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Posted: 6/9/2013 3:44:48 PM EDT
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Ok guys i need your help (forgive me i'm about to get wordy here).
I'd been toying around with making an ar15 in to look like an early M16 since all this craziness it seems like everyone in the western world is going into the tacticool market. Being an antique rifle collector owning 15 black rifles weighing 25lbs a piece didn't appeal to me. Now don't get me wrong i love the ar platform and i have a nice flat top ar kitted out properly. Anyway i happened to walk into a local gun shop and i saw an old Colt SP1 "modded" up with quad rails and just about everything else you could feasibly strap onto an ar. The thing was the guy behind the counter had no idea what he had and so after some careful negotiating I took the old girl home for $500. She needed a lot of work as she looked like she had been kitted out then left in an attic for the last year or so gathering dust (not that the rifle had been treated that well up until that point anyway!). In any case i got it home and fitted some A1 furniture to it that i had lying around. I also took off the Troy industries brake and threw on a standard birdcage flash hider. I am waiting on some parts i had to order to fit the stock as well as a tear drop forward assist. MY QUESTION IS: Where do i go from here...once i have the correct stock and FAD installed what should I make this thing look like an xm16e1, leave it as it is, or bring it as close to original factory roll off as possible?If the latter does anyone have ref pics of a Colt SP1 i could use or any advice? I have been using this thread mainly for my build so far: http://www.ar15.com/mobile/topic.html?b=3&f=123&t=294264 p.s. please excuse my wife in the pic she wanted to make sure her "butt wasn't in the picture" or else she promised she would stick my latest purchase up mine... p.p.s if this should be in the retro forums feel free to move Pics: http://imageshack.us/a/img855/1927/45624499.jpg http://imageshack.us/a/img834/6633/99478205.jpg http://imageshack.us/a/img20/5900/37108822.jpg http://imageshack.us/a/img266/8210/94981391.jpg |
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The upper is a Canadian C7 type upper with A1 sight, forward assist, and brass deflector. The civilian SP1 did not have the forward assist or brass deflector and the M16A1 did not have the brass deflector. Yours also has a .750 barrel, like a C7. You could put round handguards on it and make a retro C7 replica.
The lower is SP1 type, even though it says AR 15A2/ Sporter II. It's a good looking rifle (once you put the rifle stock on in place of that DPMS carbine stock). And the price was right. There is a sight called Retroblackrifle.com that has great reference info for the retro AR's & M16's. You would get more response on the retro page. |
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Nice rifle.
The answer to your question depends on how obsessive you want to get about authenticity. The differences between your rifle and an A1 that I see immediately (aside from the stock and FA) are (1) the barrel has an A2 profile ahead of the front sight, (2) the "delta" or slip ring that holds the handguard on is A2 style, (3) the "C7" style brass deflector on the upper, and (4) the lower lacks the fence around the mag release which was added when the M16 became the M16A1. There's lots of good information at http://www.retroblackrifle.com/. Click the "Military Rifles" link on the left, and then look at the "Colt Model 603" links. If you just want a retro-ish shooter, I wouldn't do too much more. IMO it's a practical setup. Just shoot it and have fun. |
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Forgot to mention the handguard ring...I ordered one of those also. Thanks for the info. I do have a pair of round hand guards so that might be my best bet. I had noticed the barrel was a later type especially as it's a 1:7 twist.
I should also apologize for my poor terminology that was a mistake i kept putting A1 i guess i meant i was building an M16/Xm16e1 type rifle so the lack of fence on the lower was a plus for me I think once i get the ring, FAD and stock installed i may leave it as it is but the brass deflector and barrel are annoyances (sorry i'm a perfectionist). I have found a bunch of A1 uppers (new) online but i was wondering anyone would recommend a reputable site to buy one from? I was looking at this one: a1 upper any links to a good barrel for the type would be welcome also. I think for the time being i'll finish up my build with what i have coming then eventually get a new upper and barrel. Thanks again for all the help will be posting back here. ALSO: if a mod happens to swing by this thread can you please move it to the retro section? |
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Forgot to mention the handguard ring...I ordered one of those also. Thanks for the info. I do have a pair of round hand guards so that might be my best bet. I had noticed the barrel was a later type especially as it's a 1:7 twist. If you were going to go C7, the tapered 'Delta ring' would be correct. And it would have the round handguards. But since you ordered a flat slip ring, you might as well start a new retro build. 
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Forgot to mention the handguard ring...I ordered one of those also. Thanks for the info. I do have a pair of round hand guards so that might be my best bet. I had noticed the barrel was a later type especially as it's a 1:7 twist. If you were going to go C7, the tapered 'Delta ring' would be correct. And it would have the round handguards. But since you ordered a flat slip ring, you might as well start a new retro build.
haha my thought exactly...now i already went off half cocked i mays well just jump in with both feet! <- love to mix my metaphors! would also have to replace the earlier type grip with an a2 type for the diemaco i guess...although i have a drawer full of those so that wouldn't be a problem |
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Retro black rifles are like Lay's potato chips, you can't have just one  I would use the upper assembly for a C7 build and then find a complete SP1 20" upper, which will be perfect for that large-hole SPII lower and voila  Yeah that's what I decided to do last night. This is now going to end up being two rifles there will be an xm16 type rifle and the upper will be a c7 build. My wife is going to kill me. secondly you bring up a good point. I know there are companies out there that make take down pins that allow you pin a large hole lower to a normal hole upper and vice versa can someone link me to one? |
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Something like this upper would fix you right up.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=346111182 Then you can find a lower for your C7 upper and then you are going to have an extra buttstock, so you will have to build a gun around that.......... At least that's how it's been working for me. |
| Yep that's what i'm going to do probably order a complete upper and then do a C7 build. I almost hate to order a complete upper instead of building one myself. It feels like cheating but I can't see to find a 20" barrel in the right profile anywhere in the US to order :( Thanks for all the information guys. Will post the pics up here when i get done with this build or as I make progress then I'll make a new thread for the C7 lol. |
One of my recent projects: RRA Lower/RRA Lower Parts Kit/ USGI Buttstock/ USGI Colt M16 Surplus 1/12 Upper/USGI A1 Handgrip. Re-anodized Lower/Charging Handle Colt Gray by US Anodizing, Chrome Bolt/Carrier Not a match grade AR, but a fairly faithful retro m16A1 that's fun at the range and handles 55FMJ's very nicely...without any hiccups. Yes..this should be on the Retro Forum. |
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<a href="http://s32.photobucket.com/user/drshame/media/NewColor.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d13/drshame/NewColor.jpg</a> One of my recent projects: RRA Lower/RRA Lower Parts Kit/ USGI Buttstock/ USGI Colt M16 Surplus 1/12 Upper/USGI A1 Handgrip. Re-anodized Lower/Charging Handle Colt Gray by US Anodizing, Chrome Bolt/Carrier Not a match grade AR, but a fairly faithful retro m16A1 that's fun at the range and handles 55FMJ's very nicely...without any hiccups. Yes..this should be on the Retro Forum. Amazing Job... Making me drool. My current plans with mine now are two builds...one a colt model 602 and the other a diemaco C7...post some more pics! |
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Quoted: Throw that Type E stock on it, next some Round Rifle Handguards, an A2 pistol grip, and replace that Slip Ring with a Delta Ring. Then it would be very close to a perfect Canadian M16E2 type clone. OR just slap the stock on and call it Betsy. This gets my vote, except it looks like he already has a delta ring. The only thing lacking would be the mag button fence on the lower, but I wouldn't worry about it:  |
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Throw that Type E stock on it, next some Round Rifle Handguards, an A2 pistol grip, and replace that Slip Ring with a Delta Ring. Then it would be very close to a perfect Canadian M16E2 type clone. OR just slap the stock on and call it Betsy. This gets my vote, except it looks like he already has a delta ring. The only thing lacking would be the mag button fence on the lower, but I wouldn't worry about it: Well on that note does anyone know any company that sells a good fenced lower in colt grey? |
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Throw that Type E stock on it, next some Round Rifle Handguards, an A2 pistol grip, and replace that Slip Ring with a Delta Ring. Then it would be very close to a perfect Canadian M16E2 type clone. OR just slap the stock on and call it Betsy. This gets my vote, except it looks like he already has a delta ring. The only thing lacking would be the mag button fence on the lower, but I wouldn't worry about it: Well on that note does anyone know any company that sells a good fenced lower in colt grey? Not sure when they'll do another run, but give Harlan & Mike @ NoDak Spud a call. |
Update...so the lower is finished other than swapping out some take down pins and some other small parts. The upper is going to be swapped out next week and that upper is going towards my C7 build.
Took her to the range today just for a quick run through at 100 yards and she worked flawlessly. Almost a shame to break it up into two rifles but hey ho. |
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Actually that's the part i'm struggling with right now. I'm actually considering manufacturing some myself. to be honest i'm 99% sure that's what i'm going to do. Will post pics up here. If i can get a process worked out where they will be good looking enough and strong enough for service i'll make a bunch and offer them up for sale but that will be a ways off.
on that note if someone can get me rough dimensions on the pins i'd appreciate it. Clearly if i'm working with SP1/SP2 parts the dimensions will be different but i need to manufacture as close as possible. PS....it looks as though the front take down pin was a divot on one side and a flat smooth circle on the other side can someone confirm this? alternately... you could try NoDak Spud but i dont know if their takedown pins work with sp1 type lowers. |
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Ok new upper parts arrived today just waiting on the correct flash hider now...I need your guys help again....
i'm now changing this build into a Colt 602 build, i think i have found a good stock with the correct buttpad but I was wondering if anyone knew where I can find a slick-side chrome bcg...i know youngs did one but they all seem to be sold out so any other ideas? Finally does anyone know of an LPK that comes in XM gray? I can modify it myself to fit look like the 602 originals but i'd prefer not to have to duracoat such small parts etc. As always help is appreciated you guys have been amazing in getting me into retro AR's |
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