AR Sponsor
Posted: 6/2/2009 4:39:07 PM EDT
|
Say if one had a hammer or trigger or bolt, etc. for a M16. Does the mere possession of individual m16 components constitute a violation of the NFA laws? Since it is the lower receiver which has the serial number and not the internal components, could these individual components be sold legally?
And would they demand a higher price than their AR15 counterparts? Thanks, Mike |
|
No legal foul. The list of "banned" parts floating around is not a publication by the ATF. ATF does provide a list of parts recommended not be used because these parts can cause an AR15 to fire more than once through bolt bounce and if it does it constitutes a violation. In talking with a friend who works at ATF's Tech Branch he said the main part to avoid installing is the selector, this is because with a M16 selector installed the rifle is more apt to allow bolt bounce if the parts are worn.
As a side note, the two retro M16 clones I have built both have M16 internals with the exception of the selector. Still if you are in doubt call Tech Branch, they will be more than happy to answer your question. Original M16 internal parts will normally command a slightly higher price than civilian components. |
|
The reason I ask is that I know of a dealer offering to sell a retrofit AR15 built with a Sendra XM15E2 lower. He says it's 'legal'. I remember that there was a lot of controversy surrounding this particular lower receiver with court cases involving the BATF and Sendra. In some instances this receiver was classified as a machine gun and in some cases not.
I took a close look at the gun. It does not have a drilled hole to mount an auto sear and it has a weld stop to keep the selector from going to the auto position. But it does have a M16 hammer, disconnector, selector, trigger and bolt. As I understand the NFA laws, if the weapon is built with machine gun parts it is classified as a machine gun especially if it can easily be converted to shoot automatically. And with the availability of 'drop-in' auto sears this can easily be accomplished. So how does he say that this weapon is legal? I'm thinking that one could grind down the hook on the hammer and tail on the disconnector. Then no matter what, the weapon could not be fired automatically but would that make this rifle legal? Thanks, Mike |
|
Quoted:
I'm thinking that one could grind down the hook on the hammer and tail on the disconnector. Then no matter what, the weapon could not be fired automatically but would that make this rifle legal? Thanks, Mike Absolutely. Every AR I own is fitted w/milsurp "trimmed" Colt M16 hammers and disconnectors; and two of them have M16 selectors w/the the center surface, that depresses the disconnector in auto fire, milled off. I've also dropped a weld bead at the back of a couple of M16 triggers, to make them legal for semi only. Once you take off the piece that makes it an M16 parf, It isn't an M16 part any more. Heck, even the makers do it. I've got DPMS and Rock River disconnectors, both of which show that they started life as M16 pieces w/the tails obviously ground off. 
|
|
Let me just say that legal or not, I plan on changing the modified m16 selector in my XM16E1 before it goes anywhere on the road with me (like back east.) Why? It looks too much like a real M16, and having the selector able to go into the third position, even though it won't fire FA, may be enough to cause me trouble, traveling from out of state especially, with the local county mounties. This is something I really do not need. People have posted many times that most cops don't know the difference between a flash hider and a muzzle brake for example, or understand 922r...so why would I think the average cop would understand a modified selector - 'why would you want it to go into that position anyway Sir if it isn't FA? I'm sorry, but I have to confiscate the weapon until a determination of legality can be made.'
See what I'm saying? Here in AZ, locally, I'm not too worried about it, but traveling out of state with several weapons and ammunition in my truck in case zombies attack? So, legal or not, the modified selector is getting changed. |
|
My M16 modified semi-only selectors stay on my property.
I have a bunch of spare black and gray AR15 selectors that I put in before going to a public range. I don't want to have to explain to anyone why my selector "goes all the way over there." It is just too much potential hassle! I have taken my semi HK51 SBR with an SEF lower to the public range, but "F" (Feuerstoß) doesn't mean anything to most people. |
|
Well, just to get folks excited both of the NoDak lowers I used to build the clones with were sent off for engraving to Orion. Both have the US property M16A1 markings along with the AUTO marking in the third position. Neither selector can be moved to the third position.
Being a C3 dealer I take speical pains to make sure all of my firearms are in a legal configuration. If I am ever stopped by LE and questioned about it I hope they know the law as well as I do otherwise I may make enough out of the lawsuit to buy a few more. |
|
I use the M16 parts as is. As long as the firearm is not capable of being select fire the parts are legal. What gets people in trouble is using such parts that are worn out and allow the firearm to fire fully automatic and do not do any thing to repair the firearm. The lists shown of "illegal" parts on a number of websites is not what ATF goes by.
Still if you want to be 100% sure of what you are doing, contact NFA Tech Branch, they are the ones with the official final say. That is who I turn to whenever I have a question of legality. |
|
Quoted:
I use the M16 parts as is. As long as the firearm is not capable of being select fire the parts are legal. What gets people in trouble is using such parts that are worn out and allow the firearm to fire fully automatic and do not do any thing to repair the firearm. The lists shown of "illegal" parts on a number of websites is not what ATF goes by. Still if you want to be 100% sure of what you are doing, contact NFA Tech Branch, they are the ones with the official final say. That is who I turn to whenever I have a question of legality. Do you have a letter that sows that the M16 parts (minus the selector) is legal without an auto sear. Seems they will say it is "readily convertible." |
|
In my few dealing with BATFE (as LE) I've never gotten a 100% answer from them.
They always are a little vague about what parts are legal and which aren't except if it can be made to fire more than one round by pulling a trigger once it is illegal. They have been known to use light strike pistol primers in rifle cartridges to aide in slam fire. They have been known to weld pieces together to make a firearm illegal. Then they prosecute. I don't trust them. Neither do many pro 2nd LE that I know |
No letter necessary. It does not become "readily convertible" until you drill that extra hole in the lower receiver, then they have you on readily convertible and intent, with intent being the biggie. If you use the term readily convertible some internet experts will say owning an AR15 in the first place is readily convertible, you just haven't bought the parts yet. 
I have been dealing with ATF for over 25 years and never have had a problem with them. Those that I know who have had other issues that brought ATF's attention to themselves. As a side note, the two guys I go to Knob Creek with are both ATF agents, one is from NFA Branch and the other from Tech Branch which accounts for my direct access to having my questions answered. In the end, whatever parts you choose you are most comfortable with is the way for you to go. I just hate to see people go to extra expenses that are not necessary. |
AR Sponsor