got any friends in Canada. Think they are still sold up there. |
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http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2008/06/12/poisonous-ar-upper-being-sold-on-gunbroker/
A similar upper in the link, ^^ it doesn't have the lowered indented area below the rear sight. I have tried to find the older posts with similar uppers with no luck...maybe one of the guys from those will see this one. |
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Quoted: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2008/06/12/poisonous-ar-upper-being-sold-on-gunbroker/ A similar upper in the link, ^^ it doesn't have the lowered indented area below the rear sight. I have tried to find the older posts with similar uppers with no luck...maybe one of the guys from those will see this one. But Beryllium!!!!! Hope mine is just aluminum. |
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Quoted: That's the closest so far.But Beryllium!!!!! Hope mine is just aluminum. Quoted: Quoted: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2008/06/12/poisonous-ar-upper-being-sold-on-gunbroker/ A similar upper in the link, ^^ it doesn't have the lowered indented area below the rear sight. I have tried to find the older posts with similar uppers with no luck...maybe one of the guys from those will see this one. Hope mine is just aluminum. This post mentions the weight. Mine is very light and the color of the metal is that of aluminum. May have been cast from the same molds though being I purchased it around that time and with an Olympic lower. |
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Also found this... Maybe this one was cast after or before the 200 beryllium ones mentioned in the post. |
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A couple things that could have happened, 1 - Whoever built it probably had a machine go down and didn't catch the fact that it wasn't machined correctly and sent it out anyways. Or 2 - Some small time shop that didn't make many ARs and was buying their own castings decided to save a little time by not milling that section out. Not saying either of these are right, but could be a couple reasons I guess. A good theory, but I believe the indentations are part of the forging process, and not actually machined at all. As you and others have mentioned though, it's probably cast rather than forged. |
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Quoted: why is there a submit button at the bottom of your post? Quoted: Quoted: Bought it as a part for a complete build. Basically bought every individual part while at the gun show and built the rifle. Think I purchased the upper, lower and barrel (with no bayonet lug or threaded muzzle of course. Due to the Clinton ban at the time.) from the same dealer. Probably not intentional. The buttons are images (like the smileys) which link to an action, and can be dragged into the body of a post. Clicking it seems to open a new reply window.    |
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http://ccwnebraska.yuku.com/reply/15260/t/Olympic-Arms-Plinker-556-600-O-B-O-.html#.VoVITVJPJ3Y
Olympic arms, cast upper looks like yours, lower is cast as well^^ https://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=246349 A couple more pics of an Oly cast "Plinker"^^^ same style upper http://archives.collectorsfirearms.com/?category=&page=198&category=&product=r2454 Another cast Oly Plinker^^^ |
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Quoted: http://ccwnebraska.yuku.com/reply/15260/t/Olympic-Arms-Plinker-556-600-O-B-O-.html#.VoVITVJPJ3Y Olympic arms, cast upper looks like yours, lower is cast as well^^ https://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=246349 A couple more pics of an Oly cast "Plinker"^^^ same style upper http://archives.collectorsfirearms.com/?category=&page=198&category=&product=r2454 Another cast Oly Plinker^^^ Which was not a plinker model. |
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Very cool! I thought they would be a little more rare then that, but I bet there are quite a few of them out there you just don't see them often since it was only one model and haven't been made for 20 years or so. I'd say since it wasn't a rare fluke or a one off it may lower the price down to about normal C7 styled uppers if you were to get rid of it. But since you have it, I think it is a good excuse to build you up a new rifle!
My choice - Pick up a 14.7" mid-length Pencil barrel from Ballistic Advantage, ToolCraft BCG from WCArmory, MOE stock/handguards/grip. Then you can have you a very nice simple lightweight KISS rifle. |
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Quoted: Very cool! I thought they would be a little more rare then that, but I bet there are quite a few of them out there you just don't see them often since it was only one model and haven't been made for 20 years or so. I'd say since it wasn't a rare fluke or a one off it may lower the price down to about normal C7 styled uppers if you were to get rid of it. But since you have it, I think it is a good excuse to build you up a new rifle! My choice - Pick up a 14.7" mid-length Pencil barrel from Ballistic Advantage, ToolCraft BCG from WCArmory, MOE stock/handguards/grip. Then you can have you a very nice simple lightweight KISS rifle. All of the AR builds I have are flat tops. I actually replaced this one with a flat top. The closest retro build I have is a Mod Holland. |
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Quoted:
Very cool! I thought they would be a little more rare then that, but I bet there are quite a few of them out there you just don't see them often since it was only one model and haven't been made for 20 years or so. I'd say since it wasn't a rare fluke or a one off it may lower the price down to about normal C7 styled uppers if you were to get rid of it. But since you have it, I think it is a good excuse to build you up a new rifle! My choice - Pick up a 14.7" mid-length Pencil barrel from Ballistic Advantage, ToolCraft BCG from WCArmory, MOE stock/handguards/grip. Then you can have you a very nice simple lightweight KISS rifle. I wouldn't go that much. These are uppers prone to cracking. These were made back in the day when mil-spec forgings were hard to come by. |
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Good to know 44Echo, I thought about that for a second but didn't follow it any further. What parts were prone to cracking do you know? That really is a bummer, as it looks like a nice upper. I wonder if it was in something like a 22lr build if it would be better off for it then. If I had a spare flat top laying around I would switch it out for yours but I don't at the moment. This may be a stupid question but what makes a Casting not as strong as a regular forged lower. I am sure there is good reason, just never heard it explained. And where does Billet fall into?
And you don't know what your missing out on with the A1 uppers, and lightweight barrels. Very simple lightweight rifles that just feel great in your hands. But I really like my iron sights too. Anything that has an optic on it really needs the flat top to feel right. |
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Good to know 44Echo, I thought about that for a second but didn't follow it any further. What parts were prone to cracking do you know? That really is a bummer, as it looks like a nice upper. I wonder if it was in something like a 22lr build if it would be better off for it then. If I had a spare flat top laying around I would switch it out for yours but I don't at the moment. This may be a stupid question but what makes a Casting not as strong as a regular forged lower. I am sure there is good reason, just never heard it explained. And where does Billet fall into? And you don't know what your missing out on with the A1 uppers, and lightweight barrels. Very simple lightweight rifles that just feel great in your hands. But I really like my iron sights too. Anything that has an optic on it really needs the flat top to feel right. Apparently these crack around the barrel nut, from what I have read today. The cast lowers may crack around the receiver extension area also. Not trying to be a jerk, it's just there are better more available choices out there today than the late 1980's to early 1990's. Google: cracked olympic ar15 ...then look at the images and read the posts with them I don't even buy used Colt uppers anymore, I get new ones from NoDak Spud. My builds are not, nor will they ever be "real",so I build a representation of a rifle to please myself. I do love the builds where the guys go all out and use engraved 80%ers and as many authentic parts they can find though. |
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