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Retro Barrel Source Spreadsheet (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 6/17/2015 5:40:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ZMan941][Edited]
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Trying to find a suitable non-Colt barrel has been a bit frustrating for me so I figured I'd compile a document to help others find barrels for their builds.
The basic idea is to provide a listing of barrels that could for the various retro builds and a quick reference of their features. Retro Barrel Spreadsheet Included Information
Requirements/Restrictions
I don't know how correct things are. I started with what I've seen around here and went from there. A 20" with an A1 profile I can recognize pretty well, but I definitely need input on this, especially from the carbine guys. The original criteria included 0.625" diameter at the gas port. I've changed that after looking at some of the carbine threads where people seem fine with using 0.75" ones and now I need to go back through the carbine length barrels and see what I passed over the first time. I don't see this as being a huge issue for the 20" barrels as there is a decent selection with the proper size. I also don't know if including F-marked FSB's is a good idea or not. I don't know if people modify the front posts or just remove them and get a proper one put on. There is also space to add sources for reproduction muzzle devices. I'm not concerned about the improved 3-prong and the A1 birdcage because those are easy to find, but the cone, 3.5" moderator, and 4.5" moderator I think would be useful to have links to. Lastly, I have space to compile a list of people who can modify barrels. I know I'll need someone to drill and pin a FSB and some of the carbine suitable barrels will need to be cut down a bit to match. Let me know what you guys think and please let me know what I am missing so I can add to this. ---Change Log--- 6/17/2015 -Initial Post 6/18/2015 -Added this nifty change log -Added Requirements/Restrictions list -Added Chrome lined and Dia at Gas Port columns. -Updated/verified all information -Added four 20" barrels from CMMG, Delton, and McKay, -Added five 16" barrels from Colt, Delton, and DPMS -Added three 14.5 barrels from Colt, Doublestar and FNH -Added six 10"/10.5" barrels from Brownell's, Faxon, and Green Mountain -added three "Other" barrels from CMMG and DPMS 7/20/2015 -Updated 20" Brownell's Barrel -Added Muzzle Devices Page with the following categories: Duck Bill, Imp. Three-Prong, A1, 5.5" XM177-ish, 4.5" XM177, 3.5" Colt 607, Conical 7/30/2015 -Added AR15Sport's Faux 607 to the list of muzzle devices 7/31/2015 -Added pricing to Retro Arms Works products -Added "Other" section to Muzzle Device tab -Added Retro Arms Works Prototype flash hider -Added Barrel Modification Services to Barrel tab -Added Retro Arms Works barrel modification services and pricing 8/16/215 -Updated diameter at gas port for DoubleStar 10.5" Lightweight 8/31/2015 -Added the Griffin Armaments XM177E2 Linear Comp to the muzzle devices. 10/16/2015 -Added Top Not Top Ends' M16A1 offerings in the 20" section. I believe these are assembled with GM Barrles -Added pricing and "source" for the Brick 607 repro moderator. 10/19/2015 -Added some Double Star barrels I was missing. 11/18/2015 -Added a new offering from BoyWonder777: Modified CMMG 1:7 with an A1 profile and Colt parts. -Updated information on the 20" Brownell's. Now with slip ring and proper FSB. 3/3/2015 -Removed BoyWonder777's modified barrels. Some guys went and bought them all! 4/21/2016 -Added the new 14.7" and 12.7" barrels from Brownell's |
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Originally Posted By hypersport750:
I noticed the Delton 20" 1x9 non chrome lined pencil barrel was not listed. It has a F marked front sight and M4 ramps. $154 on thier site.I know a few of us have built are retros with these. That was one of the ones I didn't include because of the 0.75" diameter at the gas port and the F-marked FSB. I can certainly add that in though if I am going to remove the FSB area requirement. |
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Alright. I added 21 more barrels to allow for 0.75" diameter at gas port for those who don't care and non-standard profiles under the handguards.
I also added a change log to the top post so people can see what has changed. Until Brownell's fixes their F-marked FSB problem, if you want a "correct" 20" barrel you have a choice between the Criterion or the new Green Mountain with rifle ramps and 1:12, and then have to get a FSB mounted. If you don't mind M4 ramps the AR15Sport 1:12 is a good solution out of the box, just add sight parts and a sling swivel. If twist rate isn't a concern for you or you don't want 1:12, there are a few out-of-the box options and a few add-you-own FSB options. none of them have rifle ramps though. Carbine's I can't spot the profiles, but there are a lot more of them. I've seen a few posts of people looking for 1:7's for their carbines, and I can say there are definitely some choices. Actually, it looks like 1:12 is the twist rate that is absent from the carbine choices. |
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Originally Posted By ZMan941:
That was one of the ones I didn't include because of the 0.75" diameter at the gas port and the F-marked FSB. I can certainly add that in though if I am going to remove the FSB area requirement. Originally Posted By ZMan941:
Originally Posted By hypersport750:
I noticed the Delton 20" 1x9 non chrome lined pencil barrel was not listed. It has a F marked front sight and M4 ramps. $154 on thier site.I know a few of us have built are retros with these. That was one of the ones I didn't include because of the 0.75" diameter at the gas port and the F-marked FSB. I can certainly add that in though if I am going to remove the FSB area requirement. Copy that. I would have gone with the AR15 sport 1/12 barrel, but it was not available at the time. The Delton price point also attracted me. |
| A pleasure to be included. Thank you for thinking of us! |
The Director at Faxon Firearms.
Ask us any questions or drop me an e-mail: [email protected] **Please send an e-mail!** ARFCOM does NOT send a notification when you send a PM.
Ask us any questions or drop me an e-mail: [email protected] **Please send an e-mail!** ARFCOM does NOT send a notification when you send a PM.
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Originally Posted By ZMan941:
You are quite welcome. Would you be able to tell us how the 20" "Gunner" profile differs from a standard A1 profile? That would be very useful information to have. Originally Posted By ZMan941:
Originally Posted By RogueNathan:
A pleasure to be included. Thank you for thinking of us! You are quite welcome. Would you be able to tell us how the 20" "Gunner" profile differs from a standard A1 profile? That would be very useful information to have. We will be slightly thicker than the true A1 profile behind the gas block. We purposefully did this for heat resistance and accuracy. Up front, very similar, but actually thinner. |
The Director at Faxon Firearms.
Ask us any questions or drop me an e-mail: [email protected] **Please send an e-mail!** ARFCOM does NOT send a notification when you send a PM.
Ask us any questions or drop me an e-mail: [email protected] **Please send an e-mail!** ARFCOM does NOT send a notification when you send a PM.
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Originally Posted By yankee-V:
Wow, downloaded that baby. Thank you! Browsed it a bit before saving to my project files. I did not notice if you listed any 9mm barrels ... Originally Posted By yankee-V:
Wow, downloaded that baby. Thank you! Browsed it a bit before saving to my project files. I did not notice if you listed any 9mm barrels ... Well I plan to keep updating it as people provide more info on carbine barrels. Also there are no 9mm barrels on this list. Only 5.56. Originally Posted By HKILLER:
It may be a while but i have 40 ar180 barrels that im going to make carbine 14.7lightweight. With rifle extentions and will be 1/12 twist. My main idea was to keep a spread sheet with commercial options that would be available for the foreseeable future, but I can add your offerings to the top post when ready. |
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Originally Posted By neverenuf:
Per Jesse @ J&T DSC on the gas port size on the 10.5 and 11.5 barrels.. love the spread sheet!! http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_40/265072_11_5_lightweight_gas_port_size_.html I wasn't sure how necessary that stat is. If people want it I guess I can go back and add it, but for a quick reference that might be more info than needed. |
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Originally Posted By ZMan941:
Trying to find a suitable non-Colt barrel has been a bit frustrating for me so I figured I'd compile a document to help others find barrels for their builds. The basic idea is to provide a listing of barrels that could for the various retro builds and a quick reference of their features. Retro Barrel Spreadsheet Included Information
Requirements/Restrictions
I don't know how correct things are. I started with what I've seen around here and went from there. A 20" with an A1 profile I can recognize pretty well, but I definitely need input on this, especially from the carbine guys. The original criteria included 0.625" diameter at the gas port. I've changed that after looking at some of the carbine threads where people seem fine with using 0.75" ones and now I need to go back through the carbine length barrels and see what I passed over the first time. I don't see this as being a huge issue for the 20" barrels as there is a decent selection with the proper size. I also don't know if including F-marked FSB's is a good idea or not. I don't know if people modify the front posts or just remove them and get a proper one put on. There is also space to add sources for reproduction muzzle devices. I'm not concerned about the improved 3-prong and the A1 birdcage because those are easy to find, but the cone, 3.5" moderator, and 4.5" moderator I think would be useful to have links to. Lastly, I have space to compile a list of people who can modify barrels. I know I'll need someone to drill and pin a FSB and some of the carbine suitable barrels will need to be cut down a bit to match. Let me know what you guys think and please let me know what I am missing so I can add to this. ---Change Log--- 6/17/2015 -Initial Post 6/18/2015 -Added this nifty change log -Added Requirements/Restrictions list -Added Chrome lined and Dia at Gas Port columns. -Updated/verified all information -Added four 20" barrels from CMMG, Delton, and McKay, -Added five 16" barrels from Colt, Delton, and DPMS -Added three 14.5 barrels from Colt, Doublestar and FNH -Added six 10"/10.5" barrels from Brownell's, Faxon, and Green Mountain -added three "Other" barrels from CMMG and DPMS What you guys think of adding Liemohn manufacturing? He's making retro 9mm barrels for the DOE builds, I have several builds I have made from his stuff and he does great work. The barrels are 4140 1x10 twist and shoot every grade ammo I have put through them. |
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Originally Posted By mtbrass:
What you guys think of adding Liemohn manufacturing? He's making retro 9mm barrels for the DOE builds, I have several builds I have made from his stuff and he does great work. The barrels are 4140 1x10 twist and shoot every grade ammo I have put through them. I was going for just a list of 5.56, but if there is interest I can just add a page for 9mm if there are 9mm retro builds. Also you may want to edit your post so it doesn't quote the entire OP. 
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Spreadsheet updated.
Per a post in their initial retro-barrel thread, Brownell's has stated that the 20" barrel will change to the proper height FSB and that when the change is made the description of the product will change. I checked just now and I no longer see mention of an F-Marked FSB in the product description so I am assuming the change has been made. Additionally, Brownell's announced that other barrel lengths are in the works, including 12.5" and 14.5" lengths. After their initial announcement post, a suggestion to change the lengths to 12.7" and 14.7" to allow for 16" legal length with a 4.5" and standard muzzle devices permanently attached. They stated they are early on enough in development that such a thing should be possible. Original posts are referenced below. Originally Posted By Brownells:
More 20" M16A1 barrels are on the way. When we receive new versions without F-Marked front sight bases, the description on the current barrel will update. Other barrels in the works include: 20" M16A1 Lightweight 1-7 (with and without a front sight base installed) 16" Lightweight 1-12 Chrome Lined with Front Sight Base 14.5" Lightweight 1-12 Chrome Lined with Front Sight Base 11.5" Lightweight 1-12 Chrome Lined with Front Sight Base These are all still a few months out, as we're currently ironing out a few details. Also, we're sourcing new production flat delta rings. These will be available individually, in a delta ring kit and pre-installed on all of the barrels noted above. There are a few other projects in the works that retro fans will enjoy, but they're a bit too early to announce. Originally Posted By Brownells:
Originally Posted By mike_nds:
What we're getting at is if you want to supply the Retro crowd (and some lightweight KISS guys), the barrels need to be a non-tradition length so that a normal length flash hider can be pinned/welded in place for legal length. 12.7" + grenade ring + 4.5" FH = over 16" 14.7" + washer + FH = over 16" Good call. We're early enough on, we can probably make those changes. Will update shortly to confirm, but these shouldn't be an issue. I have also started work on the muzzle device portion of the list. Please let me know if you have any contributions for either section. |
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Updated the Muzzle Device list to include the new Colt 607 reproduction offered by AR15Sport.com
I'm also working on CAD models for the XM177 and Colt 607 moderators. When complete, I plan to offer them to those who want to attempt to make their own. All input is helpful as while the XM177 moderator has almost complete drawings to work from, the 607's is just general dimensions with some assumptions. I'd also like to draw up the conical Colt 608 hider if I can find any dimensions for it. |
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Another update!
John of Retro Arms Works offered to help by providing a price list. The price of all Retro Arms Works muzzle devices has been added and the Prototype 3-prong has been added as well. Additionally, I have added the section "Barrel Modification Services" to the Barrel tab. |
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Originally Posted By ZMan941:
Another update! John of Retro Arms Works offered to help by providing a price list. The price of all Retro Arms Works muzzle devices has been added and the Prototype 3-prong has been added as well. Additionally, I have added the section "Barrel Modification Services" to the Barrel tab. I spoke with John today and he as well thinks your project is very cool. |
WTB : Bipod, Case, & Cleaning Kit for 1963-1964 Late 602's, Early 604's, & XM16E1's.
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Originally Posted By 44Echo10:
https://jtdistributing.com/store/dbl2067.html 20" stripped  (specifications are similar, don't see the reason for price difference)
https://jtdistributing.com/store/dbl2167.html 20" stripped (specifications are similar, don't see the reason for price difference)
Originally Posted By 44Echo10:
https://jtdistributing.com/store/dbl2067.html 20" stripped (specifications are similar, don't see the reason for price difference)
https://jtdistributing.com/store/dbl2167.html 20" stripped (specifications are similar, don't see the reason for price difference)
Interesting. I don't see those on Double Star's sight. Probably how I missed them. Not sure what the difference is. I wonder if the cheaper one isn't actually 4150 steel and it is just a description copy/paste typo. I'll investigate and add this when I get answers! Originally Posted By Rentprop1:
Primary arms had the SS version of these on sale for $ 79 if you got a little paint . Radical Firearms 10.5" 5.56 NATO M4 Profile Melonite 1-7 Twist That profile though. |
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Originally Posted By DMark:
Just got this barrel in yesterday from J&T Distributing DoubleStar - 10.5" 1:9 Lightweight Barrel, w/Forged Sight Base - Item # AR615 It is 0.625 at the gas block.  I got one of those too. Wait until that 1/2" starts to bother you. 
I will. Trust me. 
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“If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.”
George S. Patton Jr.
George S. Patton Jr.
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Originally Posted By Cal30M1:
I got one of those too. Wait until that 1/2" starts to bother you.
I will. Trust me. Originally Posted By Cal30M1:
Originally Posted By DMark:
Just got this barrel in yesterday from J&T Distributing DoubleStar - 10.5" 1:9 Lightweight Barrel, w/Forged Sight Base - Item # AR615 It is 0.625 at the gas block. I got one of those too. Wait until that 1/2" starts to bother you.
I will. Trust me. I already have a "Fix" for that. 
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Originally Posted By DMark:
I already have a "Fix" for that.
Originally Posted By DMark:
Originally Posted By Cal30M1:
Originally Posted By DMark:
Just got this barrel in yesterday from J&T Distributing DoubleStar - 10.5" 1:9 Lightweight Barrel, w/Forged Sight Base - Item # AR615 It is 0.625 at the gas block. I got one of those too. Wait until that 1/2" starts to bother you.
I will. Trust me. I already have a "Fix" for that.
Hacksaw and a Mk1 Eyeball?
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“If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.”
George S. Patton Jr.
George S. Patton Jr.
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Originally Posted By DMark:
Just got this barrel in yesterday from J&T Distributing DoubleStar - 10.5" 1:9 Lightweight Barrel, w/Forged Sight Base - Item # AR615 It is 0.625 at the gas block. Great! Thanks for letting me know. I'm going to make the safe assumption that that is true for both the chrome-lined and non chome-lined versions. |
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Originally Posted By ZMan941:
Great! Thanks for letting me know. I'm going to make the safe assumption that that is true for both the chrome-lined and non chome-lined versions. Originally Posted By ZMan941:
Originally Posted By DMark:
Just got this barrel in yesterday from J&T Distributing DoubleStar - 10.5" 1:9 Lightweight Barrel, w/Forged Sight Base - Item # AR615 It is 0.625 at the gas block. Great! Thanks for letting me know. I'm going to make the safe assumption that that is true for both the chrome-lined and non chome-lined versions. Very safe assumption, J&T / Doublestar one of the few places that still have 0.625" FSB's available. |
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Originally Posted By ZMan941:
Interesting. I don't see those on Double Star's sight. Probably how I missed them. Not sure what the difference is. I wonder if the cheaper one isn't actually 4150 steel and it is just a description copy/paste typo. I'll investigate and add this when I get answers! Originally Posted By ZMan941:
Originally Posted By 44Echo10:
https://jtdistributing.com/store/dbl2067.html 20" stripped (specifications are similar, don't see the reason for price difference) [ likely 4140 steel] $204.99
https://jtdistributing.com/store/dbl2167.html 20" stripped (specifications are similar, don't see the reason for price difference) [4150 steel] $252.99
Interesting. I don't see those on Double Star's sight. Probably how I missed them. Not sure what the difference is. I wonder if the cheaper one isn't actually 4150 steel and it is just a description copy/paste typo. I'll investigate and add this when I get answers! third choice on their site now https://jtdistributing.com/store/dbl2069.html 20" stripped, 1:9 twist, 4140 steel, $204.99 This 1:9 is the same price as the cheaper 1:7, after seeing this one is 4140, I am sure you are correct about a cut and paste situation. |
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I added the Griffin Armaments XM177E2 Linear Comp to the muzzle devices. I cannot confirm if it's external dimensions are 100% accurate, but it is claimed to be made to the Colt drawings for the outside. From pictures I have seen, it is visually different when looking straight on, but not many people would see that unless giving it a comb over for accuracy (and it was unloaded, of course).
Could be a potential option for those wanting a functional retro muzzle device. |
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You wight want to add Top Notch Top Ends barrel assemblies to the spreadsheet. They have all the combinations of FSB's and barrel extensions. 1/12, 4150 steel with chrome bore and chamber. They are a small operation that take a while to fill orders, but they definitely have good products coming out of their shop.
http://www.tntesales.com/search.php?search_query=M16A1&x=0&y=0 |
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20" 1:12 chrome lined...
I have one and the profile is correct and it's chrome lined, even says so at their site. Uh... And you already had it on your spreadsheet. Dang my reading comprehension! |
Vintage Ain't Retro.
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Originally Posted By 44Echo10:
Damage Industries DD 16" Barrel Originally Posted By 44Echo10:
Damage Industries DD 16" Barrel Not sure on the measurements of that, plus it is listed as a close-out, so it may not come back in stock. Originally Posted By pridetuba:
You wight want to add Top Notch Top Ends barrel assemblies to the spreadsheet. They have all the combinations of FSB's and barrel extensions. 1/12, 4150 steel with chrome bore and chamber. They are a small operation that take a while to fill orders, but they definitely have good products coming out of their shop. I actually think they make those assemblies with Green mountain barrels. If you look at the number of ways that offer that, it matches the Green mountain extension options, but with different height FSB's for both. The Black Hole Weaponry assembly also gives me this impression as I have never seen BHW sell their barrels in any form but stripped (great barrels though!). I will add them as another option to get an assembled barrel! Originally Posted By Z09SS:
AR15Sport.com I have one and the profile is correct and it's chrome lined, even says so at their site. Uh... And you already had it on your spreadsheet. Dang my reading comprehension! That sight was one of the first places I looked when trying to find a barrel for my build! I've had all 3 of their A1 profile offerings already on the sheet since the beginning.
Updating the Sheet to add Top Notch Top End's A1 assemblies. Also adding a source and pricing for some of Brick's moderators |
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Updated information from Brownell's
Originally Posted By Brownells:
M16A1 Barrels are back in stock. The images haven't been updated yet, but these now ship with a flat slip ring, standard front sight base and correct profile under the hand guard. New images should post in the coming days. Here is what we have in the works: 12.7" 5.56 1-12 Lightweight Barrel with Front Sight Base, Flat Slip Ring & Rifle Feedramps 14.7" 5.56 1-12 Lightweight Barrel with Front Sight Base, Flat Slip Ring & Rifle Feedramps 16" 5.56 1-12 Lightweight Barrel with Front Sight Base, Flat Slip Ring & Rifle Feedramps 20" 5.56 1-7 Lightweight Barrel with Front Sight Base, Flat Slip Ring & Rifle Feedramps 20" 5.56 1-7 Lightweight Stripped Barrel with M4 Feedramps Additionally, BoyWonder asked me to add some 1/7 barrels that he had created for the Retro folks. They are a 1:7 twist, CMMG barrels with M4 ramps, correct profile, and all-colt surplus parts installed for $265. Full info has been added to the sheet |
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Fyi, the new batch of Brownell's barrels is out. Mine was on backorder for a few months and arrived yesterday.
1:12 twist, rifle extension, reproduction slip ring, non-F marked FSB. Looks like laser engraving under the handguard area. Pretty darn perfect for a retro build. Does not come with front site hardware (sight post, sling swivel, etc) 
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Originally Posted By lgm118icbm:
Fyi, the new batch of Brownell's barrels is out. Mine was on backorder for a few months and arrived yesterday. 1:12 twist, rifle extension, reproduction slip ring, non-F marked FSB. Looks like laser engraving under the handguard area. Pretty darn perfect for a retro build. Does not come with front site hardware (sight post, sling swivel, etc) Yup! Brownell's confirmed with us last month or so that the new batch had the right FSB and slip ring. Please share your input on the barrel when you get to shooting it as I know there are quite a few who would like to hear about its performance. |
| That reminds us... our 20" GUNNER Barrel now is equipped with 1.9" gas block journal and is nearly identical to the A1 profile. |
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Originally Posted By DMark: How is it that this thread hasn't been pinned? A lot of retro goodness for anybody looking for a barrel. So...., Back Up to the Top! The thread hasn't been pinned, but it has been set not to archive so it will always show in active topics but may rotate to the back page. |
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Originally Posted By RogueNathan:
That reminds us... our 20" GUNNER Barrel now is equipped with 1.9" gas block journal and is nearly identical to the A1 profile. Originally Posted By RogueNathan:
That reminds us... our 20" GUNNER Barrel now is equipped with 1.9" gas block journal and is nearly identical to the A1 profile. Thanks for the update! Is it still a bit thinner out in front of the gas block or has that changed too? Originally Posted By DMark:
How is it that this thread hasn't been pinned? A lot of retro goodness for anybody looking for a barrel. So...., Back Up to the Top! As was said above, it has been set to not-archive mode. If nothing else it would be nice to have a link to it added in the "Information Links" thread at the top of the forums. Not sure what that would take, although if it really is as simple as asking the mod, I should probably do that. Also, when last trying to find my own link, I discovered someone had written about it in their blog. WeaponsMan Wednesday Weapons Website of the Week: Retro Barrel Spreadsheet It's cool to be "featured" but I don't think they guy actually read the post because he goes on about how I've included "so many grossly non-retro barrels". If he read the thread he'd know a lot of that was for people who wanted to cut stuff down or were OK with settling. It even clearly states what is not accurate in the sheet. 
The creator of the document updates it based on requests in this thread in Arfcom Retro. The reason so many grossly non-retro barrels are on the list, then, is because retro n00bs and barrel makers have sent them to that thread, and the maintainer rolls them in as he gets them. "retro n00bs"? Barrel Makers? Pretty sure no one paid me to add anything and people have suggested things I have turned down / not added because they were way off. I wouldn't call the people here noobs either. Naturally by the time I found the post the comments had been disabled and there is no way to contact the guy to explain why I did X or Y. |
Retro Barrel Source Spreadsheet (Page 1 of 2)
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