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Posted: 11/10/2008 12:28:56 PM EDT
| There was a thread on this, I don't know who started it, but now I can't find it. I thought it looked cool, midlength handguards with one of those XM177 flash hiders up against the FSB. I didn't know if they were using a midlength or carbine gas system, but I wanted to build one when I saw it. Anyone know a source for a barrel like that, or just a link to the thread? Thanks. |
While I can't take 100% credit for the idea, I was planning on one a few years back...
*my photoshop rendition* as far as gas length - even if the moderator wasn't a slipover, the dwell is the same as a 10.0" barrel, and those can be made to run quite reliably. Slipover would give you a little more barrel to work with, but might need a custom moderator. Most reliable (imo) would be a carbine gas system. IF a lo-pro block can fit cleanly under standard midlength handguards. Then add a dummy FSB. More lathe work on the barrel, but could prove as reliable as the average carbine. Now get to work! 
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I'm building the exact thing right now: E1 flavor on a LW barrel. I placed an order for a LW Wilson 16" mid-length barrel last week through RRA and received an email from them saying their barrels were back-ordered "indefinitely". I'm trying to cancel the order and dig another up from somewhere else because I can't work with "indefinitely". 
I'll let you lads know how this build goes but it may be a while before I get the barrel and work done on it. |
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I just ordered this from CMMG:
CMMG 16 Lightweight Mid-Length Barrel (No Delta Ring Assembly, No Sling Loop and Rivet, Gas Tube and Roll Pin, No Hider, No Dura Coat, Standard Front Sight Base, Round Handguard Cap, Standard Mid-Length Tapered Handguard, 1/7 Twist) Probably should have got it in 1/12, I have a lot of XM193. The damage was $306.85. Hopefully they have it in stock. ETA: I'll try it with a BM slipover first, and if it doesn't look right, I'll send it to ADCO with one of 45Bravo's jobbies for a chop & pin. |
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I just ordered this from CMMG: CMMG 16 Lightweight Mid-Length Barrel (No Delta Ring Assembly, No Sling Loop and Rivet, Gas Tube and Roll Pin, No Hider, No Dura Coat, Standard Front Sight Base, Round Handguard Cap, Standard Mid-Length Tapered Handguard, 1/7 Twist) Probably should have got it in 1/12, I have a lot of XM193. The damage was $306.85. Hopefully they have it in stock. ETA: I'll try it with a BM slipover first, and if it doesn't look right, I'll send it to ADCO with one of 45Bravo's jobbies for a chop & pin. That's $100 more than my damage but I'm willing to pay that much if they have it in stock. Hopefully I can cancel with RRA; I'm gonna give CMMG a call tomorrow to see if they have it in stock. |
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While I can't take 100% credit for the idea, I was planning on one a few years back... http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg169/5beans/XMid177Rev.jpg *my photoshop rendition* as far as gas length - even if the moderator wasn't a slipover, the dwell is the same as a 10.0" barrel, and those can be made to run quite reliably. Slipover would give you a little more barrel to work with, but might need a custom moderator. Most reliable (imo) would be a carbine gas system. IF a lo-pro block can fit cleanly under standard midlength handguards. Then add a dummy FSB. More lathe work on the barrel, but could prove as reliable as the average carbine. Now get to work!
nice pic
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There was a thread on this, I don't know who started it, but now I can't find it. I thought it looked cool, midlength handguards with one of those XM177 flash hiders up against the FSB. I didn't know if they were using a midlength or carbine gas system, but I wanted to build one when I saw it. Anyone know a source for a barrel like that, or just a link to the thread? Thanks. link to my mid-length thread And I'm still lookin' for a clamp-on fsb! |
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And I'm still lookin' for a clamp-on fsb! And now... So am I. By the way, I contacted Armalite about the one you posted a link to. They don't know when they'll get any more, which probably means they won't. Just make your own - I bought one from Superior for my SDM-R build, and it is just a regular FSB drilled and tapped for set screws. |
I'm wondering if a 607 type moderator run up against the FSB on a Middy would be non-NFA? (pinned of course). This had been brought up before, and I always liked the idea. Funny, Middies always look better to me in pics than carbines. Carbines seem to have LOOOONG barrel exposure in pics, but my 14.5" ltwt seems much shorter in person. I like the looks of it, but I'm thinking a middy build with a 607 FH would be pretty sweet - especially if it were built as a 607, with triangular middy HGs.  I'm sure I'd receive a beating for it though. 
I just picked up another C7 upper along with a lower I just got - been thinking it'd make a great 'rat carbine' but was unsure about what barrel to use. Was considering an M4, but am now wondering about going for a middy. Thanks for once again getting me off on another tangent VAAR! |
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Hmmm...an XM177E1 barrel is 10" and it runs up to the FSB, but 1/2" is threads. My XM flash hider is 4.25". Subtracting 1/2" for the threads, the flash hider gives you 3.75". 16 - 3.75 is 12.25. Therefore, the midlength FSB has to be 2.75" further out than the carbine one for it to be 16" and have the FH against the FSB. I think. My head hurts. Anyone know how much longer a midlength is?
ETA: they don't look that much longer... |
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I've already jived with Bravo about it and I'll be using a 4.5" moderator, which should be enough to bring it out to 16" by our math... If that is the case, a 4.5" moderator would look good - not too much different from what we already have. Hopefully, I'll get my barrel quickly and be able to measure it. I'll post an update as soon as I get it. |
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If that is the case, a 4.5" moderator would look good - not too much different from what we already have. Hopefully, I'll get my barrel quickly and be able to measure it. I'll post an update as soon as I get it. I measured from the front edge of the gas-block on my Armalite 16" middy and those were the conclusions I came up with. The 4.5" E1 moderators are exactly what we'll need. Only problem is the gas-block I was measuring by isn't the standard FSB, but a railed deal. However I believe the measurements are the same... My order with RRA has been canceled so I'm hoping I can grab up one of these CMMG deals without waiting two years. I tried calling them today, VAAR, but the lines were all tied up so I'm just going to email them. We'll see what happens... |
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I meant to post this some time ago...someone here had mid-length mixed up with carbine... http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b390/FrogBait4/Mil/hndgrds2.jpg VAAR - If you need a set, let me know... I'm in the process of doing something similar too. You found any difference in midlength handguards, or are they all about the same? I'm looking at the Rock River middy handguards but everything looks like they might taper from an M4 diameter at the receiver down to carbine diameter at the FSB. |
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You found any difference in midlength handguards, or are they all about the same? I'm looking at the Rock River middy handguards but everything looks like they might taper from an M4 diameter at the receiver down to carbine diameter at the FSB. The midlength set I have pictured tapers from 2 3/8" to 2" (widest portions), same as the rifle length handguard in the pic. The carbine HGs in the pic are 2 3/16" to 1 15/16" taper... IIRC, the midlengths came from Sherluk several years ago. YMMV... 
I don't have (or want) M4 HGs, so I have no idea how they measure up... |
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You found any difference in midlength handguards, or are they all about the same? I'm looking at the Rock River middy handguards but everything looks like they might taper from an M4 diameter at the receiver down to carbine diameter at the FSB. The midlength set I have pictured tapers from 2 3/8" to 2" (widest portions), same as the rifle length handguard in the pic. The carbine HGs in the pic are 2 3/16" to 1 15/16" taper... IIRC, the midlengths came from Sherluk several years ago. YMMV...
I don't have (or want) M4 HGs, so I have no idea how they measure up... Oh, they're not that bad , Besides if you dont buy and set up your M4s now, in the future they will cost as much as retro parts today...
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You found any difference in midlength handguards, or are they all about the same? I'm looking at the Rock River middy handguards but everything looks like they might taper from an M4 diameter at the receiver down to carbine diameter at the FSB. The midlength set I have pictured tapers from 2 3/8" to 2" (widest portions), same as the rifle length handguard in the pic. The carbine HGs in the pic are 2 3/16" to 1 15/16" taper... IIRC, the midlengths came from Sherluk several years ago. YMMV...
I don't have (or want) M4 HGs, so I have no idea how they measure up... Yeh, I'm trying to find a set that follows the taper of the CAR profile. |
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Oh, they're not that bad , Besides if you dont buy and set up your M4s now, in the future they will cost as much as retro parts today... you'll have to meet shady characters in dark alleys and pay heroin prices for AR parts...
Fixed it for 'ya. ya got me....  ....and I thought I escape communism when My parents fled from our home nation.
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If that is the case, a 4.5" moderator would look good - not too much different from what we already have. Hopefully, I'll get my barrel quickly and be able to measure it. I'll post an update as soon as I get it. I measured from the front edge of the gas-block on my Armalite 16" middy and those were the conclusions I came up with. The 4.5" E1 moderators are exactly what we'll need. Only problem is the gas-block I was measuring by isn't the standard FSB, but a railed deal. However I believe the measurements are the same... My order with RRA has been canceled so I'm hoping I can grab up one of these CMMG deals without waiting two years. I tried calling them today, VAAR, but the lines were all tied up so I'm just going to email them. We'll see what happens... 
this shows a 5" slipover. It's about 1/4" longer than it needs to be. |
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This shows a 5" slipover. It's about 1/4" longer than it needs to be. So you're indicating that a 4.5" moderator will be a 1/4" too short, which means we're really looking at a 4.75" moderator. I can live with that... BTW, VAAR, Jeff from CMMG said that their lightweight middies are getting FSBs cut and should be ready in four to six weeks. I just sent out my order form to NDS for my lower but finding somebody who's got an LPK in-stock might be near impossible.
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If that is the case, a 4.5" moderator would look good - not too much different from what we already have. Hopefully, I'll get my barrel quickly and be able to measure it. I'll post an update as soon as I get it. I measured from the front edge of the gas-block on my Armalite 16" middy and those were the conclusions I came up with. The 4.5" E1 moderators are exactly what we'll need. Only problem is the gas-block I was measuring by isn't the standard FSB, but a railed deal. However I believe the measurements are the same... My order with RRA has been canceled so I'm hoping I can grab up one of these CMMG deals without waiting two years. I tried calling them today, VAAR, but the lines were all tied up so I'm just going to email them. We'll see what happens... 
this shows a 5" slipover. It's about 1/4" longer than it needs to be. I think if you move it up to allow the slots for the FH to be at the end of the barrel, you will find that it fits better. |
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If that is the case, a 4.5" moderator would look good - not too much different from what we already have. Hopefully, I'll get my barrel quickly and be able to measure it. I'll post an update as soon as I get it. I measured from the front edge of the gas-block on my Armalite 16" middy and those were the conclusions I came up with. The 4.5" E1 moderators are exactly what we'll need. Only problem is the gas-block I was measuring by isn't the standard FSB, but a railed deal. However I believe the measurements are the same... My order with RRA has been canceled so I'm hoping I can grab up one of these CMMG deals without waiting two years. I tried calling them today, VAAR, but the lines were all tied up so I'm just going to email them. We'll see what happens... http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s147/crackedcornish/IMG_0069.jpg]http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s147/crackedcornish/IMG_0069.jpg]http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s147/crackedcornish/IMG_0069.jpg this shows a 5" slipover. It's about 1/4" longer than it needs to be. I think if you move it up to allow the slots for the FH to be at the end of the barrel, you will find that it fits better. But then it won't be up against the fsb the way it should, and the overall length will be greater than needed. Besides that, in the Kommie state I live in, I can't have a FH or a Bayo Lug
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But then it won't be up against the fsb the way it should, and the overall length will be greater than needed. Besides that, in the Kommie state I live in, I can't have a FH or a Bayo Lug Then look into a pinned 607 fake moderator type. No ports, no flashider? Y'know, the way they counterbore the barrels on the long distance shooter AR's, It's one of those, it keeps the crosswinds from upsetting your ballistics. |
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So you're indicating that a 4.5" moderator will be a 1/4" too short, which means we're really looking at a 4.75" moderator. I can live with that... BTW, VAAR, Jeff from CMMG said that their lightweight middies are getting FSBs cut and should be ready in four to six weeks. I just sent out my order form to NDS for my lower but finding somebody who's got an LPK in-stock might be near impossible.
Oh, man, I have to wait six weeks? I was hoping to get it next week. I guess that means we'll have to get a 4.5" or 4.75" mod? Double crap, I didn't want to get a custom mod. Who's doing those now, are the choices Pat or Kurt? ETA: SG has DPMS LPK's in stock for $49.47 (member price). I just bought a couple this week, and got them already... |
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I guess that means we'll have to get a 4.5" or 4.75" mod? Double crap, I didn't want to get a custom mod. Who's doing those now, are the choices Pat or Kurt? Well, I'm just gonna send my barrel to Pat and let him work his magic. I've already swapped about thirty emails with him so he knows about the build and what to expect. And hanks for the LPK link! |
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