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Posted: 7/19/2013 6:51:22 PM EDT
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I am doing some homework on the 607. I see there are some with forward assist, some without... some have the 3.5 moderator, some have a 3-prong... So, I guess what I'm trying to learn is do the non-forward assist 607s "go with" the 3-prong and the forward assist guns use the 3.5 inch moderator; or would an combo of these parts be "correct"?
Any 607 experts here with the details? Thanks! John Thomas |
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Im certainly not an expert, but I believe there are photos out there of the Knight collection with 607's in various configurations.
I dont think there is a right or wrong with them, and especially since there were only used by a special forces group that had much leeway in their weapons setup and selections. I need to get up to Rock Island to have a look at their retro AR collection, havnt been up in a long time. |
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Im certainly not an expert, but I believe there are photos out there of the Knight collection with 607's in various configurations. I dont think there is a right or wrong with them, and especially since there were only used by a special forces group that had much leeway in their weapons setup and selections. I need to get up to Rock Island to have a look at their retro AR collection, havnt been up in a long time. Kalahnikid, Thanks for the info. Are you, by chance, located near me? I'm in Warsaw, IL where MO, IL, and IA all join together. John Thomas |
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Kalahnikid, Thanks for the info. Are you, by chance, located near me? I'm in Warsaw, IL where MO, IL, and IA all join together. John Thomas Quoted:
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Im certainly not an expert, but I believe there are photos out there of the Knight collection with 607's in various configurations. I dont think there is a right or wrong with them, and especially since there were only used by a special forces group that had much leeway in their weapons setup and selections. I need to get up to Rock Island to have a look at their retro AR collection, havnt been up in a long time. Kalahnikid, Thanks for the info. Are you, by chance, located near me? I'm in Warsaw, IL where MO, IL, and IA all join together. John Thomas Peoria basically 
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Ah, that's not too far... My wife is going to Washington, IL in the morning for a big bike ride. So, you've been to Rock Island before? I have never been up there. Are the guns on display easy to see and get details from? Thanks, John Thomas I havnt been in a dozen years. They're in along a wall with glass in front, you can stand a few feet in front of them. Unfortunately you cant get super close to see certain details. |
| John, the 607 by definition, was a work in progress culminating with its dismissal and introduction of the XM177. The 607 can generally be seen in any of four common configurations. All used the characteristic black Fiberglas CAR buttstock, with the cut down, triangle handgaurds. Some had forward assists, some not. Some had moderators, some not. Those that did have moderators, didn't have flash holes in th though. That was a trait added onto th 177 family as far as I know. Somewhere in my collection I have a photocopy of a Colt sales brochure, promoting a 607 with a regular trident flash hider as "The CAR15, a backup weapon for crews of large weapon operators." Or something like that. The idea was that this little carbine, being lightweight might appeal to a guy who has to pack a component of a crew served weapon for immediate use. |
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I think the basic evolution follows the evolution of the AR15 platform in a way. The first 607 prototype seems to have been built on a 602. As the XM16E1 came into play, you saw more of it's features on the 607s. As the 607 was more seriously tested and taken into the field, you'd see more features in common with the XM16E1, as well as the 3.5 moderator. In the field, with no replacement parts, you'd probably get all sorts of variations with the handful of test weapons.
In the early stages, it was probably very much, a frankengun of various parts. I think though, that as it was taken more seriously it was moved toward a more standard build sheet. Eventually, it evolved into the XM177 and XM177E1 (Air Force and Army, respectively). |
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There is a decent article on Warboats.org, written by Robert "bob" Stoner concerning the evolution of the Car15 series carbines.
addy.........http://www.warboats.org/stonerordnotes/XM177%20R4.html I found found info on the 607's/GX5857's to be quite "cloudy" You'll find one source that says one thing and another source that will contradict that. Generally, it is stated that the Car15 Commando/607/GX5857 was first developed by Colt in 1964. Along the lines of contradictory information is the situation of "museum" pieces. My best example of the situation is the GX5857 on display at the Virginia War Museum. The information plaque on the display has it described as an XM177. |
| Form what I understand, the moderator was designed as a solution to the huge muzzle blast from a regular FH, but never really did the job that well. The 4.5" moderator was a 2nd model improvement. As a result, 607's could be found with all three. Another factor was the personal preferences of the operator. Very few 607s actually saw combat from what I understand, most with Seal Team 2. They tried both front and rear halves of the standard HGs as shown in TBR. I have to say, despite having small hands, I actually prefer the rear half models (ala LaFrance). As far as upper receivers went, they used both, but I've only seen one pic of one with a FA. ALL 607s were basically toolroom test models, so anything pretty much goes AFAIK. |
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Do you know the correct outside diameter for the 3.5 inch moderator? Thanks, John Thomas Quoted:
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I don't have a link, but back when I made my faux moderstors, there were pics of moderators longer than 3 1/2" without slots...  Do you know the correct outside diameter for the 3.5 inch moderator? Thanks, John Thomas Same as the 4.5 - they were just longer. Remember, guys liked to tape up the slots on the 4.5" mods with old-style (not PVC) electrical tape. You can still get this tape - I bought some at Home Despot the other day. |
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Do you know the correct outside diameter for the 3.5 inch moderator? Thanks, John Thomas Quoted:
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I don't have a link, but back when I made my faux moderstors, there were pics of moderators longer than 3 1/2" without slots... Do you know the correct outside diameter for the 3.5 inch moderator? Thanks, John Thomas John, going off my memory, it is the same as the 4.25 inch moderator. I don't the prints of the 4.25 handy, they're at my shop. Someone should have a link to them though. (I'll look) I don't think I've ever actually seen a print of the 3.5 inch model, but what I've done is scaled numerous pictures of each model mounted on barrels and scaled them. Knowing barrel diameter and knowing the 4.25 inch model diameter from copies of original Colt prints, scaling them should result in a fairly accurate "guess". edit.....here is the addy for a thread on the 4.25" moderator. Looks like there is agreement that the 3.5 inch one is the same diemeter as the 4 1/4. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_4/246182_xm_177_xm177e2_moderator.html 2nd edit......length should have been stated as 4.5 inch. |
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edit.....here is the addy for a thread on the 4.25" moderator. Looks like there is agreement that the 3.5 inch one is the same diemeter as the 4 1/4. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_4/246182_xm_177_xm177e2_moderator.html I think it is hilarious that the above link/thread is from the Build It Yourself forum... 
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What is that last man in the 2nd row holding??? Is that a Stoner??? Quoted:
What is that last man in the 2nd row holding??? Is that a Stoner??? Looks like it |
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There is a decent article on Warboats.org, written by Robert "bob" Stoner concerning the evolution of the Car15 series carbines. addy.........http://www.warboats.org/stonerordnotes/XM177%20R4.html I can only connect like this - http://www.warboats.org/stonerordnotes/XM177 R4.html |
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What is that last man in the middle row holding [with sling]??? Is that a Stoner??? Quoted:
What is that last man in the middle row holding [with sling]??? Is that a Stoner??? Yep. Here's a stoner with a Stoner. 
I've wanted one since I read Darryl's book, "The Element of Surprise" |
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