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Posted: 12/8/2011 5:51:40 PM EDT
I have been shown proof that about 800 Delft scopes were produced for the Colt 601.  The big question is "where did they all go"?  The Dutch have a similar question about the AR10 rifles serial numbered about 005000 to about 006000 and it is commonly believed that the rifles were bought up by the CIA and are now moldering in some government warehouse.  Anyway, back to the Delfts.  I have tried to record as many Delft serial numbers as possible in an attempt to put scope production in perspective for the various Delft variants.  It is possible for many of these serial numbers to pinpoint the month they were ordered from A.I.  

For example
Olgunners Nr. 316, July 1960 order of 25 scopes
WaffenJaeger Nr. 1061, Sept 1962 order of 35 scopes
tgus Nr. 1050, Sept 1962 order of 35 scopes
tgus Nr. 868, Nov 1960 order of 475 scopes
WaffenUndBier (armalite florida) Nr. 858, Nov 1960 order of 475 scopes

Post or email a photo of your 601 Delft serial number and I will tell you when it was ordered.  If enough serial numbers are collected then it might become clear if there is some pattern to which scopes are missing.

[note: as of Feb-15-2012 nobody has emailed with additional serial numbers.]
Link Posted: 12/9/2011 5:32:23 AM EDT
[#1]
Unfortunately I have no serial number to report..............

Just wanted to say how neat it is your putting together a list.  Hopefully you'll uncover some good info.
Link Posted: 12/9/2011 10:34:07 PM EDT
[#2]
Holy cow, that is great info to have!  Thanks much for finding that out!

So do you have any info about when the first and last orders were placed?  Were there orders before July '60 or after September '62, or was that the full duration of the Delfts?

"Moldering in some government warehouse" reminds me of the ending of Raiders of the Lost Ark.  Man, I'd really like to find that warehouse!  
Link Posted: 12/10/2011 4:16:49 AM EDT
[#3]
January 1960 - July 1963

If some were left behind in a Vietnam warehouse then they will eventually end up on the market by Vietnamese capitalists.  Me thinks Uncle Sam might feed them to Colonel Crunch.
Link Posted: 12/10/2011 12:02:54 PM EDT
[#4]
The double Agency does a lot of sourcing of weapons regionally as demand arises, but has been known to contract no-name machine shops to make weapons for them, as was done with POM Park-on-Meter, Inc. out of Russelville, Arkansas.  This was one of the black weapon manufacturers for the Contras, since you couldn't have Pony-logo M16A1's floating around Central America after the Boland Amendment was passed by the communists & useful idiots within our own Congress, like John Kerry and Tip O'Neil.  

If the CIA did have control over some AR10's back in the day, they were most likely farmed out to some foreign despot to make America look like the bad guys, as they have so successfully done every chance they have in the 3rd World and in international media.

Maybe a few SOD officers kept some as memorabilia for personal collections, so as they pass away, there might be a chance for them to discreetly transfer into private buyers' hands, as long as trace records aren't run through NICS.
Link Posted: 12/10/2011 2:23:43 PM EDT
[#5]
The Colt 601 scope is very similar to the first model AR10 scope shown below.  In fact, the serial number ranges seem to be shared.  Not many of these have been seen (by me) beyond the few examples shown in manuals.  It looks like the Knight collection may have a few, but it is difficult to say without better photos.

Olgunner, if you want one of those wrenches I will send you one to duplicate.

Link Posted: 12/21/2011 8:01:42 PM EDT
[#6]
Here is how that tool works. Use it to adjust windage and elevation. The scope shown is for a Portuguese contract AR10, althought all of the Delft variants use the tool in the same way.



Link Posted: 12/21/2011 10:40:49 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Man, I'd really like to find that warehouse!  


It's in Nevada, near the old nuclear testing grounds.
Link Posted: 12/22/2011 3:13:08 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
The double Agency does a lot of sourcing of weapons regionally as demand arises, but has been known to contract no-name machine shops to make weapons for them, as was done with POM Park-on-Meter, Inc. out of Russelville, Arkansas.  This was one of the black weapon manufacturers for the Contras, since you couldn't have Pony-logo M16A1's floating around Central America after the Boland Amendment was passed by the communists & useful idiots within our own Congress, like John Kerry and Tip O'Neil.  


Where can I read about this?

Link Posted: 1/4/2012 8:17:19 PM EDT
[#9]
There is yet another variant of the Delft scopes that is marked K.R.R. A.I. 62.  The abbreviation K.R.R. stands for "Kijker Richt Recht"
which means "Right Point Viewer".  This particular 3.6x25 scope was made for the Dutch FAL rifle (7.62x51) towards the end of
production of the Colt 601 scope.  About 1000 of the scopes were ordered in 1962.  About 885 of the K.R.R. A.I. 62 scopes were
actually delivered.  Besides the markings, the unique features of these FAL scopes are listed below:
1.  Gas filled (other Delfts were not)
2.  Rubber eyepiece, removable
3.  Aluminum sunshade, removable

The really cool thing about the K.R.R. A.I. 62 scope is that once removed from its mount it has the same threaded rod attachment system
as the first model AR10 scope.  Only a slight modification of the red gas plug needs to be performed in order to get cleareance to mount
the FAL scope on a sniper Sudan AR10.  I assume there is a nondestructive way to remove the threaded rod and allow the scope to be
mounted on a Colt 601 using.

Below is a photo comparing the K.R.R. A.I. 62 FAL scope (top) to the first model AR10 scope (bottom).  Note the red gas plug and the eyepiece.


Below is a photo showing the K.R.R. A.I. 62 scope mounted on a FAL topcover.  These scopes were carried in an ugly green can rather
than the canvas pouch used for the Colt 601 and AR10.  Notice the adjustment tool lives in the ugly can.
Link Posted: 1/27/2012 8:22:25 PM EDT
[#10]
And here is a Delft scope mounted on a Sudanese AR10 upper.
A trained eye can see that it is actually the KRR AI 62 scope rather that the first-model AR10 scope.
Link Posted: 2/8/2012 2:30:00 PM EDT
[#11]
There are several AR10 owners in the Netherlands who have attempted to mount the KRR scopes on their Portos.  Shown below is a second generation mount developed by a Dutch sport shooter for his own personal use.  (not for sale!)  Some of you will certainly notice that the mount was fashioned to make it look like a genuine Porto scope, rather than the FAL (KRR) scope.  At some point the owner plans to eliminate the strap and attach the mount to the carry handle using one or two small screws.  There also exists a mount that AI made that will mate a KRR scope with a scope-ready Porto upper.  I have requested photos...

Stef?  How about posting a photo of your KRR mount?



Link Posted: 2/8/2012 7:16:43 PM EDT
[#12]
I can only make a guess...

Using as an example WaffenUndBier (armalite florida) Nr. 858, Nov 1960 order of 475 scopes.

We relative newcomers are scrambling to find examples of what was once common.  Some, like HHollow, have become SMEs and assembled incredible collections, so far as we are concerned.

Yet, history has demonstrated that tens of thousands of guns have "disappeared."   For example, the many thousands of Lugers imported in the 1950s and 1960s.    Every couple weeks one trickles out into the current collector market;  yet, tens of thousands of old Lugers remain unidentified.

Similarly, and quite likely indicitive of the situation, are the 188 Lithgow L1A1s imported by Joe Poyer in the late 1980s.   Of 188 of these rifles, fewer than a dozen have surfaced over the last decade.  These particular rifles have changed hands many times, making it appear that there is trade in the Poyer L1A1s.   But, relatively, that is not the case.  Though one can argue specific quantities, it is quite certain that more than 150 of these Poyer L1A1 have not, in the last decade, been traded or seen on the general (i.e., internet) market.   Where are these 150+ Poyer L1A1s?  Who has them?    Some languish in obscure collections, and some reside in massive collections.    Typically, the former are the ones to come into the marketplace when the owner passes.    That leaves, still, about 150 Poyer L1A1s that are in collections maintained by significant, but quiet, collectors who are aged, not typically actively involved in the hobby, and overall are pretty darned quiet about what they have.   These latter aged collectors, in my observation, have no need to sell, and have for various reasons, not advertised that they own these rare examples.    HHollow, I think, having chased down rare AR10 parts, may concur.

So where are thes 475 WuB scopes imported into USA?  Undoubtedly, some suffered sad endings, and are lost forever.   A very few, maybe three or four, trade irregularly (i.e., every few years) on the commercial market amongst us "new" collectors.   If anecdotal evidence is correctly correlated, there are more, with or without the rifles, that trade quietly between the high end collectors.   But the majority, I believe, sit in large collections, owned by aged mass-collectors that have not the time, need, or energy to sell.
Link Posted: 2/9/2012 1:26:35 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
There are several AR10 owners in the Netherlands who have attempted to mount the KRR scopes on their Portos.  Shown below is a second generation mount developed by a Dutch sport shooter for his own personal use.  (not for sale!)  Some of you will certainly notice that the mount was fashioned to make it look like a genuine Porto scope was made, rather than the FAL (KRR) scope.  At some point the owner plans to eliminate the strap and attach the mount to the carry handle using one or two small screws.

Stef?  How about posting a photo of your KRR mount?

http://oi40.tinypic.com/1zz2u0n.jpg


Hi HHollow
The mount is ready but Ton still has to anodize it.
As soon I get it back i will send some pics.
My scope came without the tool.
If Olgunner is replicating it, can he make me one too ?
Link Posted: 4/4/2012 3:40:08 PM EDT
[#14]
For reference....
Link to olgunner's Delft wrench story

Once upon a time olgunner decided he wanted a wrench for adjustment of his scope.  A wrench was made using good old american elbow greese and a bit of creativity.

The skinny one is real. The fat one is olgunner's creation.
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