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Posted: 1/23/2013 8:06:32 AM EDT
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I bought a real nice AR-15 last week with a real low PWA serial # lower 0036** lower and need help Identifying the upper. it appears to be an M16 upper with the auto sear cutout.it has a
SAK MP CHROME BORE barrel. there are now markings on the upper or the FSB. I will try to post some pictures and see if someone can tell me what they think. http://s275.beta.photobucket.com/user/captainhighjack/library/ i hope i did that right. |
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well.........I'm pretty much a newbie too, but a couple things I can tell you are........
doesn't appear to have the Colt proofmarks just forward of the ejection port.........your first picture...........although, it could have them if thats a heavy refinish......or.........could be a Colt replacement upper which woldn;t have the proof marks.........believe teh proof marks were applied to complete rifles only. ......has a late ejection port door..........not the correct one. ......also believe that it should a straight slip ring........not the delta one that you have. .....appears to be a "D" model stock A nice find overall........not exactly correct in all parts, but a nice rifle to get your feet wet as far as retro goes. I think the D stock would be more correct with a teardrop forward assist. again, I'm a newb at this stuff too, but I'm sure someone will be along that can tell you much more than moi. |
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Mid - late seventies vintage replacement upper. SAK barrels are great - have a rep for accuracy, but there's been some debate - regardless, great upper. Large FA is hard to find - they didn't make them long. Will not function on A2 lower FWIW. All in all, pretty nice.
ETA: Slip ring is NOT incorrect for that time frame. Early stuff had flat slip rings - the Delta ring was in use on carbines and M16A1s as early as 1968. Also, hole in buttstock screw is correct - it was an M16A1 improvement - again, about '68. I recommend you guys spend some time perusing Ekies guide at the top - lots of good info there - hard to remember everything though.  I screw up dates periodically myself.
ETA: Upper receiver is Colt, likely Xm16E1 NOS used for replacement. If COlt assembled it,you would have proof marks. No biggy either way you ask me. Check the front pivot hole - I would bet you it's rebated. Early uppers with later barrels are pretty common. Teardrop FA would be a good idea - sell the big head to some guy doing a BHD build. |
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Quoted:
thanks for the information. when i confirm ejection port is A2 i will replace it. do you think its a colt replacement upper. with no markings? Yes. And it is an A2 port door, but would be correct for the period. I'd replace the FA and keep an eye open for a door, but I wouldn't stress about it. |
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Quoted:
My vote is for Norinco. It looks just like an upper i picked up recently that was sold to me as a colt. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/Revolver0celot/20130106_141141.jpg I agree, the metal looks way too rough. OP, post a pic of the left side of the upper. |
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Almost have to agree with the Norinco upper and I only say this because I've had eight of the surplus arsenal re-build XM16E1 uppers with a variety of replacement barrels and all were round forge with early gas tubes, original finish and no Colt proofs. It's not impossible to believe they would have had a square forge replacement receiver laying around but not really in that time frame IMO.
Being on the PWA (edit) lower does question my reasoning based on my authentic surplus upper experience. PWA (edit) did use about anything they could get their hands on using a mix of surplus and commercial parts. |
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is there any evidence that norinco uppers were ever imported? i wasn't aware of any ar15 clones imported by norinco before the ban.
I definately don't know about the Norinco AR platform except I remember handling a few of them. Don't remember pre or post ban on AR's but had a load of N China weapons before the Clinton ban mostly SKS and a few AK's so I'm thinking yes to the AR also. Back then a retro as we call them today was a much more reasonably priced higher quality piece than a NIB Norinco AR IMO. |
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is there any evidence that norinco uppers were ever imported? i wasn't aware of any ar15 clones imported by norinco before the ban. The guy i bought one form said he had another. He was under the impression that they were older colt uppers. After figuring out it was a norinco i sent it back to him and he refunded the cost and shipping. Stand up guy. |
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I was under the impression that PWA did not make complet
Rifles. Just lowers an I'm unsure if the sold stripped lowers or Assembled. And I would also think that anyone today building a rifle Is using military surplus and commercial parts to complete the build. Why would someone put a Saco barrel on a Chinese upper. Or is Saco Chinese lol. |
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I was under the impression that PWA did not make complete Rifles
They did. They also used just about anything they could get their hands on for parts as previously stated. As for the why on the possibly mix match upper barrel combo? To sell! in AR frenzy right now. That possibly could be the third we've seen in the last month. Sincerely hope it's a re-arsenal upper. Shooting it should tell the barrel story unless you have an erosion guage but I'd still give it a run. |
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Yes it's preban What do you think it's worth? Virtually worthless  , better off just dumping it while you can - how does $500 sound?
You should go ahead and post in the appraisal thread! http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_123/523435_OFFICIAL_APPRAISAL_THREAD_REQUESTS_FOR_APPRAISALS_ONLY_IN_THIS_THREAD.html (Sorry, cant figure out how to make links hot!) |
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That's Ok, it's not for sale. I shot it today and it shoots fine. I will post a detailed picture of the left side
Glad to hear it's GTG. IMO PWA lower would be worth hanging on to in the AR collection simply because they were basically the forerunner for the BIY AR hobby that many enjoy today. Need some coins it has and will have great value in the not so free states. Never were my thing and by the time I became minutely interested the prices had escalated far beyond whst I'm willing to spend for one. Is nice to see a pic or handle one every now and then. Glad you're enjoying it and look forward to pics. |
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I will post more, if it is a norinco upper is it illegal to own? Like Cuban cigars? If they were not legally imported? As the PWA lower it is probably the rarest of the rare
I have been emailing a person at LMT and they said they made the lowers for PWA and they have no record of a lower with a four digit serial number starting with 0036** they said they have no verify if they did. So they can't tell me when it was made.so if anyone out ther has info let me know. And thanks again for helping me out |
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Quoted:
I will post more, if it is a norinco upper is it illegal to own? Like Cuban cigars? If they were not legally imported? As the PWA lower it is probably the rarest of the rare I have been emailing a person at LMT and they said they made the lowers for PWA and they have no record of a lower with a four digit serial number starting with 0036** they said they have no verify if they did. So they can't tell me when it was made.so if anyone out ther has info let me know. And thanks again for helping me out I did a little research when I found out what I had. About 200 Norinco AR's were imported right before the 94 ban, but they are still imported into Canada. While I imagine a remote possibility that it was illegal to import the parts, I don't believe they are illegal to own. Definitely not in the Cuba sense - we don't have an embargo on China. |
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