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Posted: 11/27/2009 10:11:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/29/2009 4:09:14 AM EDT by mike_nds]
Link Posted: 11/27/2009 10:40:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/27/2009 10:40:28 AM EDT by RLR350]
Looking forward to it. As I recall you were using a set screw FSB on that. This will be good info!
Link Posted: 11/27/2009 11:40:37 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/27/2009 11:52:57 AM EDT
I really want to see this so I can change out my standard FSB for a low-po gas block with flip up sight.
Link Posted: 11/27/2009 1:06:25 PM EDT
Tagage!!
Link Posted: 11/27/2009 1:25:43 PM EDT
Thanks Mike!

There are obviously several ways to do a FSB install...

A few different ways to do it with roll pins, a couple few different ways with set screws, and a few different ways with taper pins. Some are wrong ways, many are acceptable, and a couple are the right way.

I prefer taper pins, but it's by far the most tedious and easiest to screw up on if done wrong. I've done two virgin FSB installs in my garage with simple tools and nothing more intricate than a 2/0 reamer and decent drill press. It would have been wonderful to have a correct jig (there are a few different types of those out there too), but I managed without it. I did mine an acceptable way, but there was a very good chance of screwing them up if not careful. I was lucky in two aspects; I had the money to burn if I ended up needing to ship my screw-up to Steve at ADCO, and the end-all being I was lucky and nothing was canted or over-reamed. :)

I guess you're going to do an install on previously drilled FSB and barrel? If so, and you use tapers, that's got to take some talent...and definately more than garage tools lol.

Looking forward.
Link Posted: 11/27/2009 1:35:34 PM EDT
I have heard that Bravo CO is going to start sell jigs, they are set up for F-height FSB, but I bet that with the corrent shim....
Link Posted: 11/27/2009 4:50:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/27/2009 4:52:17 PM EDT by comp1911]
Originally Posted By LonghunterCO:
I have heard that Bravo CO is going to start sell jigs, they are set up for F-height FSB, but I bet that with the corrent shim....


I shipped 50 of my FSB jigs to Bravo back in August. No idea when they will be listed on their website. I believe the jig would work fine on a A2 FSB with out a shim of any kind.

Here is a link to my tutorial using my jig:http://www.brdengineering.com/FSB_Installation_Jig.php

And a pic of the rig: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v224/comp1911/Guns/gas%20block%20jig/IMG_2689.jpg
Link Posted: 11/27/2009 5:12:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By comp1911:
Originally Posted By LonghunterCO:
I have heard that Bravo CO is going to start sell jigs, they are set up for F-height FSB, but I bet that with the corrent shim....


I shipped 50 of my FSB jigs to Bravo back in August. No idea when they will be listed on their website. I believe the jig would work fine on a A2 FSB with out a shim of any kind.

Here is a link to my tutorial using my jig:http://www.brdengineering.com/FSB_Installation_Jig.php

And a pic of the rig: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v224/comp1911/Guns/gas%20block%20jig/IMG_2689.jpg


Comp1911- I was the guy from M4carbine that emailed you about the jig. You recommended that I cantact Paul. I emailed him and have not heard back yet of these going for sale. I would really like one.
Link Posted: 11/27/2009 5:17:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By LonghunterCO:
Originally Posted By comp1911:
Originally Posted By LonghunterCO:
I have heard that Bravo CO is going to start sell jigs, they are set up for F-height FSB, but I bet that with the corrent shim....


I shipped 50 of my FSB jigs to Bravo back in August. No idea when they will be listed on their website. I believe the jig would work fine on a A2 FSB with out a shim of any kind.

Here is a link to my tutorial using my jig:http://www.brdengineering.com/FSB_Installation_Jig.php

And a pic of the rig: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v224/comp1911/Guns/gas%20block%20jig/IMG_2689.jpg


Comp1911- I was the guy from M4carbine that emailed you about the jig. You recommended that I cantact Paul. I emailed him and have not heard back yet of these going for sale. I would really like one.


I check the Bravo website every day too!
Link Posted: 11/27/2009 5:22:17 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/28/2009 1:41:19 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/28/2009 1:50:15 PM EDT
Outstanding!
Link Posted: 11/28/2009 1:51:49 PM EDT
Great tutoral.
Wish it had been available when I did my first FSB.
It might make me reconsider my "I'm never doing it again" decision.
Link Posted: 11/28/2009 2:48:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/28/2009 2:50:43 PM EDT by driant]
Great info,,,thanks!
Hope this question does'nt make blood shoot outa your eyeballs....but being a somewhat primitive person,,,,,what does a 1/2 degree to the right equate to on the FSB installation,,,something simple...like is it equal to the diameter of the sight post. or maybe 1/2 a sight post? Always trying to be simple. Thanks
Link Posted: 11/28/2009 3:27:27 PM EDT
I pinned a repro flash hider on a clone Enfield jungle carbine by slotting the barrel with a dremel and thin cut-off wheel. Could that approach be used in this situation as long as roll pins were used instead of taper pins ? KevinT
Link Posted: 11/28/2009 3:35:26 PM EDT
So how different would your steps have been if your FSB hadn't already been pre-drilled?
Link Posted: 11/28/2009 3:44:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By driant:
Great info,,,thanks!
Hope this question does'nt make blood shoot outa your eyeballs....but being a somewhat primitive person,,,,,what does a 1/2 degree to the right equate to on the FSB installation,,,something simple...like is it equal to the diameter of the sight post. or maybe 1/2 a sight post? Always trying to be simple. Thanks


I'd like to see a pic showing this as well, or a description. Great tutorial Mike!

Link Posted: 11/28/2009 4:00:27 PM EDT
Wow..Excellent tips. Thanks !
Link Posted: 11/28/2009 4:08:53 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/28/2009 4:12:26 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/28/2009 6:01:24 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/28/2009 7:31:51 PM EDT
Very nice, Mike.

I, like you, hate sights that need to be adjusted far to one side or the other. Installing an FSB is a perfect way to see how patient you can be. Every second of the way I told myself "I know this damn thing is gonna end up canted".

I was fortunate, and if we take our time, they will tend to turn out as nice as yours did...so long as you've shot it and verified it wasn't canted.

Kudos on tackling a previously-drilled FSB install. They're the most difficult installs, next to a pre-drilled FSB being adapted to a barrel that has also been previously drilled. That's a combo I will leave to the professionals.
Link Posted: 11/29/2009 4:04:08 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/29/2009 8:50:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/30/2009 2:19:51 PM EDT by postino]
Looks good!!!
Link Posted: 11/29/2009 2:02:08 PM EDT
Ain't nothing about it hillbilly if you used a bridgeport mill. I built a jog just for that purpose several years ago, but it doesn't get used much. Your method is great for a one off!
Link Posted: 11/29/2009 2:50:14 PM EDT
Nice tutorial. My method is a lot more rudimentary and involves having the whole thing upside and clamped down for the drilling. If you've got the tools to do it right, go for it!
Link Posted: 11/29/2009 4:30:29 PM EDT
We need to see Comp1911's jig go up for sale...just say'n
Link Posted: 11/29/2009 5:31:14 PM EDT
I'm considering one of those jigs. Any idea on price? (IM is fine if anyone knows)
Link Posted: 11/29/2009 6:06:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By postino:
Looks good!!!

I would have to add that there are many right ways to mount the FSB. I've done it several ways, and this pic illustrates how I do it presently. It'll be up to the customer as to how right it is...

http://www.wzrd.com/~rbrennan/tuts/leveling.jpg

There's a lot going on here...Colt upper w/machinist's level, locating off the machined lower plane, mounted barrel w/line level (on a section of barrel that is not tapered), and FSB level attached to a tap threaded into the sight hole. Since the sight is the important part of the FSB, I locate off that.

I've verified that all these levels are...er...level, by placing them on a flat surface, leveling it, then flipping the levels 180º and checking to see if they were level in that direction also...

I clamp the FSB with either wood shims or aluminum plates...Depends on how much I care about the surface finish...

Other than this setup (which is in one of those Harbor Freight 3 in 1 machines), I do it as Mike describes...Although I use a #31 drill (.120") and I do my reaming with a tap holder loosely held in my chuck and ream the hole by hand while reamer + tap holder are still in the chuck...



This level method will not work on real GI barrels as they are tapered between the chamber and handguard cap.

Link Posted: 11/29/2009 6:33:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RLR350:
I'm considering one of those jigs. Any idea on price? (IM is fine if anyone knows)


Best bet is an e-mail to Paul @ bravo. I don't know what the final retail price will be.

Link Posted: 11/30/2009 2:37:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By scottryan:
Originally Posted By postino:
Looks good!!!

I would have to add that there are many right ways to mount the FSB. I've done it several ways, and this pic illustrates how I do it presently....


This level method will not work on real GI barrels as they are tapered between the chamber and handguard cap.



Quite correct. I also level off the barrel in front of the FSB. Or off a mandrel in the bore. Many ways to do it.
Link Posted: 11/30/2009 6:02:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By comp1911:
Originally Posted By RLR350:
I'm considering one of those jigs. Any idea on price? (IM is fine if anyone knows)


Best bet is an e-mail to Paul @ bravo. I don't know what the final retail price will be.



I have done that. No responce in going on three weeks.
Link Posted: 11/30/2009 8:24:08 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/30/2009 9:07:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By LonghunterCO:
Originally Posted By comp1911:
Originally Posted By RLR350:
I'm considering one of those jigs. Any idea on price? (IM is fine if anyone knows)


Best bet is an e-mail to Paul @ bravo. I don't know what the final retail price will be.



I have done that. No responce in going on three weeks.


That seems pretty odd for Paul.

Link Posted: 12/6/2009 8:22:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/6/2009 8:23:09 AM EDT by 44Echo10]
BTT. Please tack this.
Link Posted: 12/6/2009 9:40:18 AM EDT
Excellent post!
Link Posted: 12/9/2009 1:02:29 PM EDT
If you cut your drill bit down to about half, or roughly not much longer than the barrel is wide don't you think that would result in a straighter drill through the barrel for the pins?
Link Posted: 12/20/2009 6:03:44 AM EDT
BTT
Link Posted: 12/29/2009 1:14:25 PM EDT
Nice tutorial...thanks!

I tapped the FSB and aligned it using my calibrated eyeball and a flat surface in the kitchen. I used a set screw to hold the FSB in place while zeroing the rifle at 25m (thus confirming it was properly aligned). My 1/8" end mill broke off in the first hole so I had to use the #31 bit and drilled through the left side to get the tip of the end mill out. The second hole was drilled without an end mill and the #31 bit worked fine without flattening the hole.

I am very happy with the finished product but slightly over-reamed on one of the holes.
Link Posted: 12/29/2009 1:59:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/29/2009 3:17:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mike_nds:
Originally Posted By CavalryJim:
Nice tutorial...thanks!

I tapped the FSB and aligned it using my calibrated eyeball and a flat surface in the kitchen. I used a set screw to hold the FSB in place while zeroing the rifle at 25m (thus confirming it was properly aligned). My 1/8" end mill broke off in the first hole so I had to use the #31 bit and drilled through the left side to get the tip of the end mill out. The second hole was drilled without an end mill and the #31 bit worked fine without flattening the hole.

I am very happy with the finished product but slightly over-reamed on one of the holes.


You may be able to get a 0/0 tapered pin to work in that hole. It's the next size up.


Just like Mike said.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=824299
They're out of stock right now.

My local Ace Hardware has them too.



Link Posted: 1/1/2010 9:21:23 AM EDT
Bump for Halschick
Link Posted: 1/17/2010 4:29:57 PM EDT
Bravo Company has the FSB fixture listed on their website now.
Link Posted: 1/17/2010 5:27:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 44Echo10:
Bravo Company has the FSB fixture listed on their website now.


I think they need a few more disclaimers ..... LOL



This product should only be used by a qualified machinist experienced in working with the AR15 platform.

The use of this product does NOT guarantee a properly indexed front sight base. Machinist should independently confirm proper sight alignment before drilling the front sight base and barrel.

This product should only be used by a qualified machinist experienced in working with the AR15 platform.

Do NOT use this product unless you are a qualified machinist, and have machining experience with the AR15.
Link Posted: 1/18/2010 3:52:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By GreenLantern:
Originally Posted By 44Echo10:
Bravo Company has the FSB fixture listed on their website now.


I think they need a few more disclaimers ..... LOL



This product should only be used by a qualified machinist experienced in working with the AR15 platform.

The use of this product does NOT guarantee a properly indexed front sight base. Machinist should independently confirm proper sight alignment before drilling the front sight base and barrel.

This product should only be used by a qualified machinist experienced in working with the AR15 platform.

Do NOT use this product unless you are a qualified machinist, and have machining experience with the AR15.





Link Posted: 2/8/2010 3:13:42 AM EDT
New guy, pardon any ignorance displayed. Was thinking about this. Could one use one of the bore sighter lasers with the barrel set up on the upper and align the FSB with the laser at say 50 yds?
Link Posted: 2/8/2010 5:48:35 PM EDT
Looks like a good aproach to do without special jigs. I made a set of jigs for this application many moons ago. I would add two things that I have experienced: 1) When reaming the pin holes if you don't have a stop for your quill, stop short and hand ream them to get a good fit. 2) make sure you have the front handgaurd cap in place when your drilling otherwise your locations will be off. Learned that the hard way.
Link Posted: 2/22/2010 11:18:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mike_nds:
In my experience, I have found that I get the proper zero with the FSB canted slightly (1/2 degree maybe?) to the right. If I have it top-dead-center, it will shoot to the right, and I'll have to crank my rear sight to the left to compensate. All my GI barrels seem to have this cant built in. YMMV


I wish I would have followed this advice. I was too chicken to guesstimate it, so I went for top-dead-center. I just sighted in my kit that I built up and the rear sight had to be cranked about 2/3 to 3/4 of the way to the left. I don't really notice it when I have my nose up to the charging handle, though.

It is nice to have a rifle just like the ones I had in the arms room back in the mid-80s.
Link Posted: 2/22/2010 11:50:19 AM EDT
Years ago I did a super terrific redneck bubba hillbilly job of a FSB install.

I simply drilled the holes out and rammed some roll pins in there. It was rock solid dude.


Now I know better.
Link Posted: 2/22/2010 12:10:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 44Echo10:
Bravo Company has the FSB fixture listed on their website now.



Nice looking jig.
I had to read the instructions before I understood how it works.
Sure would make pinning FSBes a lot easier.
Hmm...maybe I should pick one up and offer pinning services.
Lots of people are going to need pinned FSBes with all the M16A1 kits on the market.
The real problem would be finding time to do it.
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