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12/18/2015 1:34:49 PM EDT
Friend of mine in MD is asking question about a pistol build.  He was told that if overall length is 26" he can have a pistol buffer tube and a vertical foregrip.  I feel like this is wrong.  Can anyone point me in the right direction as far as legality goes? Thanks

12/18/2015 1:49:05 PM EDT
[#1]
he is correct
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_122/458387_ATF_Rule_on_Adding_a_Vertical_Fore_Grip_to_a_Handgun__Specifically_the_AR15_Pistol_.html
mine is a 10.5 barrel extended buffer tube and end of tube to muzzle threads is 27.5 inches about
12/18/2015 2:03:38 PM EDT
[#2]
http://www.franklinarmory.com/XO-26_Letter__c_.pdf
12/18/2015 2:03:47 PM EDT
[#3]
A pistol (no buttstock) over 26" OAL becomes classified as a firearm when installing a VFG.
Remove the VFG and it returns to classification as a pistol.
12/18/2015 2:08:10 PM EDT
[#4]
such a stupid law but makes it a lot more comfortable with my sig brace and I love the law
12/18/2015 2:12:02 PM EDT
[#5]
OK so with an overall length of 26.5 inches and a vfg could you also add a collapsible stock or does that make it a SBR?
12/18/2015 2:26:35 PM EDT
[#6]


Quote History
Quoted:



OK so with an overall length of 26.5 inches and a vfg could you also add a collapsible stock or does that make it a SBR?
View Quote





 
That would be an SBR.


 



Read the Franklin armory ATF letter linked above, it covers the issue pretty well.
12/18/2015 2:39:39 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote History
Quoted:
OK so with an overall length of 26.5 inches and a vfg could you also add a collapsible stock or does that make it a SBR?
View Quote



If you read the Franklin Armory letter, it steps through the various classifications and how you arrive at the general "firearm" classification.

It addresses the other permutations as well.
12/18/2015 5:55:06 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote History
Quoted:
such a stupid law but makes it a lot more comfortable with my sig brace and I love the law
View Quote


It's not a law. It's an ATF interpretation based on the 81 year old definitions in a law.

- OS
12/18/2015 10:05:40 PM EDT
[#9]

Quote History
Quoted:
It's not a law. It's an ATF interpretation based on the 81 year old definitions in a law.



- OS
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Quote History
Quoted:



Quoted:

such a stupid law but makes it a lot more comfortable with my sig brace and I love the law




It's not a law. It's an ATF interpretation based on the 81 year old definitions in a law.



- OS
It's not even that. It is the ATF presumption of the concealability of a firearm based on the 26" OAL found in the SBR definition.

And even that is out the window if the firearm in question is actually concealed on the person.



Regardless of the OAL a firearm with a VFG becomes a AOW when actually concealed. But then THAT is based on the ATF interpretation of an 81 year old law!



And the fun never stops....





 
12/19/2015 12:30:46 PM EDT
[#10]
And it's not a bad interpretation.  Aside from machineguns,  the NFA is all about weapons that are disguised or concealed.  Remember, pistol and revolvers were originally in the NFA.  The original writers didn't want any firearm that was disguised or concealed to not be registered.  So anything that you could sneaky kill someone with needed to be registered (somehow 26" overall length crossed the sneaky line).  That included suppressors since they disguise the report of a weapon.  Think about what that would have done to Colt and Smith & Wesson at $200 a pop back in 1934 (somewhere between $3,000 and $8,000 a gun in todays dollars depending on which index you use).

Obviously, pistols and revolvers got lobbied out of the Act (actually exempted from the act), so anything that is concealed or disguised that isn't a pistol or revolver (or rifle) can get you in trouble.  The only problem comes with pistols with two stocks.  That throws a problem for the definitions as written so administrative enforcement rules evolved to deal with that.  

(e) Any other weapon

The term “any other weapon” means any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive, a pistol or revolver having a barrel with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell, weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire. Such term shall not include a pistol or a revolver having a rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made, or intended to be fired from the shoulder and not capable of firing fixed ammunition.




12/19/2015 10:51:47 PM EDT
[#11]
Your friend really needs to check the laws of The Peoples Republic of Maryland,
12/21/2015 8:29:22 AM EDT
[#12]
thanks for the info.  he is checking his laws now.
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