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Posted: 9/28/2009 10:27:05 AM EDT
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I am doing a build for my father who was in Vietnam from '68 to '72. his first time was as an FAC attatched to some infantry. and then went Army after his AF enlistment (draft) was over.
He doesn't talk a whole lot about it, but he did say how much he liked his M-16 after they worked out the bugs and I have the 1911 done and I am trying to figure out the correct pattern for the rifle (minus the fun switch unfortunately) to look like. It will probably get shot a coupla times a year and is going into a presentation case with his awards, uniform and journal that he kept while over there. Would like to have it ready to go for his Birthday (Nov 11) but Christmas would be ok too. Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks. |
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Look here.
http://www.retroblackrifle.com/ Also check out Ekie's variation guide above,,both have great info |
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There is also a chance he would have had an XM16E1. Like this, but with a 3 prong FH: 
Marked sort of like this: 
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Quoted:
I am doing a build for my father who was in Vietnam from '68 to '72. his first time was as an FAC attatched to some infantry. and then went Army after his AF enlistment (draft) was over. First, Thanks to your father for his service and kudos to you for giving him the recognition he's due. Funny how good fathers tend to produce good sons! Just an idea, but you might ask whether his M16 had a forward assist. Also, whether the flash hider was 3-prong or birdcage. Those might narrow things down a bit. Unfortunately, most guys won't remember what was stamped on their barrel, or even if their barrel was chrome-lined...but the muzzle device and forward assist are pretty memorable. The problem is it's hard to tell whether he'd have gotten the latest gear back then. His rifle could have been a few years old by the time he got it so that time span will only serve as a general guideline. Stop back with any questions during the build. For a project like this, you won't find better resources than some of the guys on this board. |
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I really appreciate all of the help.
He has pics with the 3 prong FH and the bird cage style M16's with and with out the forward assist. He also has some with a very short carbine (he really doesn't like to talk about) that he carried while he was in places he never was doing things that never happened. Near as I have been able to ascertain he spent his time over there calling in air strikes (both as Airforce and Army). I ran into a guy that served with my father and he had nothing but praise for my Dad and told me if I ever needed anything to just ask, he talked of my Dad in respectful and quiet tones. The short carbine is from that time period @ '70-'72. |
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The M16A1 rifle with Forward assist and full fence lower would have been the standard issue rifle from 68-72. (Pic in my post above)
Others would or could of been used as leftovers from the A1 transition. The shorty carbines would have been used by Special Op types like Rangers, LRRP's, SEALS, Helo Aircrews, etc. ETA: If he was a FAC (Forward Air Control) There's a good chance he did carry a carbine. |
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Quoted:
I really appreciate all of the help. He has pics with the 3 prong FH and the bird cage style M16's with and with out the forward assist. He also has some with a very short carbine (he really doesn't like to talk about) that he carried while he was in places he never was doing things that never happened. Near as I have been able to ascertain he spent his time over there calling in air strikes (both as Airforce and Army). I ran into a guy that served with my father and he had nothing but praise for my Dad and told me if I ever needed anything to just ask, he talked of my Dad in respectful and quiet tones. The short carbine is from that time period @ '70-'72. pics? |
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Quoted:
The M16A1 rifle with Forward assist and full fence lower would have been the standard issue rifle from 68-72. (Pic in my post above) Others would or could of been used as leftovers from the A1 transition. The shorty carbines would have been used by Special Op types like Rangers, LRRP's, SEALS, Helo Aircrews, etc. ETA: If he was a FAC (Forward Air Control) There's a good chance he did carry a carbine. 604s were the most common in the AF during the time he was an FAC - even as early FAC it was likely that's what he carried, but later during his Army service he would have likely had an A1. It'd be best to ask him as Ol'Gunner suggested, or better yet, ask to see those photos you mentioned. +1 on wanting to see some pics! ETA: I am not awake yet and apparently didn't read the entire thread - Duh!  Did the XM177 he carried have a forward assist? If I was you, that is the one I'd build him.
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Quoted:
I really appreciate all of the help. He has pics with the 3 prong FH and the bird cage style M16's with and with out the forward assist. He also has some with a very short carbine (he really doesn't like to talk about) that he carried while he was in places he never was doing things that never happened. Near as I have been able to ascertain he spent his time over there calling in air strikes (both as Airforce and Army). I ran into a guy that served with my father and he had nothing but praise for my Dad and told me if I ever needed anything to just ask, he talked of my Dad in respectful and quiet tones. The short carbine is from that time period @ '70-'72. If it is OK with your dad, would you be kind enough to post a picture of the carbine? You could crop the picture or blur out any people in it, but for resreach and historical purposes on the Retro Forum pictures like that are invaluable! 
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| It was mentioned previously, but I want to bring it up again. The FACs have Air Force equipment - so if that is the goal, the weapon would be different from the Army version. When we went from M16A1 to M16A2, the FAC team attached to us did not get M16A2s because they are part of an Air Force unit, although attached to an Army unit. |
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Quoted:
It was mentioned previously, but I want to bring it up again. The FACs have Air Force equipment - so if that is the goal, the weapon would be different from the Army version. When we went from M16A1 to M16A2, the FAC team attached to us did not get M16A2s because they are part of an Air Force unit, although attached to an Army unit. This can be true but as noted with all AF dealings, ANYTHING can happen. IF!! he was issued by the AF he may have had a 604, but many times AF attached to an Army unit may be issued a weapon from that Army unit. Still happens today. It may be the difference if he was a GFAC (Ground FAC) or a FACA (FAC Air) in a spotter plain. If he was a FACA he would probably have AF issue (maybe). GFAC could have either one Army or AF issue. But in Vietnam it seems you could get what you wanted as an Officer. Was he an O or an E? |
| I am heading out into the field today fir @ 7 days, I will try to get pics from my Dad so I can post them up. IIRC he was the guy in the mud with the map, radio and bioseefars calling in the Air and some Artie. I also vaguely remember him talking to my grandfather about how they were in the field for 2-4 weeks at a time before getting back to the fire base (if that helps at all). He was also enlisted and got field promoted to an NCO. He just retired in 2006 with @ 38 'ish years as a Lt.Col. |
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Ok Just had a long talk with Dad. Both of his rifles were A1's mfg by Colt. He was attached to 366th CMBT Security Police @ Da Nang and several other places... and he was trained as a FAC. Was attached to Army, USMC and Navy (patrol boats on the rivers) and was in country from Mar 69 to Sep 70. He was at Wei just before it got wiped out. He also carried a .38spcl and a battlefield pick up 1911 a1 from a deceased NVA officer. Had some really interesting stories. He said that the reason he would finally talk to me about it is because I had finally given up trying to re-enlist...
I'll post pics as soon as I get them. Thanks again for all of the help guys. ETA what make/model would his revolver have been? |
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4s, perhaps a "Combat Masterpiece"? I don't know if USAF ground personnel were issued that particular make/model, but I DO know that USAF pilots in the 60's-70's era were issued the .38special Combat Masterpiece as their official sidearm.
Retired F-4 Phantom pilot Gen. Jerry W. Cook mentions them a few times in his book "Once a Fighter Pilot" during the Vietnam chapters. |
| Up until the late to mid 80's the USAF sidearm was the Smith and Wesson Model 15 or M-15. It was similar to the Model 10, but had an adjustable rear sight. The Combat Masterpiece may have been a DoD version of the Model 15, however I never heard them called that. I carried very used Model 15's from 82-86 overseas and stateside. During a brief return to the USAF in 1992 they had been replaced with the Beretta. Of course it was the USAF, so anything goes. This is only what I saw. |
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