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Posted: 2/28/2009 5:45:45 PM EDT
Well I promised to take some pics on my version of the 607 Bolt On Stock. I got one of my65pan's stocks a couple of weeks back. It is a nicely done unit. I really didn't want to mod my Colt lower, but I also thought the other version was a bit high priced (my opinion only, I am not casting dispersions on his product). Besides, I like to do a bit of my own value added to a project. It is kind of why I do them. So I am doing my couple of weeks at the aircraft overhaul facility in Georgia, where we have a ton of metal massaging machines. So the starting point was to make a few plugs for the lower that are threaded down the center. This allowed me to refresh my lathe work on nice soft and cheap aluminium:
This forms a plug to run a 10/32 screw, which we will onvert to a stud through. 
Next you need to mod a Carbine end plate by removing the indexing protrusion on the inside of the ring by filing it off. It also will need a hole drilled in the center of the raised pug area, just a bit larger than the 8/32 stud (screw). 
You then need to see where to cut off the extension shaft. Put the parts together with the stock off to the side. I ran a blade around the shaft even with the end of the plate to score a mark around the shaft. I then chucked the shaft mechanism in the lathe and cut it off at the mark, then center drilled it like the piece of aluminum. It was then tapped with 8/32 thread about 1/2" deep. 
Once this is done, you can trial fit it together with the buffer tube. Screw the plug up the long screw, then screw the screw into the end shaft through the plate. Then work the plug own flush and tighten it with a wrench. Now that it is tight, use a Dremel with a cut off wheel to trim the screw off flush with the plug. 
Now that this is done, the next item is to make the buffer tube hold the buffer retaining pin. If you screw the Entry Length Buffer Tube down over the carbine plate, it comes up a bit short to hold the pin. So some sort of clever fix is in order: 
My ever helpful employee who found my that excellent carbine the other day also found me a buggered up carbine buffer tube to sacrifice for the cause. The solution is to make a small ring from the threaded portion to make up for the buffer tube's shortfall: 
This turned out to be tricky, as the metal is soft and will fold over the threads if the cutter is not ultra sharp and you do it very slowly. Also the castle nut, normally used to secure the tube to the lower, is run up the tube frequently between cuttings to chase the threads. The typical tube will produce 3-4 rings. 
Use the castle nut to hold the rings, protruding slightly, to smooth the ends off on a belt sander and do the final length adjustment. Cut a couple of slot in the end so you can turn it with a screwdriver. 
You need to sand the final portion off the buffer tube itself. IT has a lip to retain the pin, so it can be sacrificed to do the final fit. 
The final thing I need to do is get a small set screw to run down through the plate to the shaft to keep it from trying to rotate the assembly when you actuate the lock mechanism. I am either going to use a roll pin, or a small hex plug screw. It is tomorrow's project along with re-profiling the flash hider to more closely match the original moderator. That and if that twit I bought the 11.5" barrel from a couple of weeks back actually sends it so I can screw it on something. Then someday, I may get a 16" actual carbine barre to cut to 12.6" to put 45 bravo's moderator on I have. 
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I thought I'd add my $.02 here... 
My 607 stocks have a threaded lower rod [1/2" x 28tpi - same as FH], which bottoms out into a modified and also threaded carbine buffer plate. The c-to-c distance is 1"; same as always. This allows the lower rod to be held to the receiver by the buffer tube, without any additional tweaks, pins, or plugs. 
The buffer tube flange is cut back to ~.080" thick, to allow the buffer retainer to function as normal. It's my understanding that the My65pan buttstocks are supplied with lower rods longer than required, so that makes this alternative method quite feasible. 
Just throwing out alternatives...As Patrick McGoohan would say..."Six of one..." 
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| I was going to thread my lower rod originally. The main reason I didn't is to give it some float to fit and some place to correct if I messed up. The cut off screw is easy to replace. I could possibly get around pinning by using thread locker, but I don't like loctite, we really don't use it much in aviation, we like to pin or wire stuff. I also considered cutting down the buffer tube lock ring. It just would end up kind of thin. Since Chris rocked up with the other buffer, I thought I would give the ring a go. Makes disassembly a breeze. There are soo many ways to do this, all correct. Good news is, I may have found my 16" barrel last night. |
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I thought I'd add my $.02 here...
My 607 stocks have a threaded lower rod [1/2" x 28tpi - same as FH], which bottoms out into a modified and also threaded carbine buffer plate. The c-to-c distance is 1"; same as always. This allows the lower rod to be held to the receiver by the buffer tube, without any additional tweaks, pins, or plugs. <a href="http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b390/FrogBait4/XM-607/607stock.jpg" target="_blank">http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b390/FrogBait4/XM-607/th_607stock.jpg</a> The buffer tube flange is cut back to ~.080" thick, to allow the buffer retainer to function as normal. It's my understanding that the My65pan buttstocks are supplied with lower rods longer than required, so that makes this alternative method quite feasible.
Just throwing out alternatives...As Patrick McGoohan would say..."Six of one..."
Is this one of your non-collapsible stocks? If it does collapse, and you're moving the buffer tube flange, do you have to modify the front face of the stock an equal amount to avoid having a gap when collapsed? In other words, does the bottom of the front face of the stock hit the carbine buffer plate before the stock is fully closed? |
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Well, I didn't get to pinning the rod today, it is SNOWING in Georgia! Besides, I think I will do a small hex set screw instead. I have to go to the hardware store, after the snow melts tomorrow and get some small long ones. We have nothing like that in our massive stock of screws at the facility. It seems that everybody that got their hands on this today now wants one. They think the 607 stock is soo trick. I personally like the way it feels for shooting, your cheek weld is more natural, like the normal stock. Folks seemed to like the shorty pistol grip as well.
This method I used could also be adapted and done by folks with just a Dremel a drill press and a belt sander. The plug is not truly necessary, I think it makes the stock feel more secure by having more material there. The ring could be hacked off a buffer tube with a cut-off wheel and then final shaped on a belt sander. The only tricky part is drilling the center of the rod for threading, but a patient person with a drill press could achieve it with treasonable success. |
| This should be added on to the tacked 607 stock thread IMO. Great job! Interesting how different people come up with solutions to the same problem. I am considering this rather than drilling an A2 lower right now although I prefer the look of the original method since it's so close to the real thing. |
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Quoted:
I thought I'd add my $.02 here...
My 607 stocks have a threaded lower rod [1/2" x 28tpi - same as FH], which bottoms out into a modified and also threaded carbine buffer plate. The c-to-c distance is 1"; same as always. This allows the lower rod to be held to the receiver by the buffer tube, without any additional tweaks, pins, or plugs. <a href="http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b390/FrogBait4/XM-607/607stock.jpg" target="_blank">http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b390/FrogBait4/XM-607/th_607stock.jpg</a> The buffer tube flange is cut back to ~.080" thick, to allow the buffer retainer to function as normal. It's my understanding that the My65pan buttstocks are supplied with lower rods longer than required, so that makes this alternative method quite feasible.
Just throwing out alternatives...As Patrick McGoohan would say..."Six of one..."
Postino, What keeps the lower rod from turning when you work the lever? Did you stake the threads? |
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What keeps the lower rod from turning when you work the lever? Did you stake the threads? The rod is "bottomed out" in the carbine buffer plate...the thread is cut so that it is only ~.375" long....~200" is the hole in the receiver; the rest is the carbine plate...It's tightened right into the plate...
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What keeps the lower rod from turning when you work the lever? Did you stake the threads? The rod is "bottomed out" in the carbine buffer plate...the thread is cut so that it is only ~.375" long....~200" is the hole in the receiver; the rest is the carbine plate...It's tightened right into the plate... I see, then you index the lever accordingly. That would be hard to do with one of mine because the lever is already pinned to the locking rod assembly. Indexing the lever is done when the receiver and lower rod are cross drilled/pinned. It would work otherwise though because when you throw the lever from locked to open is when you're working against the detent and fortunately driving the threaded rod tighter against the plate. Returning the lever to the locked position just snaps it back into the detent and would be unlikely to unscrew the rod. Hmmm................ |
Well had a bit o time tonight and tried a different approach on the end bushing. I had thought it was a bit too shallow for a countersunk screw, but I was wrong. I used a 100° countersunk 10/32 screw in the bushing, which I put a bit of bevel on to sort of match the conical end of the hole in the lower receiver. This gave me enough meat, just enough, to countersink and thread a bit of the bushing. This allows you to torque the screw down quite tightly, perhaps enough that thread locker may work to secure it after all. So pinning may be unnecessary.
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| Damn I wish I had patented this bolt on idea when I had the chance. My attourney advised me that if I wasn't going to make over $100k on the idea it wasn't worh the time. In any case...... I still thing TSI's stocks are tops in quality and authenticity even though I am biased. |
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I still thing TSI's stocks are tops in quality and authenticity even though I am biased. I am proud to tell anyone who comments on it that my WA-Tom/TSI XM607 stock is original and THE BEST!!!
Original TSI Instruction Sheet |
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Thanks for the compliment on the stock. Like I said I am biased, but I really did strive to make the TSI stock as much like the real thing as possible without requiring any modifications to the lower. In any case, let the market decide who's is best! The market will not decide who's is best, it will decide who's is the best value. I try to make my stocks as close to the real thing as possible also, within the limitations of the equipment at my disposal, and my skills. There are no CNC or cast parts on my stocks. All of the components are made by me on old fashioned manual equipment. Each stock is a hand made, one off, custom peice. I buy my materials from the local salvage yard and do all of the work myself. No partners, no casting house, no attorneys, no accountants, etc. No overhead=competetive pricing.
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I for one can attest that my65pan's work is top shelf. He's also a very generous person, and very helpful. I am sure that WA-Tom's work is very nice also, and I would buy either one. FWIW I have a set of TSI 607 HGs for my build, which I paid $100 for, rather than use the simpler, cheaper HGS being currently produced, because I like the original look better. That's why I like my65pan's pinned version - it's just that much more authentic. I do appreciate that Tom took a lot of extra time to design a 'better mousetrap'. It was just a few years ago that a 607 stock was a near impossibility.
Ironically, I may end up putting mine on an A2 lower because of financial constraints.  Trying to decide whether to at least grind down the lower mag fence or not. It means refinishing the lower, but both the upper and lower should really be grey, and WTH, I can probably still afford a can of paint...
Not to get OT, but can someone point me to the measurements / pics for cutting down a pistol grip for an early 607 look? I am using a slabside upper, so figure I'll go that route. |
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The silly way I made my itty bitty pistol grip is simple. I took a pic of the 607 on retro black rifle with both the full size grip and the cut down grip. Sized both pics in photoshop to be the same scale, and then overlaid the mini grip to the normal. I made the mini grip to be 50% transparent. The scaled the grip portion to be life sized. Printed this out at 1:1 and lad a grip over this now template. I taped the cut, which is not straight, cut on a bandsaw. Then used a belt sander to finish the end and edges. You need to hand sand it with we and dry to make it nice and smooth. Paint to match.
Since neither version of the stock is original, the who is better argument is semi-moot. This is a reproduction to look close to original, so Hollywood and budget rules apply. If anybody had the original parts and assembled from that, this argument would make sense. Some folks do not have any skill with metal, so a pre made version would be the one for them. My time is worth money and so is TSI's. I felt I could do my own version and use the saving to buy other parts. Besides, I like torturing metal. However, some folks can't drill a hole in wood and wold never want to touch a mod of any kind. I too bought TSI handguards, as they look the best. |
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Since neither version of the stock is original, the who is better argument is semi-moot. This is a reproduction to look close to original, so Hollywood and budget rules apply. This. And I apologize for the hijack. So, what method did you settle on for attaching the lower rod to the endplate? |
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My last little mod seems to hold quite tightly. I am going to wait until I get home next week to do a final assembly and try some red threadlocker. I have to wait until I give the buffer tube a once over with MolyResin. The black tube was not the look I wanted, so I beadblasted the first part of it that shows to do a coating on.
My partner's dad died Thursday, so I had to extend my trip to cover for him. On a better note, I did find a 16" barrel and turned it down for the moderator this evening. Going to fly over to Anniston tomorrow and visit with 45bravo and get a moderator. I've got to put some time on one of the aircraft that just came out of rework. Need to see if any gremlins nested in it. It has to ferry over the Atlantic in a week or so. So rather than get a really, really, really expensive hamburger, I thought I could do something useful with the flight time. Jet fuel is expensive. |
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