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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - SHTF Retro choice (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 2/4/2009 3:32:37 PM EDT
| So, with losing my job, it's occurred to me that if things continue to get worse, I'll have to 'thin the herd' as it were, and sell some guns. That got me thinking - if you could keep just ONE of your retro ARs, when things got really bad, which one would it be? My camera is down, but it would likely be the fixed stock 723 clone I'm building at this point. I love the XM16E1, but it would have to go to pay for food, whatever. I have a line on some work, so lets hope things don't ever get that bad, but I'd like to hear, see, what setup you would keep, how you would modify it (if you would) or if you'd forgo the retro entirely for an M4 or something. |
After trying several varieties of AR, I recently built my ideal AR-15. Earlier I'd built a retro, a 604 clone, and discovered that my small hands prefer the triangular handguards, and I also like the A1 stock length. So I built what will be my go to gun, essentially a Colt 6520 in retro drag:
It's new NDS upper and lower receivers with a 6520 barrel and BCG, and a Geissele SSA trigger. As it's not a true retro, I went ahead and put tritium sights on it. Should it come to paring down to one, this is the one I'll keep, adding an Aimpoint Micro to the carry handle. And good luck, Morg, I hope things go well. |
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I was mostly curious to see if people would pick a rifle or carbine, and what model. I will know next week about a possible job, so hopefully I can get back to work soon. It's one good thing about being an electrician, you can usually find something. Things have just gotten so bad out there...
So, my plan was to build the 723 with an M4 barrel, so it could take any ammo, rather than the rest of my builds which are all 1:12 twist, but now it will be going together with a ltwt barrel, since I have it.  I think the idea of a .22 conversion kit is a good one for TEOTWAWKI, but I do have a .22 for hunting small game, so it's not a huge priority.
I was just wondering which model your 'favorite' is, and why you would pick it in an emergency. I think retro AR's are particularly well-suited for SHTF, thus the KISS carbine pic thread over in Discussions, but I wanted to get the retro read on it. One thing I prefer, for example, is an A1 fixed stock on carbines. I'm putting a trapdoor on the 723, so it has the capacity to store things like spare parts, tinder, and maybe some fish hooks, like a bigger version of the hollow handle survival knives that were the rage for awhile, LOL. I'd like to hear what you'd add - a light? a carry handle scope? Different sling? Or would you run it as is? FWIW, I think the basic A1 is pretty KISS as is. |
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As a follow-up;
I would go with the retro/kiss carbine because of the simplicity, compact size, and light weight. If I were to add anything it would be a trijicon compact scope and a flashlight. The fixed butt is more comfortable, and has the aforementioned storage capability. But If you need to break it down and hide it in your bag or pack either will do. The women in my life can handle the CAR-stocked carbine AR's fine, but the 20" rifles are too much for them mentally and physically. They like the "shorties". I also go with the 1/9 twist for most 16" barrels. |
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I think it all goes back to what SHTF means at the time.
A .556 isnlt going to do you a lot of good when a hurd of elephants tear through your neighborhood. Nor would it if vampires attack, and you don't have any silver bullets (or is that for werewolfs??!). Crap, I'm not prepared at all! |
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Quoted:
I think it all goes back to what SHTF means at the time. A .556 isnlt going to do you a lot of good when a hurd of elephants tear through your neighborhood. Nor would it vampires attack, and you don't have any silver bullets (or is that for werewolfs??!). Crap, I'm not prepared at all! Is that garlic round loaded to NATO or SAAMI specifications?! |
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A standard 20" A1 for me. 
http://www.megpro.com/ar/15/earlyarclone/a1clone/a14clone/a14rtfull.jpg +1 almost all ammo is 55grain anyway, nice forend, nice ergonomics, good sighting radius and accuracy |
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Quoted:
After trying several varieties of AR, I recently built my ideal AR-15. Earlier I'd built a retro, a 604 clone, and discovered that my small hands prefer the triangular handguards, and I also like the A1 stock length. So I built what will be my go to gun, essentially a Colt 6520 in retro drag: http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s95/MMcfpd/Basking_in_the_dawn_light.jpg It's new NDS upper and lower receivers with a 6520 barrel and BCG, and a Geissele SSA trigger. As it's not a true retro, I went ahead and put tritium sights on it. Should it come to paring down to one, this is the one I'll keep, adding an Aimpoint Micro to the carry handle. And good luck, Morg, I hope things go well. How do you like the NDS Upper and Lower combo? |
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Morg, I'm sorry to hear you got laid off. As you know, I haven't been working either, although I have a buffer in the small government subsidy I get each month. I hope you find something soon.
I think your 653 is a good choice. I would probably pick an XM177E2, although I don't have one right now. Of the ones I have, I'd pick my 633 replica for a retro, and my Noveske Diplomat for a non-retro: 
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VAAR - I really love that 633 clone you built. Things are down to the nitty-gritty here or I'd send my barrel off to 45Bravo for pinning. I have a job interview next week I'm hoping will give me at least 6 months work. As long as I have food in the cupboard and beer in the fridge, things could be worse. I really like that A2 barrelled 733 you have - mind posting another pic of it? Hope things get better for you too bud - hell, for ALL of us. But hey, now that our savior has been elected, what am I worried about? 
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I hope you get it. Here is the pic of the 733 replica. I unloaded the barrel, since that A2 barrel really started to bother me. I picked up one of those lightweight carbine barrels a guy was selling on the EE a few months ago, and I was going to have it cut down, but I'm out of SBR'd lowers, and I can't don't want to fork over the $200 for another one right now. Here is a pic of it with the SDI A2 barrel.
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I hope you get it. Here is the pic of the 733 replica. I unloaded the barrel, since that A2 barrel really started to bother me. I picked up one of those lightweight carbine barrels a guy was selling on the EE a few months ago, and I was going to have it cut down, but I'm out of SBR'd lowers, and I can't don't want to fork over the $200 for another one right now. Here is a pic of it with the SDI A2 barrel. http://media.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=2837 That's it! I don't understand about the upper however. It's my understanding that if you own ONE SBR'd lower, you are allowed to have as many uppers for it as you want, even if you own other non-SBR'd ARs. You just can't put a shorty lower on anything BUT the SBR lower. That ruling came about for the same reason that once you SBR a lower, you are not required to SBR all your other lowers - they reason that if you have an SBR lower, why would you risk jail when you just went to all that expense and trouble? |
| Well, you have to be able to create a legal configuration. In other words, if you have 10 lowers with 5 of them SBR'd, and you have 6 SBR uppers and 4 non-sbr uppers, you're not doing too good. So, if you're like me, and you have a few SBR's and a bunch of non-SBR'd uppers and lowers lying around, it's probably not a good idea to have a bunch of SBR uppers, better to have one for each lower. If you only had one or two, it would be easy to keep yourself covered. Does that make sense? |
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How do you like the NDS Upper and Lower combo? Quoted:
MMcfpd - I meant to compliment you on your carbine - it's very cool! I too would like to know what you think about the NDS upper/lower. I see a 604 NDS upper in my future someday... Thanks. Since it's really a new gun with retro influences, I really liked the idea of putting it together with new receivers. Everything fits, the sight went in just fine and it turned out as I had hoped. Here's a closer shot: 
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What do you do Morg and where are you? I have jobs in my agency at Tinker AFB. 101 I'm an electrician - I live in Arizona. Thanks for thinking of me - usually if I can work for someone one day I've got work. I'm hoping that's the case next week. (The office for this particular company was closed this week.) Great pics guys! Gave me something to drool over. Things will work out - they always do... |
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Until recently, I'd have said the XM177E2 clone on a class 3d SP1 lower. Now, I'd put the recently completed Israeli carbine clone upper assy on the SP1 lower, (front hole has been sleeved to ,25 inch) and feel ready for whatever came along. The barrel is 1 in 9 Bushie, so I'd be able to get decent accuracy w/the .22 convewrsion if I needed it.
But Lord, let's hope it never comes to that.
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The women in my life can handle the CAR-stocked carbine AR's fine, but the 20" rifles are too much for them mentally and physically. They like the "shorties". I too am the patriarch of a group of small statured women and boys. I would have to agree and go with the carbine if only one was allowed. If two or more a 20" for myself and carbines all around for the others. |
| My present go-to gun isn't really retro much. Although it does have an eagle arms armalite lower on it with a auto position engraved on it. Also I geuss it does have an older Bushy telestock on it. But basically the upper is what makes it a go to gun. 12" light profile barrel with a SWR suppressor welded on to it to make it a non SBR, Adams Arms gas piston kit and TA01 optic on it with iron night sights on top of it. The only thing I don't have for it yet is some sort of lighting mounted on it. I toyed with the idea of mounting an espresso maker on the bayonet lug but I don't like coffee. |
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Man! I'm really sorry to hear about you job, Bro' but on the bright side, you do have a very marketable skill.
Me, I'm just a dumbass extruder operator! Where I work, all the welders, electricians, and machinists make $3.00-$4.00 an hour more than top machine operators. To answer your OQ, VAAR beat me to it but, I really like the 653 too. Ultimate KISS, reliability and (I've heard) doesn't batter itself as bad as the 16" bbl ARs.Just my .02
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My SHTF rifle: http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg141/dab969/DSC09022Small.jpg For those that wish to emulate me, it is a Sabre lower, J&T chrome 1-7 twist 14.5" upper with a perm-extended A2 FH, Troy MRF-DI handguards, Magpul MOE Grip, Magpul CTR stock, Surefire light, 4X ACOG on a LaRue mount, and some cheap crappy VFG. 
Where's the Retro? 
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My SHTF rifle: http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg141/dab969/DSC09022Small.jpg For those that wish to emulate me, it is a Sabre lower, J&T chrome 1-7 twist 14.5" upper with a perm-extended A2 FH, Troy MRF-DI handguards, Magpul MOE Grip, Magpul CTR stock, Surefire light, 4X ACOG on a LaRue mount, and some cheap crappy VFG. I'm sure you're quite proud of that rifle, but wrong forum, friend. I don't care too much for the magpul furniture, though I know they're coveted on these boards. My personal choice for an M4 type build for SHTF would be a Colt lower, 4 pos stock, A1 or Tango Down PG, 14.5" barrel w/ perma fh, KAC RAS, Larue SPR mount with a Widefield 1 3/4 x 5 in it, Arms 40 for back up irons. Anyhow, to get this thread back on track and so I can say I didn't contribute to it going off kilter, I'd probably go with either 
or the middle rifle in this pic 
Excuse the ugly top carbine (cheap build), and greased up garage carpet. |
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The women in my life can handle the CAR-stocked carbine AR's fine, but the 20" rifles are too much for them mentally and physically. They like the "shorties". I too am the patriarch of a group of small statured women and boys. I would have to agree and go with the carbine if only one was allowed. If two or more a 20" for myself and carbines all around for the others. Those responses kind of surprise me. My wife is an anti (but let me join the gun club, so maybe coming around) and my daughter is too young to shoot AR's, but I've always felt that retro rifles were the best handling of the lot. I love shooting my 601, 603 and 604 replica's. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - SHTF Retro choice (Page 1 of 2)
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